Jump to content

ERS Deployment - F1 2020

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Hi everyone,

Sorry guys, 'Codies silence' on the matter is purely because I've been mega busy with BETA-related stuff the past few days, as my league race 'performance' clearly showed. We've had a record amounts of applicants, and we've more data than ever to sort through and evaluate, it's taking myself and a lot of members a fair bit of time.

On the ERS. we have taken feedback and information directly from F1 drivers and teams on how the system is used and deployed in real-life. We have been told from the teams/drivers that the current 2019 ERS management system was far too complicated and something that the F1 drivers do not engage in to this level. Therefore, we have made changes to create a system closer to real-life deployment strategies.

Also, quick note here, some teams may have slight differences in how it is used, and we've been tasked to create a universally-accepted, but closer to reality, model. It is something that is due for further testing soon enough for successful BETA applicants (this will be available shortly) and one of the key things we would look for in review in Week One of testing. 

Thank you for the clarification and cant wait for the game to fully release 🙌🏽

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

All eyes will be on qualifying mode, as we need the abilty to abandon a lap and start again on another lap without all our ers disappearing. Also in free practice we need to be able to run at qualifying ers to practice our qualifying runs as braking points change with extra ers speed etc 

Edited by TomAAA
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Hi everyone,

Sorry guys, 'Codies silence' on the matter is purely because I've been mega busy with BETA-related stuff the past few days, as my league race 'performance' clearly showed. We've had a record amounts of applicants, and we've more data than ever to sort through and evaluate, it's taking myself and a lot of members a fair bit of time.

On the ERS. we have taken feedback and information directly from F1 drivers and teams on how the system is used and deployed in real-life. We have been told from the teams/drivers that the current 2019 ERS management system was far too complicated and something that the F1 drivers do not engage in to this level. Therefore, we have made changes to create a system closer to real-life deployment strategies.

Also, quick note here, some teams may have slight differences in how it is used, and we've been tasked to create a universally-accepted, but closer to reality, model. It is something that is due for further testing soon enough for successful BETA applicants (this will be available shortly) and one of the key things we would look for in review in Week One of testing. 

Thank's a lot! it is a big relief that this is indeed still subject to testing. 

Although i do only partially agree.. the real drivers do not engage with it 'while driving' as much. (in terms of clicking) 
But they do while setting up the car. and with different modes and settings there is still a lot more control than we seem to be getting this time around. 
Also: We are playing as the drivers AND the team in this game.. and the team DOES engage with it on this level. 

A realistic approach would be to have us make 3 different modes in the setups (for every part of the track specify exactly the ers mapping) 
This does look like it was just the easy way out... and removes a lot of strategy from the game if it's just the same for everyone. 

Can you also maybe explain how we're gonna make clear to the auto ers when we're backing out of a hotlap and want to start recharging for the next one? Or how the auto ers will know we are not looking to overtake the car ahead this straight, and not waste the ers? There are big fears this auto ers will force us to do a lot of things we wouldn't want to (like pitting because the auto ers is wasting it all during a lap you backed out off) Also it's a bit sad that we can't see the ERS mode the ai is in, instead we see the 1.... of being in ai mode.
 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually prefer the new system as it’s much more realistic and will be easier to manage in a race now we can look at just fuel and tyre wear more often.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, cpayne32 said:

I actually prefer the new system as it’s much more realistic and will be easier to manage in a race now we can look at just fuel and tyre wear more often.

It all depends on qualifying and practice ers, as it may be unrealistic now, as its unclear how you back out of a hotlap or how you practice qualifying pace in practice sessions without the ability to switch on/off qualifying ers. 

Edited by TomAAA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there was already auto in the game for people who didn't want to bother. 
Also it was very easy to get into your muscle memory. 

This system is not realistic at all too.. people just keep saying it is because real f1 drivers don't have to click as often. 
Giving US control over the preset ai would be reaslistic. (in terms of there being different modes AND in terms of US deciding the mapping in the first place, either by setup screen or by doing an example lap for the ai) Now it looks like they just practically removed ers management and replaced it with need for speed nitro. 

Maybe not clicking as much is more realistic. but having no control except for boost is not realistic at all.

  • Like 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

It all depends on qualifying and practice ers, as it may be unrealistic now, as its unclear how you back out of a hotlap or how you practice qualifying pace in practice without the ability to switch on/off qualifying ers. 

That is a slight worry for me as well but hopefully we will find out soon enough 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

Thank's a lot! it is a big relief that this is indeed still subject to testing. 

Although i do only partially agree.. the real drivers do not engage with it 'while driving' as much. (in terms of clicking) 
But they do while setting up the car. and with different modes and settings there is still a lot more control than we seem to be getting this time around. 
Also: We are playing as the drivers AND the team in this game.. and the team DOES engage with it on this level. 

A realistic approach would be to have us make 3 different modes in the setups (for every part of the track specify exactly the ers mapping) 
This does look like it was just the easy way out... and removes a lot of strategy from the game if it's just the same for everyone. 

Can you also maybe explain how we're gonna make clear to the auto ers when we're backing out of a hotlap and want to start recharging for the next one? Or how the auto ers will know we are not looking to overtake the car ahead this straight, and not waste the ers? There are big fears this auto ers will force us to do a lot of things we wouldn't want to (like pitting because the auto ers is wasting it all during a lap you backed out off) Also it's a bit sad that we can't see the ERS mode the ai is in, instead we see the 1.... of being in ai mode.
 

At the moment @Bicarda, I'm going to say that more details will be available in the BETA for the testers, and we can then can action feedback and give more info out too. We have de-briefs ready for BETA week one, and will go into the detail we are looking for for testing. By the bolded text, we meant that drivers do not have 6 modes they can freely change at any time they wish. 

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Hi everyone,

Sorry guys, 'Codies silence' on the matter is purely because I've been mega busy with BETA-related stuff the past few days, as my league race 'performance' clearly showed. We've had a record amounts of applicants, and we've more data than ever to sort through and evaluate, it's taking myself and a lot of members a fair bit of time.

On the ERS. we have taken feedback and information directly from F1 drivers and teams on how the system is used and deployed in real-life. We have been told from the teams/drivers that the current 2019 ERS management system was far too complicated and something that the F1 drivers do not engage in to this level. Therefore, we have made changes to create a system closer to real-life deployment strategies.

Also, quick note here, some teams may have slight differences in how it is used, and we've been tasked to create a universally-accepted, but closer to reality, model. It is something that is due for further testing soon enough for successful BETA applicants (this will be available shortly) and one of the key things we would look for in review in Week One of testing. 

I understand it. The ERS in 2019 was incorrect in the way it was used. But who said that ERS modes should be micromanaged and not used as presets (which would have been one of the closest option if developed).

The ERS was just incorrect in its performances but not unrealistic.

For the same logic drivers do not change fuel from corner to corner or put higher mode just for a straight. So fuel should be automatic too and the user should focus more on lifting and coasting to save fuel.

The ERS system is complicated but look at the other companies. Assetto Corsa had a recharge mode, low mode, aggressive mode, overtake mode and hot lap with options to set parameters of the harvesting phase. It is not far away from how Codemasters brought ERS into the game (before the compatitive gaming made it micromanaging).

Project Cars made the ERS controllable through a button to let the user decide the deployment.

I think codemasters was on the right track and was unfairly criticized. Barry, yours ERS system was not far away from the ERS of assetto corsa which has been always reguarded as the best recreation of hybrids....

The old era system was attacked unfairly....

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

At the moment @Bicarda, I'm going to say that more details will be available in the BETA for the testers, and we can then can action feedback and give more info out too. We have de-briefs ready for BETA week one, and will go into the detail we are looking for for testing. By the bolded text, we meant that drivers do not have 6 modes they can freely change at any time they wish. 

 

They also do not have an AI mode... it goes both ways 🙈

At least they have control. which is what we had and presumably don't have anymore. 

But it's at least good to know that this will at least be a part of the beta test and you want feedback on it.

 

Edited by Bicarda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MarcoFcb97 said:

@BarryBL Have you all Beta Testers ?

They haven’t decided yet. They got a record number of applications this year and advised it will take some time for the team to review then all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

One of the best things of 2019 was the ERS managment for me. As playing online I would do this trick many times. Would let the car behind pass me, because while in the lead I have to manage the ERS more to get away. But I usually let the car through and than let him use all of the ers, would sit behind for some 3-4 laps while having DRS and using low or none ERS mode. With staying in the striking distance I than choose one lap for all out attack on the car infront, using the overtake mode. With passing him I can than push for 2-3 laps and usually managed to get away from the DRS. That was the thing that made f1 2019 amazing. Hopefully we could still have at least low-medium-high ers mode using is manually and an strat mode 9 (overtake button). This is all I want.

Edited by weltmeister2211
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, weltmeister2211 said:

One of the best things of 2019 was the ERS managment for me. As playing online I would do this trick many times. Would let the car behind pass, because while in the lead I have to manage the ERS more to get away. But I usually let the car through and than let him use all of the ers, would sit behind for some 3-4 laps while having DRS and using low or none ERS mode. With staying in the striking distance I than choose one lap for all out attack on the car infront, using the overtake mode. With passing him I can than push for 2-3 laps and usually managed to get away from the DRS. That was the thing that made f1 2019 amazing. Hopefully we could still have at least low-medium-high ers mode using is manually and an strat mode 9 (overtake button). This is all I want.

That’s the same tactic I was using. Although it’s different for me on tracks like Monaco and Baku where I’m running none for most of the laps so it doesn’t always work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah couldn't see that video earlier up to see it in action as it was a private video but have seen a glimpse of it on IntoTheBarrier's video. Looks like a button press to toggle overtake on which then changes the HUD option to 'DISABLE' where you need to press the same button to disable overtake, which then changes the HUD option to 'OVERTAKE'. Can't see how any other mode would be selected other than this.

 

I do wonder if ERS will be tied into your fuel mix selected so if you go to MAX or RICH, ERS is deployed more and if you go to LEAN, it doesn't deploy but harvests more? That would sort practice/qualy laps out (sort of) but not if you want to save fuel in race but use full ERS (not overtake that is) to help with your speed.

 

Just baffled how this will be working with all the possible scenarios it would be needed in??

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ERS with micro management, switch ERS modes dozens of times in one lap--->people complain because it's not realistic (even Lando Norris did, and I think he knows a little bit more than us)

ERS with no micro management which I guess has been adopted according to the drivers' feedback----> people complain because they want that back

I say get your s**t together and think about what you really want

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3
  • Agree 4
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, TheWalker17 said:

ERS with micro management, switch ERS modes dozens of times in one lap--->people complain because it's not realistic (even Lando Norris did, and I think he knows a little bit more than us)

ERS with no micro management which I guess has been adopted according to the drivers' feedback----> people complain because they want that back

I say get your s**t together and think about what you really want

People that didn't want it already had auto. 

Everybody knew changing it 8 times on a single straight wasn't realistic. 
But don't act like total ai control is the only alternative lol. 

At least if WE setup the ers mapping ourselves (and there be different presets) we get to NOT change it that often but STILL retain control. 

What we had wasn't the most realistic, and a bit labour intensive, 
But what we get now is LESS realistic, hence why people complain. 

Edited by Bicarda
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Guys, do a test. Try a race offline against the AI for a distance of 50%/100%. During the race use mode 2 as your base mode. Mode 1 when the state of charge is low. Mode 3 to catch the car ahead or to perform a undercut/overcut. Mode 4 for overtake. Don not use 0 or 5 cause they are ers off/recharge and hot lap. Use each mode for multiple laps. Use fuel modes the same way.

Then come back and quote me to say that it's unrealistic or not enough to keep pace. You will probably quote me to say that it is realistic, fun, it allows you to focus on the driving...BUT IT MAKES YOU SLOWER AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO COMPETE ONLINE WHIT DRIVERS WHO MICROMANAGE ERS.

At that point it will be clear where the actual problem lies. But please stop telling me that micromanaging was required. It wasn't. Offline in a realistic/simulation type of career/race it isn't.

This is the closest experience you can have with ERS to real life...

Edited by sirio994
  • Like 2
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sirio994 said:

Guys, do a test. Try a race offline against the AI for a distance of 50%/100%. During the race use mode 2 as your base mode. Mode 1 when the state of charge is low. Mode 3 to catch the car ahead or to perform a undercut/overcut. Mode 4 for overtake. Don not use 0 or 5 cause they are ers off/recharge and hot lap. Use each mode for multiple laps. Use fuel modes the same way.

Then come back and quote me to say that it's unrealistic or not enough to keep pace. You will probably quote me to say that it is realistic, fun, it allows you to focus on the driving...BUT IT MAKES YOU SLOWER AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO COMPETE ONLINE WHIT DRIVERS WHO MICROMANAGE ERS.

At that point it will be clear where the actual problem lies. But please stop telling me that micromanaging was required. It wasn't. Offline in a realistic/simulation type of career/race it isn't.

This is the closest experience you can have with ERS to real life...

Noone says micromanaging was required. but control is. 

I really don't get where you see people writing it's the old system we want. (although it is better than this) 
It is control we want.. preferably with a lot less clicks than before. 

What we are getting is a horrible oversimplification that we have NO control over setting up before a race, as the real teams do. 
And just a turbo mode.

I think everybody was in agreement change was needed. but just dumbing it down like this and force everyone on AI mode is just lazy and sad and unrealistic too. 
IN real life there is no AI mode.. .there are multiple modes that they map THEMSELVES.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

Noone says micromanaging was required. but control is. 

I really don't get where you see people writing it's the old system we want. (although it is better than this) 
It is control we want.. preferably with a lot less clicks than before. 

What we are getting is a horrible oversimplification that we have NO control over setting up before a race, as the real teams do. 
And just a turbo mode.

I think everybody was in agreement change was needed. but just dumbing it down like this and force everyone on AI mode is just lazy and sad and unrealistic too. 
IN real life there is no AI mode.. .there are multiple modes that they map THEMSELVES.

Exacly. The ERS management i was talking about was what we could have with the three modes adjustable manually. I don't want the old system.

I was actually answering to those who said that AUTO is realistic.

I was inviting them to test the old system with with a realistic management/approach to understand how real life ers management could look like.

The old system isn't accurate but using it that way can give people an idea of what a further development in that direction could make the ERS look like...

Edited by sirio994
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take it from this change that ERS management in FP1-3 will be gone. Will it be replaced by something else or the points system adjusted?

I use auto ERS anyway as managing fuel is enough for me! As some have said, it's like a return to the KERS function but slightly more complex, which I like!

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like the actual ERS modes,  I feel more active in the cockpit, not only steering and and use pedals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

And who says that in 2020 they didn't do it in a way that ERS practice program has an effect? So when you complete a program, while using ERS as you wish. If you pass it, your ERS will be programmed as you used it in that run. And with that you will have enough energy every lap. Although I would prefer solution to program it from monitor in pits.

 

On top of that, as we saw there is a switch that puts you in highest possible mode. That highest possible mode is probably what is used for qualy too. If you decide to back off from your qualy run you turn it off and you will get charged battery for your next lap.

Edited by XanderSJX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, XanderSJX said:

And who says that in 2020 they didn't do it in a way that ERS practice program has an effect? So when you complete a program, while using ERS as you wish. If you pass it, your ERS will be programmed as you used it in that run. And with that you will have enough energy every lap. Although I would prefer solution to program it from monitor in pits.

 

On top of that, as we saw there is a switch that puts you in highest possible mode. That highest possible mode is probably what is used for qualy too. If you decide to back off from your qualy run you turn it off and you will get charged battery for your next lap.

That is, i fear, incorrect. 

There is no way to change it anyway so also no way to 'teach' it in practice (let alone online there are no practice programs) 
Also the only switch you have is for mode 2. going into mode 3 (in quali) seems to be automatic (and i fear irreversible) 

It really seems to be, ai, or burn it all. mode 3 is just like hotlap.. burn it all a bit slower. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×