Thank You Codies Yet Again For This... (60fps on console)

[Jake Cushing 724]

ASSETTO COMPETIZIONE IS CAPPED AT 30FPS ON *ALL* CONSOLES!😂

... which doesn't bother me as I'm not a serious circuit racing player...

But THANK YOU again Codies for making 60fps on all consoles your baseline target. Even with DR1. My favourite racing genre, rally, gets this godsend. It might not have happened, they probably didn't *need* to do it. But by God I'm glad they did.

Shuddery, juddery console gaming has got to become a thing of the past. Even for arcade games, let alone serious racers.

 

[danielofifi 443]

On 6/26/2020 at 11:23 AM, Jake Cushing said:

ASSETTO COMPETIZIONE IS CAPPED AT 30FPS ON *ALL* CONSOLES!😂

... which doesn't bother me as I'm not a serious circuit racing player...

But THANK YOU again Codies for making 60fps on all consoles your baseline target. Even with DR1. My favourite racing genre, rally, gets this godsend. It might not have happened, they probably didn't *need* to do it. But by God I'm glad they did.

Shuddery, juddery console gaming has got to become a thing of the past. Even for arcade games, let alone serious racers.

 

Honestly, the physics in ACC are so good, if I could have this kind of tarmac handling in DR2 at the cost of 30 fps, I'd take it. It might be an unpopular opinion. When you're on PS4 and you jump from DR2 or PC2 into ACC, the difference in framerate is noticeable, but after a few laps you get so immersed, you forget about it.

Sure, if you're a proffessional sim racer, 30fps is going to be problem, but for people who play sims for fun and immersion, it's not that big of a deal. ACC is definitely the most realistic sim on consoles and I'm very happy it's here, even with its technical shortcomings. On the other hand, what is happening around Project Cars 3 at the moment, is shocking in my opinion.

Still, you're right that Codies should be applauded for managing to combine 60 fps with this kind of visual performance on consoles. The company name checks out I guess. 😉

Edited June 27 by danielofifi

[Jake Cushing 724]

But @danielofifi, aren't you accepting a compromise that has gone the wrong way? Surely a circuit racer could see 'graphical pretties' dialled down so that 60fps is the baseline, whilst maintaining the core physics intact? 

I just don't believe it's the physics that's muscling out the framerate, rather than a decision based on what the screenshots will look like. 

And then there is the question of the Xbox One X, 3 times as powerful as the other units - I could easily believe MS is dictating the same frame rate must be present across all consoles. 

[danielofifi 443]

3 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

 Surely a circuit racer could see 'graphical pretties' dialled down so that 60fps is the baseline, whilst maintaining the core physics intact? 

Actually I posted on reddit with the same question a day or two ago, there were different opinions, but the truth is, only Kunos know the truth. I'd definitely choose better framerate over graphics. There are rumours that there will be a patch to improve performance on PS4 Pro and XBox One X, but as far as I know it hasn't been confirmed.

[PJTierney 4,480]

15 hours ago, danielofifi said:

Actually I posted on reddit with the same question a day or two ago, there were different opinions, but the truth is, only Kunos know the truth. I'd definitely choose better framerate over graphics. There are rumours that there will be a patch to improve performance on PS4 Pro and XBox One X, but as far as I know it hasn't been confirmed.

With a game like that if it's not solid out of the box day 1 there's a chance its audience could move to another racing game if one is releasing around the same time.

Project CARS 2 had this challenge, in that it came out the same month as Forza Motorsport 7 and Gran Turismo Sport.

 

Assetto Corsa Competitzione's biggest challenger right now is F1 2020, which is only 2 weeks away and (combined with Forza/GT) has the potential to suck up all of their potential multiplayer drivers.

There's only so many racing games one can play really 😅

 

I have ACC on Steam since Early Access and I like the look of it, but frankly never got round to putting the time in. These days I've got DiRT Rally 2.0, Forza Motorsport 7 and soon F1 2020 on the go, so I'm not going to play it on console either, and by the time space frees up Project CARS 3 will be here, and after that who knows (rumours of a new Forza on Xbox Series X, and DIRT 5 is coming too).

This is why a racing game needs to be rock solid on launch, as the genre is highly competitive with many good titles out there fighting for your attention. Sadly, ACC on console seems to be missing the mark in some areas from the reviews I've seen.

[danielofifi 443]

1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

With a game like that if it's not solid out of the box day 1 there's a chance its audience could move to another racing game if one is releasing around the same time.

Project CARS 2 had this challenge, in that it came out the same month as Forza Motorsport 7 and Gran Turismo Sport.

 

Assetto Corsa Competitzione's biggest challenger right now is F1 2020, which is only 2 weeks away and (combined with Forza/GT) has the potential to suck up all of their potential multiplayer drivers.

There's only so many racing games one can play really 😅

 

I have ACC on Steam since Early Access and I like the look of it, but frankly never got round to putting the time in. These days I've got DiRT Rally 2.0, Forza Motorsport 7 and soon F1 2020 on the go, so I'm not going to play it on console either, and by the time space frees up Project CARS 3 will be here, and after that who knows (rumours of a new Forza on Xbox Series X, and DIRT 5 is coming too).

This is why a racing game needs to be rock solid on launch, as the genre is highly competitive with many good titles out there fighting for your attention. Sadly, ACC on console seems to be missing the mark in some areas from the reviews I've seen.

The only thing is, ACC is in a league of its own when it comes to driving physics, nothing else on consoles even comes close (I doubt F1 2020 will, with all respect), and for this reason alone I reckon that sim enthusiasts who play on consoles will not abandon it for other racing games, even with its flaws.

 

[MJV1973 115]

On 6/27/2020 at 3:48 PM, danielofifi said:

When you're on PS4 and you jump from DR2 or PC2 into ACC, the difference in framerate is noticeable, but after a few laps you get so immersed, you forget about it.

Actually more I play it more frustrated feeling it grows.
I like AC, PCars2, DiRT Rally 1/2 and GT Sports (F1 2019 not so much).
ACC on console has to be early access release, it feels so unfinished.

I´m on PS4 Pro, hopefully it will be better with PS5 and I hope also DR2.0 will release performance upgrade for next gen consoles, it´s best in class at least until DR3.0 comes.

[danielofifi 443]

3 minutes ago, MJV1973 said:

Actually more I play it more frustrated feeling it grows.
 

Really? I play on base PS4 and can't get enough, I barely even notice the low framerate anymore. Different people, different needs apparently.

[MJV1973 115]

Really, I expected something really good when watched videos from PC version.
This kind of games, surely physics are no:1 but if you compare it to GT Sports where is 4k textures, HDR and pretty good physics, ACC feels like it´s made at 90´s.
I have Fanatec v3 pedals, gas and brake vibrate all the time, I wonder why.
If I enable on screen display where you can adjust brake balance, lights etc...how you can disable that window? I don´t like use anykind of OSD. With ACC you can´t get OSD free screen or can you?
FOV adjust, it was on AC was it?

I invested 3000eur to simulator setup so I´m pretty excited of racing games.
Maby I should invest next 3000eur for PC.

[danielofifi 443]

19 minutes ago, MJV1973 said:

This kind of games, surely physics are no:1 but if you compare it to GT Sports where is 4k textures, HDR and pretty good physics, ACC feels like it´s made at 90´s.
 

It's true that GT Sport looks gorgeous, but I got bored of how simplified physics and ffb felt very quickly. It's night and day when compared to PC2 or AC, not to mention ACC.

22 minutes ago, MJV1973 said:

I have Fanatec v3 pedals, gas and brake vibrate all the time, I wonder why.

People report different bugs with ffb, it's probably one of them, and will probably be addressed in a patch. My Thrustmaster also malfunctions from time to time.

24 minutes ago, MJV1973 said:

If I enable on screen display where you can adjust brake balance, lights etc...how you can disable that window? I don´t like use anykind of OSD. With ACC you can´t get OSD free screen or can you?
FOV adjust, it was on AC was it?

There is a hud option, but I haven't looked into it. I haven't seen fov options either, and you're right that it was present in AC.

But you see, I can adapt to those inconveniences no problem, the amazing physics and sound are more than enough for me to love this game. I also love how ACC constantly rates your abilities like pace, consistency, safety etc. The whole experience is just so immersive and satisfying.

[PJTierney 4,480]

1 hour ago, danielofifi said:

The only thing is, ACC is in a league of its own when it comes to driving physics, nothing else on consoles even comes close (I doubt F1 2020 will, with all respect), and for this reason alone I reckon that sim enthusiasts who play on consoles will not abandon it for other racing games, even with its flaws.

This is true, but for a healthy multiplayer population you need a wide range of skill levels and people interested in sticking around, and if half the playerbase jumps off to F1 or something else, you're stuck with private lobby racing (which ACC doesn't even have as a feature at the moment).

I like that they decided to bring ACC to console, I hope they iron out their issues as more decent racing games to choose from is always a good thing.

[Jake Cushing 724]

I kind of wish Codies had included "60 FPS ON ALL CONSOLES!"  as a banner on all their marketing images for DR2.0.

It would have helped sales, and more importantly driven the change in expectations which is only for the best. I believe there is still a hang-over of the mentality that console players are more casual and not as discriminating as PC gamers, which might be true overall, but is not accurate for a growing portion of serious racers who use consoles. Life is so much easier with a console and TV than a PC - crashes, driver updates, incompatibilities, arcane disc drive hacks to overcome stuttering, etc etc. I gave up on PC gaming 20 years ago, and nothing has changed in that respect. It will continue forever.

60 fps is not only much more immersive, it helps so much with finer control nuance. It should have become standard across all racers with this generation of consoles. It could have even been standard with the Xbox 360 era. There is so much power now in consoles that it is silly for compromises like this just in order to get screenshots that look super moody.

 

Edited July 1 by Jake Cushing

[richie 516]

Some people said the physics justify 30FPS. They don't. Frame rates are more important than resolution imo, you need smooth gameplay. I get that the basic Xbox One is the weakest link and that the game has to work fine on that console, and I don't know if they had the choice but if they preferred resolution over FPS then that was the worst idea. Frame rates are so bad it truly ruins the experience for me. 

Edited July 2 by richie

[Kjell007 106]

On 6/28/2020 at 3:49 PM, danielofifi said:

I can adapt to those inconveniences no problem, the amazing physics and sound are more than enough for me to love this game. I also love how ACC constantly rates your abilities like pace, consistency, safety etc. The whole experience is just so immersive and satisfying.

This is so true! I’ve been away from DR2.0 for a week or so now, after investing in ACC on PS4PRO. Since I don’t have a simrig, I sit in my couch driving with the stock DualShock4, and after tweeking a bit (Deadzone 5%, speed sensitivity 10%, steer filter 25%, steer speed 10%), the cars handles excellent using the stick. 😎 I really recommend this game for those who appreciate authenticity and realism. Assetto Corsa Competizione has three important features that should be in any racing simulator, including Dirt Rally 2.0:
(1) Driver rating system that tracks EVERYTHING you do in the game both online and offline, including pratice sessions(!). Why can’t a rally game track track competence, consistency, car control, pace, safety and race craft? This tracking system encourage and teach the player to do proper driving, something that really is missing in DR2.0

(2) Proper stats and progress tracking. ACC has solved this quite simple but still excellent with a track sheet showing all the circuits with total distance driven, total time driven, number of valid laps, invalid laps, races, finished races, wins, podiums, penalties, served and dsq (disqualifications), and personal best (from any game mode, not just «time attack»). If you select any of the tracks, you zoom into a new sheet with the same details broken down by car model.

(3) It is possible to be on top of the leaderboards when racing against the AI on easy in career mode, unlike in DR2.0. 😁

Edited July 5 by Kjell007

[PJTierney 4,480]

Regarding ACC, I watched the Digital Foundry video over the weekend.

It seems that issue isn't necessarily the 30fps, but the fact that it's not locked (sits between 30 and 40) and therefore appears juddery, that's what's making it appear rough.

You compare that to any Forza Horizon game and they are rock-solid 30fps (on base Xbox One) with decent motion blur, and they feel as smooth as 60.

[chukonu 466]

In what world does "rock-solid 30fps" feel as smooth as 60fps?

[PJTierney 4,480]

12 minutes ago, chukonu said:

In what world does "rock-solid 30fps" feel as smooth as 60fps?

It doesn't in the literal sense, but after 10-20 minutes of playing it isn't as jarring as you'd expect, when implemented well.

I vastly prefer 60fps either way, and if a game has a "performance mode" that scaled visuals down to 1080p for that framerate I switch it on Day 1 😄 

[richie 516]

20 hours ago, Kjell007 said:

(1) Driver rating system that tracks EVERYTHING you do in the game both online and offline, including pratice sessions(!). Why can’t a rally game track track competence, consistency, car control, pace, safety and race craft? This tracking system encourage and teach the player to do proper driving, something that really is missing in DR2.0

The rating system is some kind of a track and driving guide in the beginning but later it is purely there for the online system, for matchmaking and to promote clean racing. Makes totally sense in circuit racing as you're on track with other cars but it doesn't for rallying in my view. You don't really need a safety rating in RX as it clearly is a contact sport and I don't know if it'd be worth introducing a performance rating for online. 

 

11 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Regarding ACC, I watched the Digital Foundry video over the weekend.

It seems that issue isn't necessarily the 30fps, but the fact that it's not locked (sits between 30 and 40) and therefore appears juddery, that's what's making it appear rough.

You compare that to any Forza Horizon game and they are rock-solid 30fps (on base Xbox One) with decent motion blur, and they feel as smooth as 60.

Yeah, I've seen that video as well, people say it's a frame pacing issue. It's really bad, very hard judging corner entry speed. Can't say I'm enjoying it tbf. 

I honestly thought Horizon games are 60FPS, looks really smooth from what I've seen. 

[Kjell007 106]

13 hours ago, richie said:

The rating system is some kind of a track and driving guide in the beginning but later it is purely there for the online system, for matchmaking and to promote clean racing. Makes totally sense in circuit racing as you're on track with other cars but it doesn't for rallying in my view. You don't really need a safety rating in RX as it clearly is a contact sport and I don't know if it'd be worth introducing a performance rating for online. 

I’m not saying that the system should be exactly like the one in ACC, but a system that give the player feedback on their driving style, pace and so on, so that you are  ENCOURAGE to drive the proper way. As it is now, DR2.0 give no such support. As for RX, I have given up on that mode long time ago. The AI is waaay better than me, even on the easiest settings, and I have no clue of why, so I’ve just lost interest completely... Under any circumstances, online gaming is not for me, still I enjoy the rating system in ACC. 😉👍🏻

[Jake Cushing 724]

Has anybody played DR2.0 on PC at over 100 fps, and compared with the console 60fps? Just wondering if it feels any different. 120hz will become a thing next, which is good, but it must be diminishing returns from 60 upwards...

[PJTierney 4,480]

I watched a video recently where somebody compared sim racing in different framerates. It seemed for him the sweet spot was around 80-100 in how it improved the smoothness of his driving.

[Leo Natan 285]

On 7/6/2020 at 11:05 AM, PJTierney said:

Regarding ACC, I watched the Digital Foundry video over the weekend.

It seems that issue isn't necessarily the 30fps, but the fact that it's not locked (sits between 30 and 40) and therefore appears juddery, that's what's making it appear rough.

Epic fail by the developers. They switched to UE, which is terrible for racing, killed modding on PC, and couldn’t get it running faster than 40fps, and didn’t even lock it. 🤦‍♂️😂 Complete technical failure. Do you know if it was a porting house or done internally? On PC it has been out for a while. 

[PJTierney 4,480]

No idea, haven't looked into it too much.

What I found interesting in that video was that base PS4 was getting higher average framerates than PS4 Pro 😮 

[Jake Cushing 724]

We all remember the 'issues' DR2.0 had on its arrival. Not to want to dwell on them, but, holy jeebers they were pretty bad (rain noodles took the cake maybe) 

But the game was a rock-solid 60fps on all consoles. That felt really good. Could be a stage win in there! 

[richie 516]

12 hours ago, Leo Natan said:

Epic fail by the developers. They switched to UE, which is terrible for racing, killed modding on PC, and couldn’t get it running faster than 40fps, and didn’t even lock it. 🤦‍♂️😂 Complete technical failure. Do you know if it was a porting house or done internally? On PC it has been out for a while. 

Yeah, they had to because their in-house developed engine didn't support dynamic weather, not sure about night racing but I think it wasn't supported either. I've seen a few people say that the UE isn't suited for racing games. I honestly don't know, but it seems triple screen support isn't the best either but Kunos have opted to use it for their new game so they must've felt confident to do so. 

The console version is developed by 505 Games and d3t design together with Kunos probably.