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Does codemasters condone cheating?

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Let me preface this with the notion that I have an exceptional hatred for cheating scum,

Running, hosting and administering servers across many games from cs.16 to MW4 I have seen my share of the filth, and as an admin on several different FPS communities over the years I have personally banned probably more than a thousand cheaters in my time.

I quit CS because of cheating, I quit COD because of cheating, I quit CS:GO because of cheating.

 

Now this being a Rally game, you could argue cheaters have less detrimental effect then a team based online shooter.

I would say you are wrong – Being a competitive person I instantly hone in on the best players of any game I partake in, and try to emulate those players to improve my own game.

 

Therefore, I quickly identify J1i, Pork hammer, Rallycameraman and others as people participating actively in this community and putting in solid performances (i.e best of this community) often documented on YouTube.

 

Suddenly there is a new guy appearing on the top of several daily events and as I have no proof I am not going to name him, but I see there is speculation among the best drivers on the forum documented in several threads:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6781/how-to-report-a-cheater#latest

It’s also a HUGE red flag for me when you have no clear cut way to report the cheating scum, it suggests to me you are totally unprepared for the situation and are most likely not going to act on it.

 

A quick google search reveals there is indeed a cheat available featuring

  • Super Acceleration
  • Super Brakes
  • Car Vault
  • Pause Timer

Now the fact that these scum will always exist I have no real problem with, but I do have severe problems with developers that choose to ignore, sweep under the carpet or otherwise choose not to deal with the filth in any way shape or form.

I simply quit playing their games, and stop advocating their games online or in real life.

I do not really care if these guys are cheating their asses off in the comfort of their own basement, but If I was one of the drivers I have mentioned above I would be LIVID.

Especially if all my hard work and practice to win daily /monthly events are invalidated on the front page of a developer with indifference or even lethargy.

So my question is; are you going to risk invalidating the competitive element of your game by ignoring, hiding or silencing this issue or are you going to address it?

The way you handle this WILL affect your success and subsequently you bottom line, this much I can guarantee you.

 

I hope I am not alone in this sentiment and respectfully ask for an official statement from codemasters on this.

 

PS: to mods; I sincerely hope this post will not be silenced, if we can't have this discussion now in early access you will not only help kill the community but in no small part the success of the game.

The public execution of Lapremier is understandable, (but still poor moderation) his sentiment mirror mine, even if we communicate them in a different manner and have different thresholds for what we suspect as possible cheating.

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Had to post on a throwaway, so that when you ban this I can still access the forums :)
Actually my linked account keeps putting my posts into a moderation queue, which nobody seems to moderate.

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I sent a PM to @justbiglee a few days ago regarding the cheater, and he told me that they're going to take a look at the cheaters "ghost lap data". When they're done with that I am 100% certain that he will be removed from the leaderboards, and possibly even prohibited from attempting online events. I have full faith in Codemasters on this matter. :)

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I emailed the Devs earlier today with graphic proof of his times. I'm confident it will get sorted soon, although I know the team are busy with other updates and aspects of the game. 

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I sent a PM to @justbiglee a few days ago regarding the cheater, and he told me that they're going to take a look at the cheaters "ghost lap data". When they're done with that I am 100% certain that he will be removed from the leaderboards, and possibly even prohibited from attempting online events. I have full faith in Codemasters on this matter. :)
Good, but this is based on a personal relationship you have and is not an established policy on cheats; Nor is it, I suspect, the official way to report cheaters, or have i missed that post?

(I have sent him a PM on a separate topic, and have yet to get an reply so its seems to not be a prefered channel.)

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I emailed the Devs earlier today with graphic proof of his times. I'm confident it will get sorted soon, although I know the team are busy with other updates and aspects of the game. 
Cool; I certainly respect the fact they are busy, but this is going to be more important then the progress of their game, if it evolves as cheats usually do if unchecked.

No point in working on the porch, when the house is on fire, if you catch my drift (pun intended)

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PS: to mods; I sincerely hope this post will not be silenced, if we can't have this discussion now in early access you will not only help kill the community but in no small part the success of the game.
I'm not gonna kill it, I agree with what you're saying.
The public execution of Lapremier is understandable, (but still poor moderation) his sentiment mirror mine, even if we communicate them in a different manner and have different thresholds for what we suspect as possible cheating.
LaPremier was inevitable, he was the most reported poster and the most requested for banning. He had already been temp banned before I became a mod. Before I temped banned him (after repeated warnings), I told him I was temp banning him for a week and that it was his final warning, the next ban would be permanent. He chose the make 2 new accounts, to continue to accuse the very people you list as legit, of cheating. I messaged him again after the first 2nd account, showing him the rules against 2nd accounts, he then made the 3rd account.

I didn't want to ban him, like you, I agreed with some of the things he said and was able to look past the language barrier. If he hadn't been stupid enough to call his twink accounts LaPremier2 and 3 he would still have been a member here, despite the grief I would have taken for it from other members.
(I have sent him a PM on a separate topic, and have yet to get an reply so its seems to not be a prefered channel.)
That's just the way Lee works. I pm'ed him about La Premiers twinks. I asked him to permban him for it. He did it, but I never got a pm back saying that he had done it.

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Had to post on a throwaway, so that when you ban this I can still access the forums :)
Actually my linked account keeps putting my posts into a moderation queue, which nobody seems to moderate.
I don't know why that keeps happening. I don't know where your posts requiring moderation are going and I pm'ed Lee about it because it's happening to a few of you.

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The public execution of Lapremier is understandable, (but still poor moderation) his sentiment mirror mine, even if we communicate them in a different manner and have different thresholds for what we suspect as possible cheating.
LaPremier was inevitable, he was the most reported poster and the most requested for banning. He had already been temp banned before I became a mod. Before I temped banned him (after repeated warnings), I told him I was temp banning him for a week and that it was his final warning, the next ban would be permanent. He chose the make 2 new accounts, to continue to accuse the very people you list as legit, of cheating. I messaged him again after the first 2nd account, showing him the rules against 2nd accounts, he then made the 3rd account.

I didn't want to ban him, like you, I agreed with some of the things he said and was able to look past the language barrier. If he hadn't been stupid enough to call his twink accounts LaPremier2 and 3 he would still have been a member here, despite the grief I would have taken for it from other members.

I suspected as much,it was in no way meant as a stab at the moderation I have seen here,  it just fit into the theme of my post. (And having moderated a lot myself I am, as you are, very reluctant to ban people, but sometimes you have to....)

..the only thing I did dislike was the public way he was banned ( in a thread with a mod stating it) he should have been PM èd and not killed openly in the forum IMHO (just an observation)


(I have sent him a PM on a separate topic, and have yet to get an reply so its seems to not be a prefered channel.)
That's just the way Lee works. I pm'ed him about La Premiers twinks. I asked him to permban him for it. He did it, but I never got a pm back saying that he had done it.


Thx man,  I can hope he has taken my PM into consideration then, but I will never know, you know?
Keep up the good work, SkiddyMcCrash!

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They may not "condone" cheating, but like many game companies, enforcing fairness seems to be one of their lowest priorities.

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Operator1 said:

They may not "condone" cheating, but like many game companies, enforcing fairness seems to be one of their lowest priorities.

I hope you are wrong, but suspect you are right :(
This is the first time I have bought a CM game, lets also hope its not the last.

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think its blatantly obvious who the cheater is. was watching a live stream earlier trying to promote the game and most knew he was a cheater at top .

take no half measures check all top times as there wont be just one some will do it more careful.you'll find more often cheaters play in groups.


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RacerRune said:
..the only thing I did dislike was the public way he was banned ( in a thread with a mod stating it) he should have been PM èd and not killed openly in the forum IMHO (just an observation)
That was me. I'd have rather done it via pm's, but by that point he was replying to my pm's in the forum.
RacerRune saidL
Thx man,  I can hope he has taken my PM into consideration then, but I will never know, you know?
Aye, I know exactly what you mean. I just read this in this weeks Road Book though.

https://www.dirtgame.com/uk/blog/4709

"the last thing we want you guys to feel like is that you’re throwing Frisbees out into the dark when you put a bug in. I can assure you that has not been the case and if you happen to be one of the people putting in bug reports we just wanted to let you know it hasn’t been in vain, we’d like to thank you for that and ask that you keep doing so."

I was asked yesterday by someone why I hadn't pm'ed him about a poll he'd made that I deleted. I told him the truth, that I'd deleted that many posts that if I'd pm'ed everyone whose thread I'd deleted yesterday, that I'd still have been sending them last night. I can only assume, that it's got to be the same with the devs and bug reports at the moment. I know that I've pm'ed them in the past with issues and received replies, but that wasn't at a time when they were actually working on the game in question.


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"the last thing we want you guys to feel like is that you’re throwing Frisbees out into the dark when you put a bug in. I can assure you that has not been the case and if you happen to be one of the people putting in bug reports we just wanted to let you know it hasn’t been in vain, we’d like to thank you for that and ask that you keep doing so."

(I am ignoring the part about you know who, as I am derailing my own thread talking about him, thank you for the clarification though!)

This is all great, but AFAICT there is a (recent) new established way to report bugs, there is however, to my albeit limited knowledge, NOT an established way to report cheaters?

Which is sort of the reason I posted this thread.

Ideally we should never have to report anything, top 10 placers in daily events should have some sort of automatic validation/sanity check, (thank you dgeesi0 ) but barring that we do need an official way to report suspect times.

We also need to know that these reports will be looked into.

Furthermore: if the leaderboards are populated with cheaters they lose all meaning for the legit player base, and I belive that will be detrimental for the prosperity and or success of this game. ( which I do love!)

An example : This is almost the first day since I bought the game I, am not even contemplating playing it.
I have been training/doing the daily event religiously to try to beat that dastardly fellow norwegian that often tops it, to day I could not give a hoot as I suspect the leaderboard is topped by scum. Its lost all its allure for me.

Now I might be especially sensitive to this, but how do you think the game will fare when everyone on the top 10 spots are cheaters?

I will assure you by that time, this game has lost all its traction, all its positive reviews and most of its potential for success, both monetary for codemasters, and as a huge success in a VERY crowded market space.

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I don't think you're being overly sensitive, the whole point of racing games is be the fastest. To become the fastest you have to put them time into both cars and tracks. What's the point of doing that if some pleb can just install some cheat that makes his times impossible beat.

One of the good things about us making all these posts (even the ones about he who shall not be named), is that he higher post count will make someone at Codies look at thread, even if it's just to satisfy their curiosity about whats going on in here.

;)

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PS: to mods; I sincerely hope this post will not be silenced, if we can't have this discussion now in early access you will not only help kill the community but in no small part the success of the game.
I'm not gonna kill it, I agree with what you're saying.
As a moderator I’m afraid you don’t have much choice, as naming and shaming of supposed cheaters is expressly against the rules in these forums.

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PS: to mods; I sincerely hope this post will not be silenced, if we can't have this discussion now in early access you will not only help kill the community but in no small part the success of the game.
I'm not gonna kill it, I agree with what you're saying.
As a moderator I’m afraid you don’t have much choice, as naming and shaming of supposed cheaters is expressly against the rules in these forums.
Nobody has mentioned the cheater by name in this topic.

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Yes but in this thread there's no naming, thus no reason to lock it. :) I agree with you though.

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For the most part the DiRT Rally leaderboards are mostly clean but we are aware of the odd player that tries to take the pee and we take a lot of the dodgy times down (which is why you're not seeing any 3 second stages like the problem we had with DiRT 3).

We'll soon be incorporating Valve Anti Cheat which will start locking players who are cheating out of any of DiRT Rally's competitive modes and leaderboards so if anybody reading this does use trainers or cheats you're days are numbered. 

One thing that I will say is not everybody at the top of the boards is cheating, those of you who were around for our first few weeks of early access might remember the name Kevin Abbring at the top of the leaderboard who was kicking everybodies ass (sometimes by 15-30 seconds per stage... on the short ones!). Turned out Kevin is the Hyundai WRC teams development driver and guess what.... he's really quick!

We don't want to turn every time that hits the top of the leaderboards into a witch hunt but we just wanted to let you know that only having clean times represented is important to us.

If any of you know of any exploits or trainers what would be really useful would be if you can send us details of them so we can plug the gaps. We'll catch the cheaters don't worry but knowing how they cheat helps us stop it.

Any questions just shout.

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For the most part the DiRT Rally leaderboards are mostly clean but we are aware of the odd player that tries to take the pee and we take a lot of the dodgy times down (which is why you're not seeing any 3 second stages like the problem we had with DiRT 3).

We'll soon be incorporating Valve Anti Cheat which will start locking players who are cheating out of any of DiRT Rally's competitive modes and leaderboards so if anybody reading this does use trainers or cheats you're days are numbered. 

One thing that I will say is not everybody at the top of the boards is cheating, those of you who were around for our first few weeks of early access might remember the name Kevin Abbring at the top of the leaderboard who was kicking everybodies ass (sometimes by 15-30 seconds per stage... on the short ones!). Turned out Kevin is the Hyundai WRC teams development driver and guess what.... he's really quick!

We don't want to turn every time that hits the top of the leaderboards into a witch hunt but we just wanted to let you know that only having clean times represented is important to us.

If any of you know of any exploits or trainers what would be really useful would be if you can send us details of them so we can plug the gaps. We'll catch the cheaters don't worry but knowing how they cheat helps us stop it.

Any questions just shout.
Thank you for the clarification justbiglee, two questions:

Will VAC retroactively ban for cheats?
Or is it a free for all until you announce the that VAC is in place?
(Keep in mind I am not saying it's a huge problem, I am saying it will BECOME a huge problem, if unchecked.)
I am not aware of ANY witchhunt apart from one guy in these parts of the forum.

What is the proper contact point for cheats/cheaters?
Where or to whom do we direct these?
 - A stickied post containing this info,  warning the scum, and informing the legit seems like a TINY measure to show your stance on cheaters in action and not only in words.
Its also cheap, fast and cost effective.

Again, Thank you.

Edit: and when will the leaderboards be cleaned up, the guy in question has not been removed, is he exonerated?

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Det är fullt möjligt, men det gör mig fly förbannad likväl.
Det forstår jeg, men ni båda drar min tråd (som betyder mycket for meg) i skiten, please dont.

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