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Patch V 04.5 - The one with the Force Feedback

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Logi86 said:
This is a repost from GTplanet as the members thought my input might be of value to Codemasters. I apologize to the hardworking developers in advance, but I am truly of the opinion that if you wish to develop a sim... you're working in the wrong direction. Please continue to read.

ps. If further feedback is required, please contact me via PM at GTplanet.net. Thank you.

Original post: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/dirt-rally-steam-early-access-patch-v-04-5-released-ffb-update-more-supported-wheels.327540/page-13#post-10788094





Care care to explain who you are, and your experiences in the gaming industry are?

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Hey there, i have the same problem as @dgeesi0 , but i don't won't to turn off  "self aligning torque".
I have MOMO Racing (this one: http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/073706/logitech-momo-racing-force.jpg )
I was playing with settings but it didn't help at all ;)
Whell was calibrated few times of course.

Game is bad ass, but patch destroyed the gaming for me.  Keeping car on the road (especialy on fast sections) is impossible. Car start to dance like creazy, becoming super oversteer on the straight road :/

Is there any way to have back old force feedback? It was perfect for my wheel ;)

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Hello fellow drivers!

Collision is not working for me. It is supposed if we hit a rigid body we could feel it, am i right? But i don't feel anything

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It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
hahahahahahahah genuine laugh out loud moment :D

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misterdog said:

Bugs being present doesn't make a game 'arcadey'. Their physics, FFB and tyre model is one of the most complicated you can find and works great.

I agree though, OT so let's give it a rest. 
FFB and Tyre Model is one of the most complicated?

I think this game isn't the perfect example for a Good FFB and Tyre Model... If you said Assetto Corsa or rFactor2... Well I think these are more complex and worked FFB, Tyre Model, Mass balance, Suspensions,.... And everything else.... In this order as well...

This two games are for PC players, with more expectatives of what a SIM had to be.... IMO... And developers of these games (Kunos Simulazione and ISI), has a long career making titles of pure simulation, Codemasters is doing a great Dirt "Sim" Rally as well...

Other circunstance is the feeling that everyone have with his particular wheel, diferent wheels give us diferent feelings, but if I compare feelings between games with my old G27, this FFB Update feels great and is one big step beyond for Dirt Rally, like other titles I'd said before...

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im not sure its a good idea that sims rely on the driver damper to work in the driver profiler, before it works in game. I dont have any damper on my wheel as it ruins a majority of game. SOme reason this and RRE want you to have that enabled to work, cant sims have an standalone damper to work?

regarding ffb. i think the feeling on gravel is the best ive experienced, on tarmac still needs work. Ive driven a WRC sti on gravel, and it has quite a loose feel to it, it very unlike driving on a normal road.

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bogani said:
griev0r said:
Copied from the Steam forums, but wanted to post it here in case anyone else found it useful:

Want to start this off with a big +1 to Codies, cause this FFB update has transformed the game!! It feels so good now!

Ok so onto it, I am using a Fanatec Clubsport wheel with the BMW rim.

On the wheel:
Sensitivity: 900 degrees
FFB: 100
SHO (vibration): 100
ABS: Off
Linearity: Off
Deadzone: Off
Drift: Off
Force: 100
Spring: 0
Damper: 0

In the driver properties
900 degrees
0 dampening

Advanced wheel settings (in game):
All deadzones to 0
All saturations to 100%
Soft lock on
Calibrate your wheel to 900 degrees in this page following the setup wizard

FFB (in game)
Self aligning torque: 110
Wheel friction: 105
Tire friction: 105
Suspension: 125
Tire slip: 115
Collision: 120
Soft lock: 100


I like a bit stronger of FFB and I don't know how other wheels would feel with these settings but it friggen blew my tits off with my CSW. The suspension is set higher cause I like a little rumble feeling when driving on gravel. Tarmac is kinda iffy still in the physics and FFB department I've mainly been testing this setup on gravel stages.

And as far as keeping the soft lock at 100 and 900 degrees, it just adds to the realism and big time adds to the fun factor. Keeping the steering ratio the same as the real world car's is something I've always liked to do. With the new FFB it helps you instead of fighting you like it used to. Take a 70's RWD with 900 degree steering out at Greece or Wales and you'll be spinning the wheel like never before, but it feels natural and amazing. Really transformed the game for me!!

After 80+ hours fighting the wheel, this is an absolute god send. Thank you Codies!

As you have damper set at 0 the wheel and tire friction has no effect at all. 
I don't think that's true, as far as I know dampening just kinda gives the wheel a bit of artificial weight and masks a lot of the forces coming from the sim.

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griev0r said:
bogani said:
griev0r said:
Copied from the Steam forums, but wanted to post it here in case anyone else found it useful:

Want to start this off with a big +1 to Codies, cause this FFB update has transformed the game!! It feels so good now!

Ok so onto it, I am using a Fanatec Clubsport wheel with the BMW rim.

On the wheel:
Sensitivity: 900 degrees
FFB: 100
SHO (vibration): 100
ABS: Off
Linearity: Off
Deadzone: Off
Drift: Off
Force: 100
Spring: 0
Damper: 0

In the driver properties
900 degrees
0 dampening

Advanced wheel settings (in game):
All deadzones to 0
All saturations to 100%
Soft lock on
Calibrate your wheel to 900 degrees in this page following the setup wizard

FFB (in game)
Self aligning torque: 110
Wheel friction: 105
Tire friction: 105
Suspension: 125
Tire slip: 115
Collision: 120
Soft lock: 100


I like a bit stronger of FFB and I don't know how other wheels would feel with these settings but it friggen blew my tits off with my CSW. The suspension is set higher cause I like a little rumble feeling when driving on gravel. Tarmac is kinda iffy still in the physics and FFB department I've mainly been testing this setup on gravel stages.

And as far as keeping the soft lock at 100 and 900 degrees, it just adds to the realism and big time adds to the fun factor. Keeping the steering ratio the same as the real world car's is something I've always liked to do. With the new FFB it helps you instead of fighting you like it used to. Take a 70's RWD with 900 degree steering out at Greece or Wales and you'll be spinning the wheel like never before, but it feels natural and amazing. Really transformed the game for me!!

After 80+ hours fighting the wheel, this is an absolute god send. Thank you Codies!

As you have damper set at 0 the wheel and tire friction has no effect at all. 
I don't think that's true, as far as I know dampening just kinda gives the wheel a bit of artificial weight and masks a lot of the forces coming from the sim.
You don't have to believe me, but as the wheel/tire frictions forces both use the damper to mimic friction, they do not work if you have the damper disabled in the driver. 

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Hmm, guess I'll have to do some testing with that.  I never use dampening in any sims cause it always just caused the wheel to be sluggish and heavy while masking the effects coming from the physics.  Would like to hear the dev's take on this.

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Today it happen for the second time since the release of the FFB patch that after playing a while in the peugot 205 T16 evo 2 on monte carlo that the engine sound drops, and it looks like youre driving a electric car.
Rest of the sounds stays normal.
Now this makes no sense to me as in that patch nothing is done on audio files isn't it?
Never had this pre patch and now 2 times.
It isn't my headset I tested that and I need to reboot the game to get the engine sound back
Am i the only one that have this?

Oh and I am using a G35 headset.
I had this happen before the most recent patch. There's another weird thing in monte carlo where you restart after going off and the whole screen stays blurry. Both these problems require you to exit and aren't fixed by restarting the run. Don't think either of these are relevant to this thread tho. 

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It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
I never used the word arcade my friend. Yes, I have been having my say at SMS within WMD in the same way I do here towards Codemasters. I did this particularly in the physics and FFB areas.

Feel free to convince me factually and not with subjective opinion as to why Dirt Rally in your eyes is being a full blown simulation game.

MBColin said:
 :D Project Cars wanna be a Sim, but developers want to let it to
the people very soon, with much job without finish... and this circunstance make it (the game) much arcade than people thought in first moment...

Project Cars is not our rival... No sense to talk about it...
Project CARS is your rival, because with Project CARS 2 it will go off-road. The foundation at the start of Project CARS to was that of a dated tyre model, FFB model and so on from the Shift series. In the exact same way that the EGO engine is now dated.
It took SMS almost 4 years to basically put in a completely new foundation into the Madness engine with a new tyre model and FFB model among other things.  A basis that is up to snuff with current technology and computational power.

I do know there are bugs, but the basis of Project CARS is not arcade in nature at all. If you feel that is the case you should spend less time in your simulator rig and more time behind the wheel of a real car. After all, when we simulate we simulate reality and not another game. So comparing games is useless as every developer has a different approach, but we can compare our real life experience to how well something is simulated in a game.

dgeesi0 said:
It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
hahahahahahahah genuine laugh out loud moment :D
Explain as to why you laugh? Or are you of the camp that to harder it is to drive the more correct a simulation is? Cause if that's the case I urge you to drive a car hard in real life, but only if the situation permits and safety is not compromised to you or others.

MBColin said:
misterdog said:

Bugs being present doesn't make a game 'arcadey'. Their physics, FFB and tyre model is one of the most complicated you can find and works great.

I agree though, OT so let's give it a rest. 
FFB and Tyre Model is one of the most complicated?

I think this game isn't the perfect example for a Good FFB and Tyre Model... If you said Assetto Corsa or rFactor2... Well I think these are more complex and worked FFB, Tyre Model, Mass balance, Suspensions,.... And everything else.... In this order as well...

This two games are for PC players, with more expectatives of what a SIM had to be.... IMO... And developers of these games (Kunos Simulazione and ISI), has a long career making titles of pure simulation, Codemasters is doing a great Dirt "Sim" Rally as well...

Other circunstance is the feeling that everyone have with his particular wheel, diferent wheels give us diferent feelings, but if I compare feelings between games with my old G27, this FFB Update feels great and is one big step beyond for Dirt Rally, like other titles I'd said before...
Actually you are incorrect on the matter of Assetto Corsa. Modders are now discovery that Kunos is using shortcuts in their physics engine and that means things start to break down for them. Personally when I make changes to the cars setups it's doing the wrong things as well that don't relate to what would happen in real life, which already starts at how the tyre model reacts to tyre pressure changes.
I agree, Project CARS still has many areas to improve as well, but not the tyre model. The FFB model, maybe as it doesn't really do well with low torque wheels. Feels great with a CSWv2 though.
rFactor 2 is a bit of a different beast. Their tyre model has a database of data from which it derives the physics responds. A fair way to do it, but different from Project CARS' live calculations. It does mean the rFactor 2 tyre model is able to work at a far higher resolution than that of Project CARS as the computation is already done before hand by ISI themselves. With Project CARS a complex calculation has to be completed instantly.
Personally I prefer the three games in this order. pCARS -> rF2 -> AC. rFactor 2 is a close second for me, and I do love the laserscanned tracks of AC as laserscans means getting the track indulations right.

I read that you use a G27. I see why our reviews can so easily be so far apart. I use a CSWv2 and that just has far more torque and is a lot more accurate (especially with the last firmware/drivers). With the G25 (in my case) I could easily hold the wheel still as the torque could not over power me, but as I moved up to T500 -> CSWv1 -> CSWv2 I started to struggle more and more with keeping the wheel straight. This also meant I started to struggle with faked or added in effects like weight transfer as it steered the car in the wrong way of what it would want to do in real life. Which resulted in spin-outs and death wiggles.
The point is that what with the G27 might feel like a nice weighty and correct feel might feel too strong and wrong with a CSWv2. This because torque increase scales the FFB effects linearly. So when your FFB follows a ditch it doesn't pull the wheel as much as it does with my CSWv2, so the more torque the more exaggerated the effects become.
The trick lies in this. This only applies to faked FFB effects, because if the FFB was derived from the tyre model and basically a simulation of the steering rack, like in pCARS, a certain amount of tyre rotation at a physics level would just be a certain amount of wheel rotation and nothing more. Which is of course dependent on lock-to-lock and steering ratio, etc.
The only downside is with a steering rack based FFB simulation system is that the FFB will feel weak on low torque steering wheels like your G27, and SMS and us WMD members have been struggling with this to improve this.  I am sure you might have noticed most complaints coming from those with low power wheels. ;)


So no, I didn't call Dirt Rally arcade. I did say that the EGO engine was aged and it needs a upgrade of the basis to this day and age to be called a sim. With that I mean a sim that can compare itself to other popular sims on the market.
The reason why I am strict with the developer is because of their rather arrogant company name, Codemasters. If they are Codemasters they should stop trying to make workarounds and make an old engine fit in a modern day. Instead they should upgrade the game at its core to what us sim racers desire in this day and age. If they are truly masters of code they should be able to do it, but I don't think they are able to do so before their supposedly early access end date.

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I totally agree with Logi86 (not the post above...a site earlier or so...) on his explanation of the tyre model, it seems that it actually IS only 270 degrees. I tested my G27 with several degrees yesterday and today, nothing feels right except the 270. I hope devs have this in mind...

Btw 540 degrees lock on a WRC is right for sure, but none of the WRC-Drivers is actually driving with such an high degree number. I've compared the steering wheel rotation of Sardinia (which is a narrow tricky treat in some sections) and my own at 540 degrees and it looks totally different, especially in the narrow sections.

Sorry for my bad english, I hope everybody can understand what I have in mind.

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Logi86 said:


All in all... for me Dirt Rally is Arcade with the capital A. It should be ashamed of itself to call itself a sim, cause absolutely NOTHING is simulated in this game. Well apart from a tyre model that dates back to probably the ToCA games.

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and my verdict of the game in this stage of development. I read they would stop the early-access before Christmas 2015. With that in mind... god help us, cause they need a miracle to turn this game into a sim if they want it released before Christmas 2015.
@Logi86 now unless I've forgotten how to read in the last few hours. (There's every chance) then right in this quote it says 'for me DiRT Rally is Arcade with the capital A'  So yes you did call DR 'arcade' 

and as for your stupid comment about the company name....  :s

Again, I will ask who you are and what your experiences are in the gaming industry, and driving rally cars in real life? 

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Logi86 said:


All in all... for me Dirt Rally is Arcade with the capital A. It should be ashamed of itself to call itself a sim, cause absolutely NOTHING is simulated in this game. Well apart from a tyre model that dates back to probably the ToCA games.

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and my verdict of the game in this stage of development. I read they would stop the early-access before Christmas 2015. With that in mind... god help us, cause they need a miracle to turn this game into a sim if they want it released before Christmas 2015.
@Logi86 now unless I've forgotten how to read in the last few hours. (There's every chance) then right in this quote it says 'for me DiRT Rally is Arcade with the capital A'  So yes you did call DR 'arcade' 

and as for your stupid comment about the company name....  :s

Again, I will ask who you are and what your experiences are in the gaming industry, and driving rally cars in real life? 
Logi is a very well respected member of quite a few forums I frequent. I believe before he wrote his original post over on GT Planet he took his own Integrale out on some back roads around his home and drove it 'hard' before driving it in Dirt Rally just to compare the steering sensation. Logi is a great guy, if I was making a game I would listen to his opinion and input as he will definitely give you some good pointers.

I haven't tried the updated ffb in Dirt Rally yet but will sure to give it a spin and compare opinion to that go Logi's.

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Logi86 said:
It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
I never used the word arcade my friend. Yes, I have been having my say at SMS within WMD in the same way I do here towards Codemasters. I did this particularly in the physics and FFB areas.

Feel free to convince me factually and not with subjective opinion as to why Dirt Rally in your eyes is being a full blown simulation game.

MBColin said:
 :D Project Cars wanna be a Sim, but developers want to let it to
the people very soon, with much job without finish... and this circunstance make it (the game) much arcade than people thought in first moment...

Project Cars is not our rival... No sense to talk about it...
Project CARS is your rival, because with Project CARS 2 it will go off-road. The foundation at the start of Project CARS to was that of a dated tyre model, FFB model and so on from the Shift series. In the exact same way that the EGO engine is now dated.
It took SMS almost 4 years to basically put in a completely new foundation into the Madness engine with a new tyre model and FFB model among other things.  A basis that is up to snuff with current technology and computational power.

I do know there are bugs, but the basis of Project CARS is not arcade in nature at all. If you feel that is the case you should spend less time in your simulator rig and more time behind the wheel of a real car. After all, when we simulate we simulate reality and not another game. So comparing games is useless as every developer has a different approach, but we can compare our real life experience to how well something is simulated in a game.

dgeesi0 said:
It's ironic that Logi86 calls DiRT Rally arcade, yet he has a ProjectCARS logo on his GT Planet avatar...
hahahahahahahah genuine laugh out loud moment :D
Explain as to why you laugh? Or are you of the camp that to harder it is to drive the more correct a simulation is? Cause if that's the case I urge you to drive a car hard in real life, but only if the situation permits and safety is not compromised to you or others.

MBColin said:
misterdog said:

Bugs being present doesn't make a game 'arcadey'. Their physics, FFB and tyre model is one of the most complicated you can find and works great.

I agree though, OT so let's give it a rest. 
FFB and Tyre Model is one of the most complicated?

I think this game isn't the perfect example for a Good FFB and Tyre Model... If you said Assetto Corsa or rFactor2... Well I think these are more complex and worked FFB, Tyre Model, Mass balance, Suspensions,.... And everything else.... In this order as well...

This two games are for PC players, with more expectatives of what a SIM had to be.... IMO... And developers of these games (Kunos Simulazione and ISI), has a long career making titles of pure simulation, Codemasters is doing a great Dirt "Sim" Rally as well...

Other circunstance is the feeling that everyone have with his particular wheel, diferent wheels give us diferent feelings, but if I compare feelings between games with my old G27, this FFB Update feels great and is one big step beyond for Dirt Rally, like other titles I'd said before...
Actually you are incorrect on the matter of Assetto Corsa. Modders are now discovery that Kunos is using shortcuts in their physics engine and that means things start to break down for them. Personally when I make changes to the cars setups it's doing the wrong things as well that don't relate to what would happen in real life, which already starts at how the tyre model reacts to tyre pressure changes.
I agree, Project CARS still has many areas to improve as well, but not the tyre model. The FFB model, maybe as it doesn't really do well with low torque wheels. Feels great with a CSWv2 though.
rFactor 2 is a bit of a different beast. Their tyre model has a database of data from which it derives the physics responds. A fair way to do it, but different from Project CARS' live calculations. It does mean the rFactor 2 tyre model is able to work at a far higher resolution than that of Project CARS as the computation is already done before hand by ISI themselves. With Project CARS a complex calculation has to be completed instantly.
Personally I prefer the three games in this order. pCARS -> rF2 -> AC. rFactor 2 is a close second for me, and I do love the laserscanned tracks of AC as laserscans means getting the track indulations right.

I read that you use a G27. I see why our reviews can so easily be so far apart. I use a CSWv2 and that just has far more torque and is a lot more accurate (especially with the last firmware/drivers). With the G25 (in my case) I could easily hold the wheel still as the torque could not over power me, but as I moved up to T500 -> CSWv1 -> CSWv2 I started to struggle more and more with keeping the wheel straight. This also meant I started to struggle with faked or added in effects like weight transfer as it steered the car in the wrong way of what it would want to do in real life. Which resulted in spin-outs and death wiggles.
The point is that what with the G27 might feel like a nice weighty and correct feel might feel too strong and wrong with a CSWv2. This because torque increase scales the FFB effects linearly. So when your FFB follows a ditch it doesn't pull the wheel as much as it does with my CSWv2, so the more torque the more exaggerated the effects become.
The trick lies in this. This only applies to faked FFB effects, because if the FFB was derived from the tyre model and basically a simulation of the steering rack, like in pCARS, a certain amount of tyre rotation at a physics level would just be a certain amount of wheel rotation and nothing more. Which is of course dependent on lock-to-lock and steering ratio, etc.
The only downside is with a steering rack based FFB simulation system is that the FFB will feel weak on low torque steering wheels like your G27, and SMS and us WMD members have been struggling with this to improve this.  I am sure you might have noticed most complaints coming from those with low power wheels. ;)


So no, I didn't call Dirt Rally arcade. I did say that the EGO engine was aged and it needs a upgrade of the basis to this day and age to be called a sim. With that I mean a sim that can compare itself to other popular sims on the market.
The reason why I am strict with the developer is because of their rather arrogant company name, Codemasters. If they are Codemasters they should stop trying to make workarounds and make an old engine fit in a modern day. Instead they should upgrade the game at its core to what us sim racers desire in this day and age. If they are truly masters of code they should be able to do it, but I don't think they are able to do so before their supposedly early access end date.
Steering rack based FFB is great, but we need other effects as well to be able to tell what the car is doing as we can't feel weight shifting in our arse as we do IRL. 

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I'm not really sure what happened to the WRC 2010 cars. After the FFB update they feel undriveable to me. They are sooo sensitive and twitchy around the center of the steering. I used 540 pre patch as I do now.  

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@bogani try to reduce to 270 degrees, it would change it to a lot more stable experience (more stable feeling by lowering the degrees :D ). I had the same feeling as you have now, it should effect the '80s cars, too (if you tried them until now).

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bogani said:
I'm not really sure what happened to the WRC 2010 cars. After the FFB update they feel undriveable to me. They are sooo sensitive and twitchy around the center of the steering. I used 540 pre patch as I do now.  
Agree 100%. Not drivable after FFB patch. I don't know how rest of the cars, but Fiesta going sideways by it self on straight lol

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id rather be positive but dont worry about project cars and copy nothing from project cars. they have no idea !

i played that from first week in alpha . they never listened made the handling worse with each build.even after nearly 3 years and being released it still has the same old handling issues. the stig told them this so did many other players.

so if they bringing a rally game out expect it to be bad just like pcars is.

if you have issues with the ffb then you need to tweak adjust it.i was the same weas going to go off half cocked about it doesnt work or is broke then got the right settings and its amazing !

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Slim said:
Logi86 said:


All in all... for me Dirt Rally is Arcade with the capital A. It should be ashamed of itself to call itself a sim, cause absolutely NOTHING is simulated in this game. Well apart from a tyre model that dates back to probably the ToCA games.

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and my verdict of the game in this stage of development. I read they would stop the early-access before Christmas 2015. With that in mind... god help us, cause they need a miracle to turn this game into a sim if they want it released before Christmas 2015.
@Logi86 now unless I've forgotten how to read in the last few hours. (There's every chance) then right in this quote it says 'for me DiRT Rally is Arcade with the capital A'  So yes you did call DR 'arcade' 

and as for your stupid comment about the company name....  :s

Again, I will ask who you are and what your experiences are in the gaming industry, and driving rally cars in real life? 
Logi is a very well respected member of quite a few forums I frequent. I believe before he wrote his original post over on GT Planet he took his own Integrale out on some back roads around his home and drove it 'hard' before driving it in Dirt Rally just to compare the steering sensation. Logi is a great guy, if I was making a game I would listen to his opinion and input as he will definitely give you some good pointers.

I haven't tried the updated ffb in Dirt Rally yet but will sure to give it a spin and compare opinion to that go Logi's.
So the guy is a just a well respected sim racer who took his road car out for a drive? Ok then.

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chillyzy said:
bogani said:
I'm not really sure what happened to the WRC 2010 cars. After the FFB update they feel undriveable to me. They are sooo sensitive and twitchy around the center of the steering. I used 540 pre patch as I do now.  
Agree 100%. Not drivable after FFB patch. I don't know how rest of the cars, but Fiesta going sideways by it self on straight lol
I have no problems driving 540 with the Fiesta. Are you using Soft Lock? And did you calibrate the wheel correctly? I.E at the 2nd screen where it says to hold the wheel at 90 degrees did you hold it 90 at 540 and press OK?

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Slim said:
Logi86 said:


All in all... for me Dirt Rally is Arcade with the capital A. It should be ashamed of itself to call itself a sim, cause absolutely NOTHING is simulated in this game. Well apart from a tyre model that dates back to probably the ToCA games.

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and my verdict of the game in this stage of development. I read they would stop the early-access before Christmas 2015. With that in mind... god help us, cause they need a miracle to turn this game into a sim if they want it released before Christmas 2015.
@Logi86 now unless I've forgotten how to read in the last few hours. (There's every chance) then right in this quote it says 'for me DiRT Rally is Arcade with the capital A'  So yes you did call DR 'arcade' 

and as for your stupid comment about the company name....  :s

Again, I will ask who you are and what your experiences are in the gaming industry, and driving rally cars in real life? 
Logi is a very well respected member of quite a few forums I frequent. I believe before he wrote his original post over on GT Planet he took his own Integrale out on some back roads around his home and drove it 'hard' before driving it in Dirt Rally just to compare the steering sensation. Logi is a great guy, if I was making a game I would listen to his opinion and input as he will definitely give you some good pointers.

I haven't tried the updated ffb in Dirt Rally yet but will sure to give it a spin and compare opinion to that go Logi's.
So the guy is a just a well respected sim racer who took his road car out for a drive? Ok then.
You're not able to reply with something meaningful to counter his feedback are you?

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And you're not able to tell me what expertise he has other than driving his road car quickly and playing a few sim games and learning some stuff over the years. 

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And you're not able to tell me what expertise he has other than driving his road car quickly and playing a few sim games and learning some stuff over the years. 
Playing the man instead of the ball is what they call it.

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Still doesn't answer my question. I'd rather listen to the feedback from a former game project manager (with vast rally driving experience) and Kevin Abbring, you know the guy that is employed by the Hyundai world rally team. 

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