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What position will you come out after pitting?

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Just curious, does anyone have a way of telling what position they will come out the pits in F1 2019? If not, I do hope we will have something for F1 2020.

I find it so hard at the moment, it's just a guessing game. Having an estimate on what position I will come out after pitting (based on average lap time) and gap to the next driver would be so good. I just never know when to pit and often waste a good over/ under cut chance.

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Posted (edited)

There is, it predicts this on the second page of the MFD where it says something along the lines of "Pit Now/Rejoin P15". It's usually pretty accurate but there's no way of telling if you'll come out in traffic or have a clear track

Edited by Worntoathread
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24 minutes ago, Worntoathread said:

There is, it predicts this on the second page of the MFD where it says something along the lines of "Pit Now/Rejoin P15". It's usually pretty accurate but there's no way of telling if you'll come out in traffic or have a clear track

Thank you, I forgot about that feature.

More details would be nice, but at least they have something in place 🙂

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1 minute ago, DarkMarkXD said:

Thank you, I forgot about that feature.

I feel like you're not the only one. It's so hidden these days... especially while you're trying to keep the car on the track while not looking at the track :p

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1 minute ago, UP100 said:

I feel like you're not the only one. It's so hidden these days... especially while you're trying to keep the car on the track while not looking at the track 😛

Definitely, having to manage ERS, DRS, Fuel, Tyree, on track overtakes and other disturbances it is very much a forgotten feature. Maybe Jeff could provide audio lines saying “if we pit now, we should come out (leading, top 5, top 10, top 15 or at the back of the pack). Probably too late for this years game but maybe something for F1 2021 (weird referencing a game over a year away.)

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, cpayne32 said:

Maybe Jeff could provide audio lines saying “if we pit now, we should come out (leading, top 5, top 10, top 15 or at the back of the pack). Probably too late for this years game but maybe something for F1 2021 (weird referencing a game over a year away.)

Ooo I'd definitely be down for that! Though I think I'd want a bit more specific position, as they already have the P<number> lines ready... or if they want to re-record them, it's still not an unbelievable amount to me at least...

Edited by UP100
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3 minutes ago, UP100 said:

Ooo I'd definitely be down for that! Though I think I'd want a bit more specific position, as they already have the P<number> lines ready... or if they want to re-record them, it's still not an unbelievable amount to me at least...

I did think about that but thought that it would vary too much so could change every corner.

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Just now, cpayne32 said:

I did think about that but thought that it would vary too much so could change every corner.

I can't remember how much it varies during a race but I think I'd rather hear "around P<number>" as that works the best when the cars aren't close to together. For example if you're battling against P7 and you wonder where you'll end up when you're pitting after him, and Jeff just replies with "You'll be in the Top10"

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1 minute ago, UP100 said:

I can't remember how much it varies during a race but I think I'd rather hear "around P<number>" as that works the best when the cars aren't close to together. For example if you're battling against P7 and you wonder where you'll end up when you're pitting after him, and Jeff just replies with "You'll be in the Top10"

Fair point. It would be really useful for online league racing as well as you would be better able to get into pockets of free air (unless someone crashes at the castle section in Baku 😂

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I think it would be great if he could do this, I'm just not sure he could predict it accurately enough, but I suppose it would be triggered the same way as the current message, so why not?

On the subject of that mfd message, yes, it definitely seems to be less 'visible' while racing this year. I'm not sure why (is the display smaller maybe?), but the whole thing - 'repair wing', change tyre compound, pit now, exit in P? , just don't seem to be as easy to see this year.

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1 minute ago, Morsify said:

I think it would be great if he could do this, I'm just not sure he could predict it accurately enough, but I suppose it would be triggered the same way as the current message, so why not?

On the subject of that mfd message, yes, it definitely seems to be less 'visible' while racing this year. I'm not sure why (is the display smaller maybe?), but the whole thing - 'repair wing', change tyre compound, pit now, exit in P? , just don't seem to be as easy to see this year.

It’s on the second screen on the MFD panel but there’s so many elements that I am mainly on the first tab with the occasional flick to the tyre wear and back.

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Come on, this is Jeff. Tells you it's going to rain in 15 minutes, when the session ends in 3 laps.

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I actually like the idea of Jeff being able to tell you a rough position like the MFD. What would be even better and not just related to Jeff telling you but also for the MFD, is that it also tells you a rough time of the car ahead of that particular position so you can better judge if it's in traffic or clear air. I mean teams do try and get them in clear air irl so why can't we have that info?

 

Predicted position after pit = 9th

Predicted gap = +5s (8th) - could even be +5s (17th) if the car ahead is a lapped car

 

 

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I'm not sure Jeff would be the most elegant solution, he could report you'll CURRENTLY emerge from the pits in P10 but then a few corners later the car in P11 may have a blistering lap and by the time you pit, you are suddenly P11.

I know it's a massive distraction, but if we could see all driver positions on the left of our screen and gaps from the leader, it may help us to work out ourselves where we would emerge and also keep tabs on the driver who was in P11 (using the above scenario again).

Or if we are within our pit window/ trigger a pit request then perhaps a graphic could display showing estimated position after pit and estimated gap in front and behind to which drivers (the gaps keep updating as the lap progresses until you pit).

Any one else have any thoughts? Could be a really useful feature if executed correctly, especially in league races (as mentioned above).

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Surely it would work best for everyone if we could just rearrange the mfd to our own preferences? Especially regarding what's on the first page!

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13 hours ago, DarkMarkXD said:

Just curious, does anyone have a way of telling what position they will come out the pits in F1 2019? If not, I do hope we will have something for F1 2020.

I find it so hard at the moment, it's just a guessing game. Having an estimate on what position I will come out after pitting (based on average lap time) and gap to the next driver would be so good. I just never know when to pit and often waste a good over/ under cut chance.

Bear in mind that the mfd ai has no real way of knowing how fast you will be.. and unless it changes the prediction depending on the skill of the ai and how fast you are driving (which it doesn't) it's gonna be a very rough guess anyway. (Not really directed at you this but it never ceases to amaze me how people can complain about stuff being inaccurate even though they are driving inconsistent as balls, one lap over a second faster than the other one, and still expect the game to make educated guesses.) 

If you use the telemetry software (on your 2nd screen or, better still, send it to someone else to jeff for you) you can see this info easily (on the race map) and you can even change the pitstop time depending on conditions (like if you have a penalty or need a wing change, of if there's a vsc)  By far the best option is to have someone check this for you though, and the most important time for him (in a non SC race) is that pitstop window and make sure you're not getting undercut/come out in traffic if you try to yourself. Just like in real life even though you might want to undercut, if you're gonna get out right in the mix with the harder tires guys then you might as well stay out a bit longer 😉 you're at that point racing guys about 20 seconds behind you though and the minimap is not a good indicator, so having someone who can actually see everything is a huge benefit, and makes it a lot more realistic. 

I do feel codies would do well to give us a nice looking official telemetry tool themselves, instead of relying on 3rd party guys to make it for them. 
ATM i feel the best free one is this one:

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/team-telemetry.27638/
https://www.team-telemetry.de/

But as said this one is better for a 2nd person jeff. (which  is better for seeing pitstops and guessing this stuff anyway)

There's also a lot of telemetry tools that you can use as overlays on top of your game but personally i don't like the clutter.. 
I like having someone in the race to talk to and telling me all that's happening.. on which tires everyone is, and to figure out the best strategy because OBVIOUSLY you have 0 details while driving (as you should, how often do you hear drivers on the onboard "WHAT POSITION AM I? HOW MUCH DID WE LOSE?" because they usually have no idea 😛  even if it's a safety car, everybody pitted, and order resumes as it was, they still often don't know. Having someone tell you that via voice com is by far the most satisfying solution but i do feel codemasters should provide the tools to do it and not solely depend on the modder guys.) 

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Imagine some day Jeff would tell us this: ok, mate, if we pit now we come out in traffic, let's try and overcut them.:classic_biggrin: 

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5 minutes ago, sergey_blackbird said:

Imagine some day Jeff would tell us this: ok, mate, if we pit now we come out in traffic, let's try and overcut them.:classic_biggrin: 

But that's the whole point, you need a real person for that. 
Because they would have to change the jeff for every AI level if you drive against ai, and have the jeff KNOW how fast you and everyone else are driving...  

With people who drive 2 seconds a lap slower, the loss in the pits will be 2 seconds less consequently..

I always make fun of jeff for talking so much trash but I don't really think they can ever make him actually smart. 
It's like asking siri what you should have for breakfast today.... she can only suggest what some funny guy at apple thought would be funny to include. 

Now i do feel we should be able to ask him specific questions ( PENALTY SITUATION FOR CAR BEHIND PLZ) and don't need to hear his last lap time and on what tires he is cause you followed him in and out of the pits...  But having jeff actually be smart strategy-wise will not happen soon I think. 

More and more leagues are including jeffs in their rosters anyway. (and it's a good way to get more than 20 people involved in the racing ) 
And while i understand it might be hard to convince someone to coop career with you this way, The ai is just as smart as jeff strategy-wise and will outplay itself more often than not. 

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9 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

But that's the whole point, you need a real person for that. 
Because they would have to change the jeff for every AI level if you drive against ai, and have the jeff KNOW how fast you and everyone else are driving...  

With people who drive 2 seconds a lap slower, the loss in the pits will be 2 seconds less consequently..

I always make fun of jeff for talking so much trash but I don't really think they can ever make him actually smart. 
It's like asking siri what you should have for breakfast today.... she can only suggest what some funny guy at apple thought would be funny to include. 

Now i do feel we should be able to ask him specific questions ( PENALTY SITUATION FOR CAR BEHIND PLZ) and don't need to hear his last lap time and on what tires he is cause you followed him in and out of the pits...  But having jeff actually be smart strategy-wise will not happen soon I think. 

More and more leagues are including jeffs in their rosters anyway. (and it's a good way to get more than 20 people involved in the racing ) 
And while i understand it might be hard to convince someone to coop career with you this way, The ai is just as smart as jeff strategy-wise and will outplay itself more often than not. 

 

 

I don't think it needs that much of a change you are suggesting. Jeff will already know the length of time it takes for a pit stop. All he'd need to know is how far back from you cars are timewise ignoring positions and then take into account average lap times from the last 2-3 laps of those cars. Done.

 

Even if it's just telling you that at that point you are checking MFD or asking Jeff you would come out in X position which gives you a gap of y to the car behind when you exit and z to the car in front when you exit, then it's down to the player to understand if they will hit traffic or not. If you leave the MFD open on the lap, you'll see how this changes through it at intervals like a delta to see if it's worth jumping in.

 

I think it can be easily done and does not need to cater for all AI levels. I mean IRL the engineers have a decent guess of gap but cannot know for sure that the car they are expecting to jump ahead won't suddenly hit the boosts a do a lap .5s faster or clear the car in front of them and then go 1s faster.

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1 minute ago, martbloke said:

 

 

I don't think it needs that much of a change you are suggesting. Jeff will already know the length of time it takes for a pit stop. All he'd need to know is how far back from you cars are timewise ignoring positions and then take into account average lap times from the last 2-3 laps of those cars. Done.

 

Even if it's just telling you that at that point you are checking MFD or asking Jeff you would come out in X position which gives you a gap of y to the car behind when you exit and z to the car in front when you exit, then it's down to the player to understand if they will hit traffic or not. If you leave the MFD open on the lap, you'll see how this changes through it at intervals like a delta to see if it's worth jumping in.

 

I think it can be easily done and does not need to cater for all AI levels. I mean IRL the engineers have a decent guess of gap but cannot know for sure that the car they are expecting to jump ahead won't suddenly hit the boosts a do a lap .5s faster or clear the car in front of them and then go 1s faster.

Time difference is relative though... but the pit time is semi set in stone (because it is ai) 

And jeff will 'kinda' know the length of the pitstop but it won't know how fast you are on entry and exit, and quite a bit of time can be made or lost there too. 

And if you enter the pits.. it DOES depend on how fast the driver catching up to you is... where you will come back.. if there's a group of 3 in about where you will come out, and they do the last sector in 28 seconds you might come out behind.. but if they do it in 30 seconds you might come out ahead.  the differences are small in this game and 2 seconds can give or lose you 3 positions. so yeah. jeff would have to, like, take their last lap's final sector + turn 1 (on some tracks), see how fast they were, assume they will be as fast again, and then calculate, based on YOUR presumed pit time.. 

That's a lot of factors where it can go wrong 😉 

And once again.. it only works if everyone is consistent. if you're driving in a race where people are not, it's impossible for jeff to make an educated guess.  
 

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Posted (edited)

Yeah a lot of factors in play. It once told me when I pitted I would come out 8th but as I entered the pits I didn't know there was a massive crash between the Ai at another corner and I came out the pits in 2nd lol

Edited by TomAAA
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2 hours ago, Bicarda said:

Time difference is relative though... but the pit time is semi set in stone (because it is ai) 

And jeff will 'kinda' know the length of the pitstop but it won't know how fast you are on entry and exit, and quite a bit of time can be made or lost there too. 

And if you enter the pits.. it DOES depend on how fast the driver catching up to you is... where you will come back.. if there's a group of 3 in about where you will come out, and they do the last sector in 28 seconds you might come out behind.. but if they do it in 30 seconds you might come out ahead.  the differences are small in this game and 2 seconds can give or lose you 3 positions. so yeah. jeff would have to, like, take their last lap's final sector + turn 1 (on some tracks), see how fast they were, assume they will be as fast again, and then calculate, based on YOUR presumed pit time.. 

That's a lot of factors where it can go wrong 😉 

And once again.. it only works if everyone is consistent. if you're driving in a race where people are not, it's impossible for jeff to make an educated guess.  
 

 

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that this is just like real life though. No one knows what will happen only what it looks like what will happen. IRL, the drivers could be slow coming into the pits, they could stall it when released, where they are expecting to be ahead of 3 cars who are close racing together could become 1 car as 2 enter the pits, you could come out behind or ahead as the cars suddenly for some reason sped up (hammer time knowing you're coming in or a faster car finally clear of a slower car). It happens.

 

Basically as long as Jeff or the MFD can know how long it takes roughly to go through the pits (like they do in real life for each track), how far back the cars on track are, they can then give an estimated position (like it does now) and time difference (ahead and behind to decide if it's a possible gap you can land in) upon exit assuming all stays roughly the same. It's what they do IRL. If you are expecting the MFD and/or Jeff to be able to say the exact position and exact time difference you will be in, then good luck with that. If anything bit of estimation only adds to the immersion and fun of racing. Knowing exact details can be less exciting like knowing exactly how the weather is going to go - boring!

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Just now, martbloke said:

 

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that this is just like real life though. No one knows what will happen only what it looks like what will happen. IRL, the drivers could be slow coming into the pits, they could stall it when released, where they are expecting to be ahead of 3 cars who are close racing together could become 1 car as 2 enter the pits, you could come out behind or ahead as the cars suddenly for some reason sped up (hammer time knowing you're coming in or a faster car finally clear of a slower car). It happens.

 

Basically as long as Jeff or the MFD can know how long it takes roughly to go through the pits (like they do in real life for each track), how far back the cars on track are, they can then give an estimated position (like it does now) and time difference (ahead and behind to decide if it's a possible gap you can land in) upon exit assuming all stays roughly the same. It's what they do IRL. If you are expecting the MFD and/or Jeff to be able to say the exact position and exact time difference you will be in, then good luck with that. If anything bit of estimation only adds to the immersion and fun of racing. Knowing exact details can be less exciting like knowing exactly how the weather is going to go - boring!

Let me explain it one more time:

Let's say in an extreme example. you are driving monza. and it takes you 2 minutes to complete the track. (very slow i know) 
someone is driving exactly 20 seconds behind you and is doing the same laptimes as you.  The point here is tho; Those 20 seconds are RELATIVE.. if you were both doing 1:21 laptimes, as one would expect during a race, and the gap still being exactly 20 seconds, a pit stop would lose you relatively MORE time, than compared to someone who is doing 2 minute laps. 

This is an extreme example, of course. but GAP is no true indication of time lost in a pitstop. More extreme example: if you are both driving at 5kph (walking speed) for the entire track, with 20 seconds between you, going into the pit wil actually GAIN you time, and you might come out 40 seconds ahead. 

It's not enough to just know 'how far back they are' that doesn't really mean anything. it can give you an educated guess as it is doing now, but being in a league (or ai race) where people drive 2 seconds slower than in another race, the predictions will be off.  Jeff doesn't use actual lap times or sector times to calculate this. He just sees the gap and assumes everybody is driving exactly the same speed, which is not the case.  Heck, it's not far fetched for them to make up close to 2 seconds in 1 sector if they pitted to softer tires a lap earlier than you. And if they're just out of the pits jeff doesn't even have a relevant 'last lap' to compare as their last lap was the in-lap on old tires.


It's the same as with the VSC. during a vsc the distance between the drivers stays the same, but the gaps in time change (increase) because they are going slower. 
So 2 drivers going faster with the same gap, will lose more time relatively with a pitstop
than 2 drivers driving even a bit slower. (Not to mention your pitcrew might still be walking casually into the garage from the pitstop your teammate did a lap earlier) 

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9 minutes ago, Bicarda said:

Let me explain it one more time:

Let's say in an extreme example. you are driving monza. and it takes you 2 minutes to complete the track. (very slow i know) 
someone is driving exactly 20 seconds behind you and is doing the same laptimes as you.  The point here is tho; Those 20 seconds are RELATIVE.. if you were both doing 1:21 laptimes, as one would expect during a race, and the gap still being exactly 20 seconds, a pit stop would lose you relatively MORE time, than compared to someone who is doing 2 minute laps. 

This is an extreme example, of course. but GAP is no true indication of time lost in a pitstop. More extreme example: if you are both driving at 5kph (walking speed) for the entire track, with 20 seconds between you, going into the pit wil actually GAIN you time, and you might come out 40 seconds ahead. 

It's not enough to just know 'how far back they are' that doesn't really mean anything. it can give you an educated guess as it is doing now, but being in a league (or ai race) where people drive 2 seconds slower than in another race, the predictions will be off.  Jeff doesn't use actual lap times or sector times to calculate this. He just sees the gap and assumes everybody is driving exactly the same speed, which is not the case.  Heck, it's not far fetched for them to make up close to 2 seconds in 1 sector if they pitted to softer tires a lap earlier than you. And if they're just out of the pits jeff doesn't even have a relevant 'last lap' to compare as their last lap was the in-lap on old tires.


It's the same as with the VSC. during a vsc the distance between the drivers stays the same, but the gaps in time change (increase) because they are going slower. 
So 2 drivers going faster with the same gap, will lose more time relatively with a pitstop
than 2 drivers driving even a bit slower. (Not to mention your pitcrew might still be walking casually into the garage from the pitstop your teammate did a lap earlier) 

 

 

No I get what you are saying and it's the reason why cars pit under VSC because they gain time as the car on track is travelling slower compared to normal, so what would be normal pit of say losing 20s you only lose 10s on them.

 

That's where my initial reply to you advised that the game would know average lap/sector times of say the last 2 laps of all cars (or whatever is best to best gauge a predicted future position of cars) so it can keep a prediction going in the MFD. If you have that open (or keep asking Jeff), you can see the predicted gap on exit changing and then you can decide on when is best to pit. No need to cater Jeff for every AI, just that coding to take into account average lap/sector times for a credited position on track when exiting pit would do if for all.

 

Predicted position: 9th

Predicted gaps: Ahead = 17th +1.2s; Behind = 10th -5.3s

 

 

The 17th place is the actual car ahead on track not positional as you are looking at gaps not positions.

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