Jump to content
Scheduled Updates and BETA Shutdown - 06/07/2020 Read more... ×

Critical aspects of F1 2020

Recommended Posts

the first thing we have to get in the beta (in addition to reporting all the bugs), is a change in physics because in the videos these days it has worsened a lot. first of all 2020 cars have a lot of grip and this is true. There is a lot of grip in the game compared to 2019 (maybe even too much). The attentive eye has however noticed that the machine behaves very badly on the curbs. In high curbs you can cut at maximum speed (with all wheels) without having the slightest loss of grip. This is a very negative aspect because the current cars, despite having all that grip, cannot cut the curbs with the whole car but only with the front and rear wheels. The tiametmarduk videos in bahrain are proof of how much the behavior on the curbs has worsened, making them almost only visual. Another negative aspect, the machine seems to have an autospin. In some videos you can clearly see a loss at the rear but then magically the car regains stability (as is possible) and returns to the ideal trajectory. Please eliminate this type of aid because in real F1 when you lose the car, in 99.9% of cases you turned around. My advice is to decrease the grip of the curbs, making them less attackable, especially tall ones. Low curbs can be attached with two wheels but if taken too aggressively they can lead to a loss of grip. The grip of the car on them (curbs) must also be revised, because you cannot accelerate without help on a curb in second gear at maximum (without help), without having the least oversteer. I hope to participate in the beta to give useful advice to programmers. This year's F1 is easy to drive but difficult to push to the limit. That's why when you go to the limit in the game it shouldn't be even easier. As a simulation lover, seeing such machine behavior is a blow to the heart. Without help we want a difficult game, where if you take a curb in the wrong way or accelerate on it with too much violence, you are out of the race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember that the game is a work in progress builds most of the cars apart from Renault are the base FOM model so this may change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're providing feedback on something that you have never played yourself? I'd get feedback on visual stuff, but suggesting gameplay changes before having played said game is a bit strange, isn't it. Wouldn't it be better to wait how it actually pans out and see how the players actually feel about it and THEN suggest changes if necessary?

  • Like 3
  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just watched  the Tiametmarduk video and see him spin in the second corner quite a few times. What particular curbs does he hit in a manner that he shouldn't be able to according to you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Falstojudilofa said:

I just watched  the Tiametmarduk video and see him spin in the second corner quite a few times. What particular curbs does he hit in a manner that he shouldn't be able to according to you?

Turn 6 and 7. then as he accelerates on the curb in turns 8 and 10. No curves cut in turns 13. Be objective guys, it's something really unrealistic. It is not the right path to realism. I answer who says which criterion I base myself on? Many esports drivers have already said that they are disappointed in physics (Amos Laurito for example). With all due respect, we cannot listen to the opinion of aarava and tiametmarduk who will never speak ill of the game because they always have a preview of the game. Instead, we must give a sincere opinion, because it is not a question of criticizing but of advising that this is a wrong path. Real fans of this sport don't want this, if you want a game like this you don't really love F1, but you are simple spectators

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main issue is Track Limits: 

 

Bahrain Turn 2 Inside Kerb, Turn 6 & 7 Inside Kerb, Turn 13 Exit Kerb. These can be cut or extended, without getting a lap invalidation. That should not be the case.

 

Either way, only high Kerbs, should spin the car or give us damage to the underfloor / front wing / suspension, if they are taken too aggressively or with a way too low ride height.

 

All the other Kerbs (normal height Kerbs or flat Kerbs) are fine and do not need any change. Spinning out on the normal or flat Kerbs should only be possible when the tyres are almost dead or when it is raining and we have to deal with wet weather conditions, and that was already the case in F1 2019. 

 

PS: From what we could see as video footage on YouTube, the downforce and grip levels are correct and synchronized to real life car performance. Keep in mind that the 2020 cars are the fastest we ever had in the history of F1.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion they should give beta only to Charles, Lando, Albon, Max and other real drivers that are now driving it.:classic_biggrin: They are only ones who actually drove 2020 cars on track, and Codemasters used their input for increasing downforce.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

The main issue is Track Limits: 

 

Bahrain Turn 2 Inside Kerb, Turn 6 & 7 Inside Kerb, Turn 13 Exit Kerb. These can be cut or extended, without getting a lap invalidation. That should not be the case.

 

Either way, only high Kerbs, should spin the car or give us damage to the underfloor / front wing / suspension, if they are taken too aggressively or with a way too low ride height.

 

All the other Kerbs (normal height Kerbs or flat Kerbs) are fine and do not need any change. Spinning out on the normal or flat Kerbs should only be possible when the tyres are almost dead or when it is raining and we have to deal with wet weather conditions, and that was already the case in F1 2019. 

 

PS: From what we could see as video footage on YouTube, the downforce and grip levels are correct and synchronized to real life car performance. Keep in mind that the 2020 cars are the fastest we ever had in the history of F1.

 

 

 

 

but it has nothing to do with the cars being faster. The curbs are a separate thing. If you take them with these cars with too much violence, the car spins every time while in the game there is not even a hint to the loss of grip. And when the rear seems to start, there is something that then stabilizes the car and does not make you turn. Look at trl limitess in monza, look how he keeps the gas on the curb down at the first variant without aid. First and second without dosing, moreover on the curbs. I can't accept this. Not to mention the behavior at the variante della roggia and in the curva di lesmo. even those who have never seen the F1 note a loss of adhesion to the rear and inexplicably the car regains stability for no Reading. I got a stomach ache looking at all of this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, mikyesposto95 said:

but it has nothing to do with the cars being faster.

You stated:

3 hours ago, mikyesposto95 said:

There is a lot of grip in the game compared to 2019 (maybe even too much)

Hence why is stated:

49 minutes ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

From what we could see as video footage on YouTube, the downforce and grip levels are correct and synchronized to real life car performance. Keep in mind that the 2020 cars are the fastest we ever had in the history of F1.

 

Regardless of that, only extremely high Kerbs (Inside Kerb of Turn 1 & 2 of Italy, Inside Kerb of Turn 5 of Hungary, Exit Kerb of Turn 20 of Abu Dhabi etc.), massive Sausage Kerbs, and Kerbs in the wet should spin or damage a car. From what i could see in all of the YouTube videos about F1 2020 the game, the players did spin when taking too much Kerb or when being at full throttle over the Kerb. Only Kerb where this was not the case, was in Monza Turn 5 and 10, though Turn 5 was a 50% chance of spinning whilst Turn 10 was taken flat.

 

The Monza video of TRL Limitless showcased once again, a huge issue with Track Limits:

Turn 4 Inside Kerb

Turn 5 Inside Kerb

Turn 8 Inside Kerb

Turn 10 Inside Kerb

 

These Turns / Kerbs were cut and should have ended up in a lap invalidation.

 

55 minutes ago, mikyesposto95 said:

And when the rear seems to start, there is something that then stabilizes the car and does not make you turn.

 

From what i read, saw and heard, apparently Codemasters took the feedback of real life F1 drivers, and build the car handling, downforce & grip levels, as well as track models in accordance to what they had to say. 

 

 

image (1).png

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Codemasters listened to the opinion of the real drivers but simplified the car's behavior. Real drivers have always said that when you start losing the car it is almost impossible to recover it, because they are so fast that you have time to do nothing. Are there no improvements for curved cutting? Is it so difficult to make a system that when you put all four wheels out completely, you cancel the timed lap? It will be a fiery beta in my opinion, there is a lot of work to do. David Greco cannot accept such a driving model

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheEmpireWasRight said:

The Monza video of TRL Limitless showcased once again, a huge issue with Track Limits:

Turn 4 Inside Kerb

Turn 5 Inside Kerb

Turn 8 Inside Kerb

Turn 10 Inside Kerb

 

These Turns / Kerbs were cut and should have ended up in a lap invalidation.

I think this is a difficult one, as it is really hard to see whether or not he cut the corner. Many times during my races I've thought I did or didn't cut a corner when in reality I was just an inch over the line. It is just noway to be 100% sure when in driver view (cockpit or T-cam).  I see he cuts turn 9 at 2:55 and gets a penalty, cuts turn 5 at 6:30 and gets a penalty but at 8:30 it might look like he cuts turn 5 but it is so incredibly close that I can say for sure. The same goes for turn 8 in the same lap, as he seems to be driving with his right front tyre over the white line and thus staying on track. Turn 10 comes close to a cut, but I'm not sure. At 9:50 he most definitely cuts the track at turn 5, but this lap was already invalidated because of an earlier situation. Same goes for turn 8 at 10:15. Turn 4 at 11:09 looks like a cut that has not been deemed invalid where it should. Turn 8 at 13:35 also looks very close, but I can't say for sure.

So, after replaying those corners multiple times and using 0.25x speed I can only say with full confidence that turn 4 at 11:09 was a cut that should have been punished. There were a few other moments where it looked as if it could be a cut, but it's just impossible to be sure.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 With respect to the OP, how does anyone on this forum know how an F1 car should handle? Why would Codemasters take advice from someone who has never driven an F1 car?

  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TAKIINOUE said:

 With respect to the OP, how does anyone on this forum know how an F1 car should handle? Why would Codemasters take advice from someone who has never driven an F1 car?

You could ask the same question about beta testers who are suppose to be testing the handling, in order to improve the final product. It's exactly what the OP said, they listened to mainly the criticisms of real drivers, rather than having an in-depth conversation with them about the handling. Then they simplified the car's behavior by adding so much down force, to the point where the car's seems stuck to the tracks.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only beta testers should be the real drivers. But this does not mean that just because they said they improve to increase the grip of the cars, they are easy to drive and you can pass on the curbs without problems. Bringing them to the limit should be difficult even for those who want to play without aid. Instead from the videos it seems very easy to reach the limit and the behavior on the curbs is not realistic. A real car does not accelerate at maximum on a curb at low speed (second-third gear), but must dose the gas. In the game it accelerates to the maximum without losing grip, and when the rear seems to start, there is something that prevents you from turning around. For those who want simulation it is not a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2020 at 6:07 PM, XanderSJX said:

In my opinion they should give beta only to Charles, Lando, Albon, Max and other real drivers that are now driving it.:classic_biggrin: They are only ones who actually drove 2020 cars on track, and Codemasters used their input for increasing downforce.

yeah, how 'bout this @BarryBL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, mikyesposto95 said:

the only beta testers should be the real drivers. 

You know it's not not just about testing realism? It's also about general player experience like accessibility, menus, settings, bugs, connectivity and many other things. In the end it's a full game, an entertainment product, not just a handling model and 99.99% of players won't be real racing drivers. That doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for simulation and realism, but it's definitely not the sole purpose of the beta.

Edited by Worntoathread
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Worntoathread said:

You know it's not not just about testing realism? It's also about general player experience like accessibility, menus, settings, bugs, connectivity and many other things. In the end it's a full game, an entertainment product, not just a handling model and 99.99% of players won't be real racing drivers. That doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for simulation and realism, but it's definitely not the sole purpose of the beta.

I was about to say the same. Getting drivers' feedback for the handling is a good idea, but the F1 games will remain just that -  games. There's more to that than asking a handful of drivers whether the cars feel real (which, again, is not even the main concern of the devs; it's not a pure sim game). 

Even if they were to ask all (!) drivers, they would need much more feedback regarding things like stability, features, etc. 
 

Edited by Schorchi
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2020 at 3:55 PM, Falstojudilofa said:

I think this is a difficult one, as it is really hard to see whether or not he cut the corner. Many times during my races I've thought I did or didn't cut a corner when in reality I was just an inch over the line. It is just noway to be 100% sure when in driver view (cockpit or T-cam).  I see he cuts turn 9 at 2:55 and gets a penalty, cuts turn 5 at 6:30 and gets a penalty but at 8:30 it might look like he cuts turn 5 but it is so incredibly close that I can say for sure. The same goes for turn 8 in the same lap, as he seems to be driving with his right front tyre over the white line and thus staying on track. Turn 10 comes close to a cut, but I'm not sure. At 9:50 he most definitely cuts the track at turn 5, but this lap was already invalidated because of an earlier situation. Same goes for turn 8 at 10:15. Turn 4 at 11:09 looks like a cut that has not been deemed invalid where it should. Turn 8 at 13:35 also looks very close, but I can't say for sure.

So, after replaying those corners multiple times and using 0.25x speed I can only say with full confidence that turn 4 at 11:09 was a cut that should have been punished. There were a few other moments where it looked as if it could be a cut, but it's just impossible to be sure.

I'm not even sure about that turn 4. Bear in mind: The rule is 2 tires between the lines. We can't see it.. but there's a high chance on a corner like this that his rear tires only go off track as his front tires (at least the right one) is already on the track again. (and maybe rear right never leaves it) This is also what makes you cut turn 1 in germany, or the last chicane in canada (for example) a bit more than you would have thought and sometimes be surprised it wasn't an invalidation. (although what you can do with the chicane before the hairpin is just abuse) I think The cars are a bit bigger in comparison to the track in the game than they are in the actual.. (you can easily see this in the pits.. it's way more cramped everything and there's a lot of places where 3 wide is impossible where they do 3 wide on tv 😛

And indeed during time trial you will be hard pressed to call the corner cut ai on ******** (except if you lift a lot and then.. fair enough)

During the RACE however is where the inconsistency kicks in. And where you have a lot of occasions where you can go wide quite a bit, and get nothing, 
And go wide 1 millimeter and get a warning. (Like litteraly had a race yesterday where i got 3 warning in total and they were ALL those '1 millimeter on the line' things that no one ever in a regular f1 race would notice. Everybody knows how you can go wide by miles on stowe and then when you keep your right tires on the line you suddenly get a warning.. 

That's what i would have change. 
I think going wide extremely marginally (tire still touching the line) should only get you warnings if you do it repeatedly. and going wide more instantly give you a warning. 
Cutting should always give you a warning.  The system with the game calculating "how much you gained" is broken because it calls it as soon as you enter the track again which is too soon and you can still lose it after that. 

AND YOU SHOULDN'T GET WARNINGS WHILE GOING SIDE BY SIDE. A big problem in this game is that people try to squeeze with 2 through a chicane because no one wants to lift because they will get a warning. Whereas in real racing, the car who is in the least favorable position will usually yield, cut the corner, and slot in behind. The game should recognize this WAY BETTER than it currently does (now it sometimes feels you need to bang wheels for it to give you no warning. This would improve driving A LOT.. take turn 4-5 monza. Car on the outside, if he is not far enough ahead to stay ahead, should have the option to cut the chicane and slot in behind always.... without risk of warning. same with the last chicane in canada. or les combes. incidents happen there because the outside car is expecting space which there isn't. because the alternative is a warning. If you're going side by side you're not gaining time ANYWAY.  you're fighting with someone. so in a fight (or even... at the hint of a fight) i would have the corner cut system deactivate for those cars and have the stewards sort it all out.. (also.. no illegal overtake penalties by the game plz...) Too often people get warnings for giving people space, or, for leaving the track to not go in the back of someone etc. Maybe a nice and easy: gap less than 0.2 seconds to another car = no warning. although that might be exploitable. Any incidents that the game still spots can then be flagged in a replay system, so the stewards can then take a closer look if there were any track extensions/illegal overtakes. But to just have the game randomly applying those penalties even though it clearly has no idea what is going on most of the time is just no good. Just make a nice steward mode. where the stewads can knock themselves out after a race studying the replay of all the points that the game flagged.. or that drivers flagged by a hotkey. and handing penalties accordingly.

Which is my last point: Please give us a steward/race director suite. 
Save the replay of the race, have the game hand out warnings but otherwise FLAG everything it notices for the stewards in the replay, (Big cuts, illegal overtakes, contact) 
Give drivers the option of (via hotkey) flag certain points in the race for the stewards to look at. 
And then after the race give the stewards the option to get in, watch the flagged points together, (if someone thought a warning was BS he could have flagged that one too) 
And then do actual stewarding, having all the camera angles and stuff, after which they produce an official race result screen with everything fixed that they can post on the discord, website, forum, whatever.  You can even make it work for single player too for people who would love to do this as a little cooling down after a long and tiring race. I feel the only thing the game can be really entrusted with is doing the pit speed limit penalties.

But this, apart from reserving a spot in the lobby for a 'race director' who can send out safety car/vsc , dsq people, instead of the game. would go a long way of making the game more enjoyable and fair. 
 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×