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ERS Deployment - F1 2020

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Just now, Bicarda said:

That is, i fear, incorrect. 

There is no way to change it anyway so also no way to 'teach' it in practice (let alone online there are no practice programs) 
Also the only switch you have is for mode 2. going into mode 3 (in quali) seems to be automatic (and i fear irreversible) 

It really seems to be, ai, or burn it all. mode 3 is just like hotlap.. burn it all a bit slower. 

I agree partly, I have edited my post with favorite implementation being to program it from monitor in pitstop and save it as part of setup.

For mode 3, that would be a big game breaker if it is not possible to switch it off when Q run is aborted.

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Posted (edited)

The solution theoretically would be simple. Considering the old system, they could make:

Mode 0 so slow to discourage users from using it unless they are in recharge situation (qualify/race going for the fastest lap)

Mode 4 converted into the overtake button with a deployment so high that would prevent users from micromanaging it and force them to use it when it's really needed (like in real life)

Mode 5 as hotlap (only available in qualifying like fuel 4 Max)

 

Eventually mode 1, 2 and 3 compressed a bit to a point that would make micromanaging of the three modes in a single lap useless or not a big advantage and it would also allow users who wants to play with auto ERS to be competive. Maybe situationally weak but competitive enough overall.

In theory it's not that hard to make it realistic and functional. The problem is that it so easy to theorize and so hard to code it without the risk of leaving grey areas....

 

EDIT: If I worked for Codemasters, that is what I would do with the idea in mind of implementing a specific mapping in the future (an option in the setup menu with 2 settings)

Something like two options):

Deployment balance during the lap:

Straights/balanced deployment

 

Straight line speed deployment:

Acceleration/top speed

Edited by sirio994
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11 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

That is, i fear, incorrect. 

There is no way to change it anyway so also no way to 'teach' it in practice (let alone online there are no practice programs) 
Also the only switch you have is for mode 2. going into mode 3 (in quali) seems to be automatic (and i fear irreversible) 

It really seems to be, ai, or burn it all. mode 3 is just like hotlap.. burn it all a bit slower. 

What is burn it all? I still see there is a max deploy limit per lap which I assume would be mainly tied into what is used when toggling Overtake on. I guess your battery could be fully depleted if you left Overtake on for a few laps?? A bit like you could when in mode 4 or 5 currently.

 

I'm assuming the AI part of the new ERS is to keep your battery at optimal levels and just allow the user to determine when to ignore harvesting or optimal battery level by flipping Overtake on or off? I really don't see the AI part of this using all your battery leaving you no way to use Overtake at all as your battery is dead.

 

I'd imagine maybe keeping the battery around 80% or above throughout where the AI has been mapped to deploy and harvest at points around the lap to maintain this level. The rest of the 80% would be at your disposal via Overtake. Drain it all and when you toggle Overtake off, the AI will look to harvest more than deploy to get back to around 80% no? Sounds good to me (numbers of course just theoretical).

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, martbloke said:

What is burn it all? I still see there is a max deploy limit per lap which I assume would be mainly tied into what is used when toggling Overtake on. I guess your battery could be fully depleted if you left Overtake on for a few laps?? A bit like you could when in mode 4 or 5 currently.

 

I'm assuming the AI part of the new ERS is to keep your battery at optimal levels and just allow the user to determine when to ignore harvesting or optimal battery level by flipping Overtake on or off? I really don't see the AI part of this using all your battery leaving you no way to use Overtake at all as your battery is dead.

 

I'd imagine maybe keeping the battery around 80% or above throughout where the AI has been mapped to deploy and harvest at points around the lap to maintain this level. The rest of the 80% would be at your disposal via Overtake. Drain it all and when you toggle Overtake off, the AI will look to harvest more than deploy to get back to around 80% no? Sounds good to me (numbers of course just theoretical).

 

 

 

Except that it doesn't know when you want to charge and when you do not want to charge. or when you want to deploy any at all.  
Also overtake drains your battery really fast. The video i linked to earlier got set to private, which is sad, but overtake drains the battery incredibly fast. It won't be a couple of laps, more like if you leave it on for a straight and a half you'll be out of deployment for that lap. 

In ai mode it charges rather rapidly and it probaby doesn't know what phase of the race you are in too. (Also there isn't really any proof of the modes actually changing at all cause all we see is the 1) 

There is just no control anymore except going to overtake which is bad. 
WE should be able to set up the ers mapping for every track. and even then should be able to have multiple presets to choose from for different situations.  (that we can all edit ourselves as part of the setup) if you go watch the onboards of f1 drivers they get asked every other lap, but sometimes multiple times a lap to switch a mode. because everything IS constantly changing and a one size fits all mode will be just bad (apart from boring) 

You say 'the ai will look to harvest more than deploy to get back to around 80 no? sounds good to me' Which is good. except that it should be up to US where we want to deploy and charge... 
LIke if i want to use the ers to keep up until the drs is there.. and then charge (by going to 0) on the straight with drs. i should be able to do it. and the ai will be oblivious to anything. 
it will me a MUCH less flexible system and that will be a big step down from what we had.  Don't expect the ai to be doing a reasonable job.. it won't, because it can't read the race situation. 

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34 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

Except that it doesn't know when you want to charge and when you do not want to charge. or when you want to deploy any at all.  
Also overtake drains your battery really fast. The video i linked to earlier got set to private, which is sad, but overtake drains the battery incredibly fast. It won't be a couple of laps, more like if you leave it on for a straight and a half you'll be out of deployment for that lap

In ai mode it charges rather rapidly and it probaby doesn't know what phase of the race you are in too. (Also there isn't really any proof of the modes actually changing at all cause all we see is the 1) 

There is just no control anymore except going to overtake which is bad. 
WE should be able to set up the ers mapping for every track. and even then should be able to have multiple presets to choose from for different situations.  (that we can all edit ourselves as part of the setup) if you go watch the onboards of f1 drivers they get asked every other lap, but sometimes multiple times a lap to switch a mode. because everything IS constantly changing and a one size fits all mode will be just bad (apart from boring) 

You say 'the ai will look to harvest more than deploy to get back to around 80 no? sounds good to me' Which is good. except that it should be up to US where we want to deploy and charge... 
LIke if i want to use the ers to keep up until the drs is there.. and then charge (by going to 0) on the straight with drs. i should be able to do it. and the ai will be oblivious to anything. 
it will me a MUCH less flexible system and that will be a big step down from what we had.  Don't expect the ai to be doing a reasonable job.. it won't, because it can't read the race situation. 

 

 

So essentially you want the old ERS being able to change it on the fly through a lap for each corner which, although adds another dimension to strategy and also another way for drivers to out-perform someone, is unrealistic as confirmed above by Barry and other drivers and, IMO, is just too much for this game? Pre-programming multiple ERS mode presets before the race for you to use in race is exactly what it was before (6 modes to choose from). 

 

The only ways I can see your idea being different from before is that you cannot change modes on the fly yourself and would have to request the change via Jeff who will take some time to analyse if it's beneficial or not (maybe a lap or 2) and then confirm or deny the change - if confirms then changes the mode for you to give you more power (to be clear I don't particularly like or dislike this idea, probably more dislike). Or perhaps you have control to set up the ERS mapping for the race and only 1 preset that you get stuck to for the entirety of the race (like you setup) and then you can manually use the Overtake when you need it - again not exactly realistic being so rigid but gives you the control over mapping pre-race you ask for. 

 

Other than that, from what I can see of the new ERS, you have the power to do exactly what you described in bold above - use overtake to keep up until DRS then disable Overtake which then (potentially) the AI will start to harvest, no?

 

I think it will be OK you know. The Virtual races are on Auto and there's been a lot of exciting moments in it with hardly if any moaning about not being able to change ERS mode. I think people are kicking off a bit much about this when in practice it will be no big deal at all after a few races 🙂

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Posted (edited)

At the moment it is all still speculation. With the limited amount of info we got through the YT content creators, we can not really say for certain how the new ers system works. 

 

If according to @BarryBL, the new ERS system has been build in accordance to actual real life driver and team feedback, and it works automated, then it is a hell of a lot more realistic than what we had in F1 2018 / F1 2019.

 

Hopefully we get to program and map the automated ERS in the car setup menu, to choose individual parts of the track and assign ERS Harvest / Charge or ERS Deployment values to those areas the way we like, e.g.: 

 

20200514_170209.png

 

This way, we still have control over how ERS is deployed or charged automatically.

 

Would be even better if we get to program the new "2020 ERS Mode 1, 2 and 3" in this programmable fashion, as mentioned above.

 

PS: As we are all speculating, here's my take: Maybe there are 4 ERS Modes? 

 

ERS0 = Full Charging, No Deployment

ERS1 = Standard Mode (Programmable)

ERS2 = High Deployment or Overtake Mode (Programmable)

ERS3 = Qualifying Mode (Programmable)

 

I would even go a step further and say:

It'd be great to get the ability to manually switch between the preprogrammed ERS Modes (Mode: 0,1,2,3), with the added function of the Overtake button to override the chosen ERS Mode and give us full ERS Deployment when needed. This would be, imo, the most realistic approach.

 

Either way, we don't know, we can only wait until Codemasters gives us official info.

Edited by TheEmpireWasRight

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1 minute ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

At the moment it is all still speculation. With the limited amount of info we got through the YT content creators, we can not really say for certain how the new ers system works. 

 

If according to @BarryBL, the new ERS system has been build in accordance to actual real life driver and team feedback, and it works automated, then it is a hell of a lot more realistic than what we had in F1 2018 / F1 2019.

 

Hopefully we get to program and map the automated ERS in the car setup menu, to choose individual parts of the track and assign ERS Harvest / Charge or ERS Deployment values to those areas the we like, e.g.: 

 

20200514_170209.png

 

I know it's still WIP, but the only thing I saw different in car setup screen from the videos was you can set the tyre pressure for each of the 4 tyres now instead of just front and back. Everything else is the same.

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1 minute ago, martbloke said:

 

 

So essentially you want the old ERS being able to change it on the fly through a lap for each corner which, although adds another dimension to strategy and also another way for drivers to out-perform someone, is unrealistic as confirmed above by Barry and other drivers and, IMO, is just too much for this game? Pre-programming multiple ERS mode presets before the race for you to use in race is exactly what it was before (6 modes to choose from). 

 

The only ways I can see your idea being different from before is that you cannot change modes on the fly yourself and would have to request the change via Jeff who will take some time to analyse if it's beneficial or not (maybe a lap or 2) and then confirm or deny the change - if confirms then changes the mode for you to give you more power (to be clear I don't particularly like or dislike this idea, probably more dislike). Or perhaps you have control to set up the ERS mapping for the race and only 1 preset that you get stuck to for the entirety of the race (like you setup) and then you can manually use the Overtake when you need it - again not exactly realistic being so rigid but gives you the control over mapping pre-race you ask for. 

 

Other than that, from what I can see of the new ERS, you have the power to do exactly what you described in bold above - use overtake to keep up until DRS then disable Overtake which then (potentially) the AI will start to harvest, no?

 

I think it will be OK you know. The Virtual races are on Auto and there's been a lot of exciting moments in it with hardly if any moaning about not being able to change ERS mode. I think people are kicking off a bit much about this when in practice it will be no big deal at all after a few races 🙂

No but i want to have the option to not use ers when i don't want to. and not have the ai use it cause i'm on a straight, whatever the circumstances.

You can NOT do what i described above, as the ers ai will not know you want to recharge in the drs..

I want us to be able to setup the presets ourselves. so there is still strategy involved. AND there to be more than 1 ai preset. so, while we dont have to change that much every corner anymore, there is still control from our side. more than just use insane amounts of ers at certain times during the lap via toggle.  

And when i DO get past someone with  a full battery after a few laps of charging, i want to be able to use more ers, but not overtake. where it drains your battery in a straight and a half. 

Also the virtual races may be exciting to look at because they feature celebrities. but for anyone who sees and does a lot of league races himself it just looks like a trashshow open lobby with people hitting eachother and getting away with it because damage is turned of. Not a true comparison and that they ran auto ers only added to that fact. It's 'fun' but noone takes it serious there, and this game can actually be really good if everyone takes it serious.

But yeah i don't necessarily disagree with ai modes. and i'm actually happy we don't have to click as much. but I'd rather have MORE ai modes than just the one. 
so we can choose whether we want to be in (old style) mode 1, 2, or 3, on a straight, depending on the situation. But we wouldn't have to change it every straight (because any of the ai modes would be at 0 in the corners... as it should be)  and just change every now and then depending on the situation. 

Now IDEALLY like @TheEmpireWasRight says we get to map those 3 modes ourselves, 

Although if codemasters gives ur 3 modes they map themselves (that, again are 3 "AI MODES.." so no clicking all the time) 
Then that would still be a much better solution than this. this just looks like arcadey nonsense to me.

We needed less clicking at the end of straights. but we did NOT need less modes. (and less modes (1 mode) is less realistic because actual f1 cars have more modes) 

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3 minutes ago, martbloke said:

 

I know it's still WIP, but the only thing I saw different in car setup screen from the videos was you can set the tyre pressure for each of the 4 tyres now instead of just front and back. Everything else is the same.

From what i have seen so far, the car setup menu has only been shown in Time Trial, as the YT content creators have gotten hands on a build where they can merely do Time Trial Runs.

 

I have not seen anyone do a race, with directly showing us the setup before the racing event itself, to confirm that the Time Trial Car Setup Menu is indeed complete and that no other possible options are there.

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3 minutes ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

From what i have seen so far, the car setup menu has only been shown in Time Trial, as the YT content creators have gotten hands on a build where they can merely do Time Trial Runs.

 

I have not seen anyone do a race, with directly showing us the setup before the racing event itself, to confirm that the Time Trial Car Setup Menu is indeed complete and that no other possible options are there.

I've seen some racing video's but they all get taken down very quickly. 
but also seeing from some of the tt video's main menu's

They do have grand prix mode but my guess is they are not allowed to video that yet. They do, however, have the information. 

And i would be well surprised if what we want is true and we can actually change it 😞 that would be way too thoughtful... 

3 premapped modes though (where mode 1 goes to max 1 on straight and 0 in corners, and mode 3 goes to max 3 on straights and 0 in corners) would be a reasonable alternative if they really want to go this route though.. (which would be regrettable to say the least) 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

From what i have seen so far, the car setup menu has only been shown in Time Trial, as the YT content creators have gotten hands on a build where they can merely do Time Trial Runs.

 

I have not seen anyone do a race, with directly showing us the setup before the racing event itself, to confirm that the Time Trial Car Setup Menu is indeed complete and that no other possible options are there.

There were 2 full race videos on YouTube posted here but they have since been taken down. ERS sits in mode 1 all the time then when the player hits Nitroboost sorry Overtake button (nitro boost is more apt as that's how fast the overtake bar drains and speed boost you get) the mode then switches to mode 2, when the player stops pressing the overtake button it goes back to mode 1. Fully automatic, no adjustability. 

Edited by TomAAA
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This is great news ERS on 2019 was awful. Very unrealistic I'm happy real formula 1 drivers have had an influence. you only had to watch League races of the top players and there was no strategy. Everybody used 0 in the corners and overtake on the straights which was ridiculous.

 

Well done codemasters 😁

 

.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

At the moment it is all still speculation. With the limited amount of info we got through the YT content creators, we can not really say for certain how the new ers system works. 

 

If according to @BarryBL, the new ERS system has been build in accordance to actual real life driver and team feedback, and it works automated, then it is a hell of a lot more realistic than what we had in F1 2018 / F1 2019.

 

Hopefully we get to program and map the automated ERS in the car setup menu, to choose individual parts of the track and assign ERS Harvest / Charge or ERS Deployment values to those areas the way we like, e.g.: 

 

20200514_170209.png

 

This way, we still have control over how ERS is deployed or charged automatically.

 

Would be even better if we get to program the new "2020 ERS Mode 1, 2 and 3" in this programmable fashion, as mentioned above.

 

PS: As we are all speculating, here's my take: Maybe there are 4 ERS Modes? 

 

ERS0 = Full Charging, No Deployment

ERS1 = Standard Mode (Programmable)

ERS2 = High Deployment or Overtake Mode (Programmable)

ERS3 = Qualifying Mode (Programmable)

 

I would even go a step further and say:

It'd be great to get the ability to manually switch between the preprogrammed ERS Modes (Mode: 0,1,2,3), with the added function of the Overtake button to override the chosen ERS Mode and give us full ERS Deployment when needed. This would be, imo, the most realistic approach.

 

Either way, we don't know, we can only wait until Codemasters gives us official info.

It could even be done like the Pit Strategy page (HINT HINT CODIES) where you can "Add Pitstop" and change the lap on which you stop.

Start Corner  End Corner     Mode

   1                    2                  3

   2                   5                  0

   5                   6                  1

And just "Add Programme" to create each, selecting the start and end corner, and the mode to use there.

Edited by DrDraken
Turns out "Cntrol-Enter" posts the reply. Who knew? :)
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Posted (edited)

The thing is now that they have made ERS auto what is the point of it in the game?

You can not effect any change or alter it so why do we need the mode number and info about it on the screen now etc its all pretty useless to us now its Auto. They should just have an overtake boost bar on the screen as that's all it is now. In the race video that was taken down the overtake button in use was just like a nitro button

Edited by TomAAA

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, DrDraken said:

It could even be done like the Pit Strategy page (HINT HINT CODIES) where you can "Add Pitstop" and change the lap on which you stop.

Start Corner  End Corner     Mode        

   1                    2                  3

   2                   5                  0

   5                   6                  1

And just "Add Programme" to create each, selecting the start and end corner, and the mode to use there.

 

This is an interesting idea! Would be cool also if it showed you the track and corner numbers so you can see easily what section of the tracks you are referring to and the outcome of your selection so you can see what sort of usage a lap would be from your setup so you can judge if you'll run out of battery at any point in the race e.g. 

 

Start Corner  End Corner     Mode        ERS Usage  

   1                    2                  3            -10%

   2                   5                  0            +15%

   5                   6                  1             +1%

 

Obviously you'd need to make sure your battery will survive for the whole race so if, as an example, you have a 50 lap race, you need to make sure the usage per lap is no greater than -2% otherwise you'd run out of battery before the end - can make it only -1% to allow 50% battery available for the overtake button throughout.

 

Think this would be quite complex to strategise for people though particularly through the race - say I used Overtake in the 1st lap and spent like 60% on it, I'd run out of battery about 10 laps before the end if there was no way to change the above, lol.

 

 

Edited by martbloke
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4 minutes ago, peanutt2000 said:

Think we need a more detailed clarification about this from the forum lads.

In time.....

I think a few conclusions have been jumped to on this topic. Like stated earlier, we've had direct feedback from F1 drivers and teams on the ERS system. I think it justifies the comments of 'nitro' and 'arcade'. If the drivers themselves have said that, for example, 'X system would be a more universally accepted attempt at a replication than your current system'. Teams may have very subtle differences in their systems and mapping which they would probably not want to totally give away (competitive advantage and everything 😛 ), but I think its our responsibility to listen and try to bring our system closer in line

Hopefully the first week of BETA testing and any upcoming further detail on 2020 as we get closer to launch sheds light on the issue.

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It's very baffling how some are claiming that this new system is "unrealistic" when real F1 drivers have signed off on it and have complained about last year's system. I think real F1 drivers know a bit more about this sort of thing than some of the posters here.

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Posted (edited)

In the interview today it was said they signed off on the new ers and the new handling model, so nobody better complain about the handling too I guess....

Edited by TomAAA

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7 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

In the interview today it was said they signed off on the new ers and the new handling model, so nobody better complain about the handling too I guess....

Link to the interview?

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Posted (edited)

.

Edited by TomAAA
Deleted wrong link

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, HDR10 said:

Link to the interview?

Sorry I posted the wrong link here is the correct one:

https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/14/how-f1-drivers-helped-codemasters-make-massive-gains-with-f1-2020s-realism/

Interesting part here too:

Intriguingly, one driver told them F1 2019 felt more realistic with the traction control assist switched on.

“The driver feedback was ‘I don’t have the confidence on the throttle that I think I should have’. In fact, some of the feedback we had recently was they say that in a modern Formula 1 car the feeling of getting on the throttle is very similar to how our game in ’19 would have been if you had medium traction control on. Th grip they actually have. So those changes that we’ve made this year have bought the game much closer to what the drivers are telling us they experience.”

The team is pleased with the realism gains it has made based on the feedback from drivers.

“How the grip comes and goes, how manageable it is – or how not manageable it is at certain times – how the braking distance is, they don’t feel they’ve got enough traction for the brakes.

“We’ve made massive gains there. It feels grippier, it feels tighter, it feels, as the drivers said, more like a Formula 1 car should.”

Edited by TomAAA
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BarryBL said:

In time.....

I think a few conclusions have been jumped to on this topic. Like stated earlier, we've had direct feedback from F1 drivers and teams on the ERS system. I think it justifies the comments of 'nitro' and 'arcade'. If the drivers themselves have said that, for example, 'X system would be a more universally accepted attempt at a replication than your current system'. Teams may have very subtle differences in their systems and mapping which they would probably not want to totally give away (competitive advantage and everything 😛 ), but I think its our responsibility to listen and try to bring our system closer in line

Hopefully the first week of BETA testing and any upcoming further detail on 2020 as we get closer to launch sheds light on the issue.

Hi Barry - thanks for taking the time to update us on Codemasters thinking thus far - it's much appreciated and I have followed this thread with great care as I have recently purchased the Fanatec ClubSport Formula V2 steering wheel so as I can programme and use the ERS settings in 2019. I have also watched the recent virtual F1 races with comments from F1 drivers using the auto ERS in 2019. So here is what I believe would be the best compromise using the existing CM programme code for Fanatec wheel users 

Mode 1 (Low) as a recharge when battery is low

Mode 2 (Medium) as the standard race mode

Mode 3 (High) when needed to push push push to catch the car ahead or to perform an undercut/overcut

Mode 4 as the new "boost button" for overtake 

This only leaves the question of where is the "Party Mode" for Qualifying? - maybe the team at CM expect a driver to "toggle on" the boost button for an entire lap of qualifying?

So that's my suggestions for this very very important component of the F1 2020 game 

 

 

 

Edited by HamishOK
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22 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

Sorry I posted the wrong link here is the correct one:

https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/14/how-f1-drivers-helped-codemasters-make-massive-gains-with-f1-2020s-realism/

Interesting part here too:

Intriguingly, one driver told them F1 2019 felt more realistic with the traction control assist switched on.

“The driver feedback was ‘I don’t have the confidence on the throttle that I think I should have’. In fact, some of the feedback we had recently was they say that in a modern Formula 1 car the feeling of getting on the throttle is very similar to how our game in ’19 would have been if you had medium traction control on. Th grip they actually have. So those changes that we’ve made this year have bought the game much closer to what the drivers are telling us they experience.”

The team is pleased with the realism gains it has made based on the feedback from drivers.

“How the grip comes and goes, how manageable it is – or how not manageable it is at certain times – how the braking distance is, they don’t feel they’ve got enough traction for the brakes.

“We’ve made massive gains there. It feels grippier, it feels tighter, it feels, as the drivers said, more like a Formula 1 car should.”

Good to hear that they incorporated feedback to make the handling more realistic. Hopefully they executed those changes well.

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56 minutes ago, HamishOK said:

Hi Barry - thanks for taking the time to update us on Codemasters thinking thus far - it's much appreciated and I have followed this thread with great care as I have recently purchased the Fanatec ClubSport Formula V2 steering wheel so as I can programme and use the ERS settings in 2019. I have also watched the recent virtual F1 races with comments from F1 drivers using the auto ERS in 2019. So here is what I believe would be the best compromise using the existing CM programme code for Fanatec wheel users 

Mode 1 (Low) as a recharge when battery is low

Mode 2 (Medium) as the standard race mode

Mode 3 (High) when needed to push push push to catch the car ahead or to perform an undercut/overcut

Mode 4 as the new "boost button" for overtake 

This only leaves the question of where is the "Party Mode" for Qualifying? - maybe the team at CM expect a driver to "toggle on" the boost button for an entire lap of qualifying?

So that's my suggestions for this very very important component of the F1 2020 game 

 

 

 

So you want Codemasters to completely ignore what the real life drivers and teams said about ERS just because you decided to spend a few hundred euros on a wheel?

  • Agree 1

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