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[IMPROVEMENT] Proper handbrake behavior for Group B cars


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I didn't think 4wd Group B cars could utilize the handbrake in the same fashion more modern cars (or even FWD/RWD of that era) do because of the way the center differentials operated back then. Which would mean that on a Group B car, all 4 wheels would lock up when the handbrake is used. Making it useless for tight turns/hairpins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZmX6eSdQJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpB_mWEUKpc
(Peugeot 405, doesn't look like he's using a handbrake) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siKlrTF9Baw
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While it may be true that original 1980s Group B cars do have this behavior, you're not racing 100% original cars in the game. Rather, you're driving them as if you were going to race them in a rally today and that implies, most likely, certain modifications, one of them being the introduction of a rear-locking handbrake. Here is a Lancia Delta S4 exhibiting modern handbrake behavior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c71jDPRVyRU

One thing you must remember about DiRT Rally, is that it's not like Grand Prix Legends. It's not trying to relive the past but rather bringing the past to the present. What this means is that, while you'll get to drive older cars, you'll inevitably get some modern trinkets with them, indicative of when, in history, the game is taking place.

Also, I don't understand why the need to make poll options so, let's say, condescending. Why not some simple Agree/Disagree or Yes/No options? Like this, I feel that, whichever option I vote for, I'll be provoking others.
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>> Handbrakes for girls
WHY YOU HATIN' ON MY HOMEGIRL MICHELE MOUTON, BOY?
Haha. Well, I don't think she would've used the handbrake back then. And I would consider her more of a goddess than a girl. ;)
While it may be true that original 1980s Group B cars do have this behavior, you're not racing 100% original cars in the game. Rather, you're driving them as if you were going to race them in a rally today and that implies, most likely, certain modifications, one of them being the introduction of a rear-locking handbrake. Here is a Lancia Delta S4 exhibiting modern handbrake behavior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c71jDPRVyRU

One thing you must remember about DiRT Rally, is that it's not like Grand Prix Legends. It's not trying to relive the past but rather bringing the past to the present. What this means is that, while you'll get to drive older cars, you'll inevitably get some modern trinkets with them, indicative of when, in history, the game is taking place.

Also, I don't understand why the need to make poll options so, let's say, condescending. Why not some simple Agree/Disagree or Yes/No options? Like this, I feel that, whichever option I vote for, I'll be provoking others.
I really hate the "modernized" explanations, that's just a cop-out in my opinion. I've seen it in other games where people voice their opinion about wanting an authentic experience in regards to the cars. Only to have someone come along and use the "modernized" excuse. It's used so arbitrarily whenever a discrepancy is brought up.

The Group B cars were presented to us as just that, Group B monsters from the 80's. I've also seen many videos of GrB cars that were modified that now sport sequential shifters. Why are these cars in the game not using sequential shifters? Why does the game simulate lag when shifting if you use sequential/paddle shifter with these cars? The lag isn't there if you use manual+clutch. Might as well get rid of different car makes/models all together because they'll all handle and behave the same because of "modernizations". I want to drive the cars from the 80s where it took planning ahead to navigate a tight/hairpin turn. Where setting the car up properly and manipulating the clutch and other inputs mattered. Probably more so than it does in the modern WRC cars. If I wanted to fly through a stage, mash on the brakes at the last minute, yank the handbrake and be on my way again, I'd stick with the GrA and WRC cars.

This guy explains it perfectly:
http://jalopnik.com/5821557/how-to-beg-your-way-into-a-group-b-rally-car

In order for the Group B Metro 6R4 car to work, you need to drive it like you stole it. I'm willing to bet the expression was coined from driving Group B cars. Seriously.

Ken's WRC spec Fiesta was an exercise of patience and delicate inputs and perfection of car control. This Group B Metro thing just wanted to be beaten, over and over again. The dogbox (meaning no synchros) just huge cogs that engage the next gear with a bang, was amazing. The no handbrake was an issue on the tight stage but this guy would just drop it into first and clutch kick the thing while braking or something as he turned in (there was a lot going on and at a good speed and I wasn't able to take it all in on one pass) and it would whip right around in the slow hairpins...

...My point is that it felt like a car, it handled like a car and turned like a car. Ken's Fiesta was strange, but in a cool way. You could tell it was way faster than the Metro and the rougher and faster the terrain, the better it would get, but it didn't exactly feel like a car if that makes sense. We would hit stuff so smoothly in the Fiesta that you didn't even notice, it was tight and quiet.

The Metro on the other hand was loud and banged a lot. Noise from everywhere. Constant gravel sounds on the underbody protection and every little bump made itself known. And with the engine right behind you it sounded awesome. It wanted to be driven angry, flat out, maximum attack, whatever your word is for it. And the harder you pushed it, the smoother it became.

And my sincerest apologies if my shot at a little humor was too low-brow for some and hurt anyone's feelings. Wasn't my intention at all.


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function9 said:
I really hate the "modernized" explanations, that's just a cop-out in my opinion. I've seen it in other games where people voice their opinion about wanting an authentic experience in regards to the cars. Only to have someone come along and use the "modernized" excuse. It's used so arbitrarily whenever a discrepancy is brought up.

The Group B cars were presented to us as just that, Group B monsters from the 80's. I've also seen many videos of GrB cars that were modified that now sport sequential shifters. Why are these cars in the game not using sequential shifters? Why does the game simulate lag when shifting if you use sequential/paddle shifter with these cars? The lag isn't there if you use manual+clutch. Might as well get rid of different car makes/models all together because they'll all handle and behave the same because of "modernizations". I want to drive the cars from the 80s where it took planning ahead to navigate a tight/hairpin turn. Where setting the car up properly and manipulating the clutch and other inputs mattered. Probably more so than it does in the modern WRC cars. If I wanted to fly through a stage, mash on the brakes at the last minute, yank the handbrake and be on my way again, I'd stick with the GrA and WRC cars.

This guy explains it perfectly:
http://jalopnik.com/5821557/how-to-beg-your-way-into-a-group-b-rally-car

In order for the Group B Metro 6R4 car to work, you need to drive it like you stole it. I'm willing to bet the expression was coined from driving Group B cars. Seriously.

Ken's WRC spec Fiesta was an exercise of patience and delicate inputs and perfection of car control. This Group B Metro thing just wanted to be beaten, over and over again. The dogbox (meaning no synchros) just huge cogs that engage the next gear with a bang, was amazing. The no handbrake was an issue on the tight stage but this guy would just drop it into first and clutch kick the thing while braking or something as he turned in (there was a lot going on and at a good speed and I wasn't able to take it all in on one pass) and it would whip right around in the slow hairpins...

...My point is that it felt like a car, it handled like a car and turned like a car. Ken's Fiesta was strange, but in a cool way. You could tell it was way faster than the Metro and the rougher and faster the terrain, the better it would get, but it didn't exactly feel like a car if that makes sense. We would hit stuff so smoothly in the Fiesta that you didn't even notice, it was tight and quiet.

The Metro on the other hand was loud and banged a lot. Noise from everywhere. Constant gravel sounds on the underbody protection and every little bump made itself known. And with the engine right behind you it sounded awesome. It wanted to be driven angry, flat out, maximum attack, whatever your word is for it. And the harder you pushed it, the smoother it became.

And my sincerest apologies if my shot at a little humor was too low-brow for some and hurt anyone's feelings. Wasn't my intention at all.


Regarding the modernization of rally cars, very well, I'll respect your opinion and agree to disagree with you. I simply feel that, without modernization DiRT Rally wouldn't make sense. I'm racing in 2015, not 1985. I expect my car to be a balance between originality with a few touches of modernity.
Regarding the options, I personally get the humor, but it isn't always in good taste and some people might not like it, that's all.
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While it may be true that original 1980s Group B cars do have this behavior, you're not racing 100% original cars in the game. Rather, you're driving them as if you were going to race them in a rally today and that implies, most likely, certain modifications, one of them being the introduction of a rear-locking handbrake. Here is a Lancia Delta S4 exhibiting modern handbrake behavior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c71jDPRVyRU

One thing you must remember about DiRT Rally, is that it's not like Grand Prix Legends. It's not trying to relive the past but rather bringing the past to the present. What this means is that, while you'll get to drive older cars, you'll inevitably get some modern trinkets with them, indicative of when, in history, the game is taking place.

Also, I don't understand why the need to make poll options so, let's say, condescending. Why not some simple Agree/Disagree or Yes/No options? Like this, I feel that, whichever option I vote for, I'll be provoking others.

Your Youtube Delta S4 looks odd  Its as the 2  exhausts pipes but both on the the left side of the engine that is not standard for one.
I know these days you can buy replica S4 powered with a Delta HF 2.0 ltr  Turbo motor .

But even looking at those they still use the old style placing for the twin pipes , one is only the real 
exhaust from the Motor the the bigger right hand pipe come's from the Engine , while the smaller left pipe is for the blow off valve between the Super Charger & the Turbo .

However getting back the point here , the problem was one of the Diffs been used  back then not just the Center ones but the back & front to.
The S4 required Power steering just to make it better for the drivers with out it as it was with the first test cars it proved hard to get the car to turn due to the front diff making the steer so heavy some driver had bleeding hands after having to drive the S4 after suffering power steering failures mid stage-.

So you can soon understand why hand braking was a no no . but with a 30 % front 70% Rear split  & about 25 %  split on the front diff &  a split 45% through the rear. 

You could power drift it through bends.

I think most of the Lancia Deltas still running are for the best parts standards for sure the ones that are part of the slowly sideways group are as close to works spec , as they have rules on replicas not been current spec covered in old shells .

I would like to stick to works spec for that era regarding any of the cars in the game, in fact I do not use the hand brake for Group B cars.
Instead I attempt to turn in hard & bring the back end around & use the power on the exit , this maybe slower but its more of  a challenge.

I think only by trying to keep the cars as close to their era spec can you get a better feel how rallying as changed in the last 50 years.

One more small note the Pikes Peak 405 also had 4 wheel Steering , that for sure would have helped a little with the hand brake problems
However that was 1987 or 88  & that car would have had lots of items fitted that would have been used for the next Group B or S cars.

Elctronic center Diffs were both been tested by Lancia & 
Peugeot in 1986.

Just look as the Delta HF  Intergrale one year later 1987 they could hand brake & they had 4WD  , in that case Abarth  carried over some of the ideas meant for Group S cars things that were part of the  Delta Evo program or as we know it  ECV  1 .










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