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Patch V 04.5 - The one with the Force Feedback

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Thanks, Evilsmurf!
My wheel is good but is not that good. It's not a Logitech, but i like it for the money i spent.
For wheel and tyre friction, my values are set to 0%. I don't know if i need that.
Thanks again for your help :)

I use a T100 on my ps4, for the money its a great wheel.

The Wheel Friction sets the weight of the wheel and the resistance to rotation, before any other effects are added.

Tyre friction mimics the resistance of the tyre against the road, so in theory it should get lighter the faster the road wheel is turning.

I have them both set at around 10%.

FFB is a personal thing and is entirely your own choice as to the settings you use, just remember not to set everything to high or your wheel will suffer clipping. This is when all the FFB effects start to cancel each other out. Your wheel only has one motor and cant reproduce all the effect at a high level all at the same time.

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Evilsmurf said:
Thanks, Evilsmurf!
My wheel is good but is not that good. It's not a Logitech, but i like it for the money i spent.
For wheel and tyre friction, my values are set to 0%. I don't know if i need that.
Thanks again for your help :)

I use a T100 on my ps4, for the money its a great wheel.

The Wheel Friction sets the weight of the wheel and the resistance to rotation, before any other effects are added.

Tyre friction mimics the resistance of the tyre against the road, so in theory it should get lighter the faster the road wheel is turning.

I have them both set at around 10%.

FFB is a personal thing and is entirely your own choice as to the settings you use, just remember not to set everything to high or your wheel will suffer clipping. This is when all the FFB effects start to cancel each other out. Your wheel only has one motor and cant reproduce all the effect at a high level all at the same time.

Yes, T100 is a good wheel for the money it cost. And it's true that FFB is a personal thing.
My values are not hight. The only one that's high is suspension to feel the terrain.
You helped a lot :)
Many thanks :)

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This FFB is horroble...feels like a toy car now. This is WAY worse than it was. Sure that guy that adviced you felt it was better, when he has been driving with FFB off all this time! I got used to the old one, and it felt really good. Also what did you do to the sound?? Over 3000rpm its lowering the engine noise more and more.

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This FFB is horroble...feels like a toy car now. This is WAY worse than it was. Sure that guy that adviced you felt it was better, when he has been driving with FFB off all this time! I got used to the old one, and it felt really good. Also what did you do to the sound?? Over 3000rpm its lowering the engine noise more and more.
Just because you got used to the old FFB doesn't mean it's better, and it certainly isn't more realistic. I for one am happy with the change, and I feel what the car is doing a lot better now.

The sound thing sounds like a bug on your system, because I have never experienced any volume differences on high rpm's.

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setting tyre or wheel friction doesn't do anything for me. only steer torque?!

I turned them all off and one by one boosted them. with no steering torque both frictions do not work. (probs obvious). But with bit of ST I didn't notice either friction levels.. only the ST.

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Msportdan said:

setting tyre or wheel friction doesn't do anything for me. only steer torque?!

I turned them all off and one by one boosted them. with no steering torque both frictions do not work. (probs obvious). But with bit of ST I didn't notice either friction levels.. only the ST.

You can't have the damper setting at zero in the driver if you want the friction settings to work! I also felt puzzled at first, as I never have the damper activated on my T500. 

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I'm loving the FFB so far, great job! The only downside for me is that the WRC 2010 cars feel much more nervous around center of the wheel than they did before. I used 540 pre patch and 540 now(soft lock).

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I really like the update, but I don't think softlock is working for me. I heard that the fiesta locks at 540 degrees, but it goes all the way to 900...

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I really like the update, but I don't think softlock is working for me. I heard that the fiesta locks at 540 degrees, but it goes all the way to 900...
Did you set softlock to "on"? ;) If so... try calibrating it in-game - then try the Fiesta again.

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I really like the update, but I don't think softlock is working for me. I heard that the fiesta locks at 540 degrees, but it goes all the way to 900...
Did you set softlock to "on"? ;) If so... try calibrating it in-game - then try the Fiesta again.
I did set softlock on, and I calibrated twice...

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I really like the update, but I don't think softlock is working for me. I heard that the fiesta locks at 540 degrees, but it goes all the way to 900...
Did you set softlock to "on"? ;) If so... try calibrating it in-game - then try the Fiesta again.
I did set softlock on, and I calibrated twice...
You don't have the softlock setting at 0 in the FFB/vibraton settings? Use at least 50 so the FFB "locks" the wheel to a stop.

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bogani said:
Msportdan said:

setting tyre or wheel friction doesn't do anything for me. only steer torque?!

I turned them all off and one by one boosted them. with no steering torque both frictions do not work. (probs obvious). But with bit of ST I didn't notice either friction levels.. only the ST.

You can't have the damper setting at zero in the driver if you want the friction settings to work! I also felt puzzled at first, as I never have the damper activated on my T500. 

True story :)

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This is a repost from GTplanet as the members thought my input might be of value to Codemasters. I apologize to the hardworking developers in advance, but I am truly of the opinion that if you wish to develop a sim... you're working in the wrong direction. Please continue to read.

ps. If further feedback is required, please contact me via PM at GTplanet.net. Thank you.

Original post: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/dirt-rally-steam-early-access-patch-v-04-5-released-ffb-update-more-supported-wheels.327540/page-13#post-10788094

-----------------------------------------------

I don't care, i'll give my verdict anyway.

I can sum it up in one word right away, and I am sure everyone can guess it in 3 tries or less. Let me explain myself though.

Now first let me say that I am a Lancia Delta owner myself. I own chassis type 836, and type 831 is the famous integrale. Today I just drove some Dutch backroads (the kind from youtube channel "RallyMedia" by Joost Schouten) and even caught a ditch or two whilst I was taking 90 degree corners and tighter. All while avoiding traffic on this small road. It might be a tarmac road, but I did get a sense of the pull you can get in a car.

That set as my background... let's get cracking.

Equipment used: CSWv2 + CShub with 350mm rim + CSS-SQ 1.0 + CSPv2

Event type: Custom Event
Track: Argolis, Greece - Koryfi Dafni
Car: Lancia Delta S4

When I drove this car the car felt completely unresponsive. When combined with the new FFB that follows the contours of the track (it pulls you towards dips/pot holes) the car would still just plow straight ahead even when the FFB indicated the tyres were pulling and rolling into the dip or pot holes. The truth is that this didn't seem to be the case, and caused an immediate disconnect for me between FFB and tyre model, or even between FFB and steering rack.

That thought was further amplified as I started to tweak my SEN values, or soft lock via steering wheel. At first I had soft lock in game to ON and as the changelog of Codemasters suggested the Lancia Delta S4 has a lock of 900 degrees.
When I turned down my lock-to-lock setting from default (AUT (...automatic)) to a reduced value of 540 degrees I noticed that the FFB effect of pulling into the dips and pot holes got more in line with what the tyres were actually doing.
What that means is that if the FFB effect would pull the steeringwheel (the one on your desk/rig) a certain amount of degrees that those degrees of rotation would than turn the front wheels enough towards the right or left to make the tyres respond correctly. Cause remember the position sensor in your FFB steering wheel dictates the direction your front wheels are pointing at, so if FFB and tyre model are not in sync you get the above. A tyre model that doesn't respond and lets the car go straight, all while your steeringwheel's FFB steers you into a pot-hole that doesn't exist for the physical simulation of the tyre.

In fact this is a beautiful example of faulty physics programming.
If it was correctly programmed the physical tyre model would follow the contours of the road surface. If the tyre steers to a direction, this would push a tie-rod. That tie-rod is connected to a steering rack. That steering rack dictates the rotation of the steering wheel, which is exactly what the FFB does as well.
The FFB signal drives your FFB motor that turns your steering wheel. That steering wheel position is than fed back into the physics engine of the game.

What happens in Dirt Rally is that the FFB is dictation the position of the front wheels, which isn't the issue. The issue is that the FFB signal is not derived from the steering rack. In other words it is not derived from the actual movement of the tyre, and thus it is NOT related to the tyre model in any way.

Because the FFB signal is completely faked and not physics based you have this addity where the tyre model is still a model made with 270 degrees of rotation in mind, but the FFB model is now made with 1080 degrees max in mind.
So what happens is that at anything above 270 degrees of rotation in Dirt Rally the cars will feel irresponsive to you the player.
This I varified by setting my lock-to-lock on the wheel to 270 degrees, at which point the FFB came in sync with the tyre model. However, because the forces are completely fake I still did not feel any connection with the car.

The other effects next to the pull felt the same as it did in the past to me. Nothing new to report there.

Also the tyre model is probably an old Brush Tyre Model with a two stage construction. A low speed stage (which is basic in its nature) and a high speed stage (which is the more advanced one). Hence the irresponsive character when taking slow corners like hairpins. This is because the only focus has been the high speed model, but as we all know... with rally you have a lot of slow corners. So this old tyre model is not a good choice for a rally sim where you often quickly transition from high to low speeds to high speeds again. So for a rally sim it would be of the essence to have a advanced tyre model (like pCARS's SETA Tyre Model) that works equally detailed and accurate from standstill till top speed and beyond. This to ensure a consistant and natural response througout the speed ranges.


All in all... for me Dirt Rally is Arcade with the capital A. It should be ashamed of itself to call itself a sim, cause absolutely NOTHING is simulated in this game. Well apart from a tyre model that dates back to probably the ToCA games.

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and my verdict of the game in this stage of development. I read they would stop the early-access before Christmas 2015. With that in mind... god help us, cause they need a miracle to turn this game into a sim if they want it released before Christmas 2015.

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Copied from the Steam forums, but wanted to post it here in case anyone else found it useful:

Want to start this off with a big +1 to Codies, cause this FFB update has transformed the game!! It feels so good now!

Ok so onto it, I am using a Fanatec Clubsport wheel with the BMW rim.

On the wheel:
Sensitivity: 900 degrees
FFB: 100
SHO (vibration): 100
ABS: Off
Linearity: Off
Deadzone: Off
Drift: Off
Force: 100
Spring: 0
Damper: 0

In the driver properties
900 degrees
0 dampening

Advanced wheel settings (in game):
All deadzones to 0
All saturations to 100%
Soft lock on
Calibrate your wheel to 900 degrees in this page following the setup wizard

FFB (in game)
Self aligning torque: 110
Wheel friction: 105
Tire friction: 105
Suspension: 125
Tire slip: 115
Collision: 120
Soft lock: 100


I like a bit stronger of FFB and I don't know how other wheels would feel with these settings but it friggen blew my tits off with my CSW. The suspension is set higher cause I like a little rumble feeling when driving on gravel. Tarmac is kinda iffy still in the physics and FFB department I've mainly been testing this setup on gravel stages.

And as far as keeping the soft lock at 100 and 900 degrees, it just adds to the realism and big time adds to the fun factor. Keeping the steering ratio the same as the real world car's is something I've always liked to do. With the new FFB it helps you instead of fighting you like it used to. Take a 70's RWD with 900 degree steering out at Greece or Wales and you'll be spinning the wheel like never before, but it feels natural and amazing. Really transformed the game for me!!

After 80+ hours fighting the wheel, this is an absolute god send. Thank you Codies!

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I've tried out the new settings last night,  god bless you cm :-) I must say I had some troubles driving but when I get the hang of it its gonna be great. It's the most realistic rally game people just need to practise more....

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griev0r said:
Copied from the Steam forums, but wanted to post it here in case anyone else found it useful:

Want to start this off with a big +1 to Codies, cause this FFB update has transformed the game!! It feels so good now!

Ok so onto it, I am using a Fanatec Clubsport wheel with the BMW rim.

On the wheel:
Sensitivity: 900 degrees
FFB: 100
SHO (vibration): 100
ABS: Off
Linearity: Off
Deadzone: Off
Drift: Off
Force: 100
Spring: 0
Damper: 0

In the driver properties
900 degrees
0 dampening

Advanced wheel settings (in game):
All deadzones to 0
All saturations to 100%
Soft lock on
Calibrate your wheel to 900 degrees in this page following the setup wizard

FFB (in game)
Self aligning torque: 110
Wheel friction: 105
Tire friction: 105
Suspension: 125
Tire slip: 115
Collision: 120
Soft lock: 100


I like a bit stronger of FFB and I don't know how other wheels would feel with these settings but it friggen blew my tits off with my CSW. The suspension is set higher cause I like a little rumble feeling when driving on gravel. Tarmac is kinda iffy still in the physics and FFB department I've mainly been testing this setup on gravel stages.

And as far as keeping the soft lock at 100 and 900 degrees, it just adds to the realism and big time adds to the fun factor. Keeping the steering ratio the same as the real world car's is something I've always liked to do. With the new FFB it helps you instead of fighting you like it used to. Take a 70's RWD with 900 degree steering out at Greece or Wales and you'll be spinning the wheel like never before, but it feels natural and amazing. Really transformed the game for me!!

After 80+ hours fighting the wheel, this is an absolute god send. Thank you Codies!

As you have damper set at 0 the wheel and tire friction has no effect at all. 

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I must say thanks to Codemasters for releasing a Rally game that i was waiting for so long. The FFB is great. I enjoy it a lot :)
Think about a Rally Raid like Dakar. It would be wonderful ;)
Till now what you guys are doing with Dirt Rally is awesome. Keep up the good work.

THANK YOU CODEMASTERS!!! :smiley: 

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It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
So you're saying Project Cars is an arcade racer? 

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 :D Project Cars wanna be a Sim, but developers want to let it to
the people very soon, with much job without finish... and this circunstance make it (the game) much arcade than people thought in first moment...

Project Cars is not our rival... No sense to talk about it...

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MBColin said:
 :D Project Cars wanna be a Sim, but developers want to let it to
the people very soon, with much job without finish... and this circunstance make it (the game) much arcade than people thought in first moment...

Project Cars is not our rival... No sense to talk about it...
Bugs being present doesn't make a game 'arcadey'. Their physics, FFB and tyre model is one of the most complicated you can find and works great.

I agree though, OT so let's give it a rest. 

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Today it happen for the second time since the release of the FFB patch that after playing a while in the peugot 205 T16 evo 2 on monte carlo that the engine sound drops, and it looks like youre driving a electric car.
Rest of the sounds stays normal.
Now this makes no sense to me as in that patch nothing is done on audio files isn't it?
Never had this pre patch and now 2 times.
It isn't my headset I tested that and I need to reboot the game to get the engine sound back
Am i the only one that have this?

Oh and I am using a G35 headset.

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