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2 hours ago, KittyFit90 said:

My 2 cents...the BLM movement is great and kudos to Mercedes and Hamilton for supporting it and it is not just a US based issue, here in Australia the last 30+ deaths in police custody have been Aboriginal men! 

But what about the 50.2% of the population that is not proportionally represented in F1 (drivers wise, the teams have diversified with female engineers etc well in the last decade or so but there's still a long way to go), where is the push to make F1 accessible to female drivers? I can remember when I was a keen karter as a girl (and a pretty successful one which the boys I raced really hated!):classic_tongue:, I was sneered at regularly by other drivers, organizers, engineers and so on. Things like this were regularly said, girls can't race, best drop out now because girls can't take the physical strain of more powerful cars, car racing is not a girly thing or my personal fav all female racers are lesbians!:classic_laugh: 

Frankly people get too hung up on race when the biggest discrimination in F1 (and the world as a whole) is based on gender! Ok I'm heading back to the safety of the off-topic forum now haha:classic_biggrin:

It could easily be argued that the biggest discrimination in F1 is class. How many working class racing drivers do you see? F1 was set up by rich people for rich people. It's never changed and probably never will. Lewis Hamilton's dad had to work multiple jobs just to get him to karting, but so many racing drivers have had it easy because of their parents money. I'm not talking about people like Stroll or Latifi, but kids with moderately well off parents who can afford every step in the junior categories. Yes, they need to be fast to get anywhere, but being given a huge leg-up really helps. Who knows, there might be someone who can't afford to go racing out there who is quicker than Hamilton?

Edited by WestHam66
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15 minutes ago, WestHam66 said:

The McLarens are in their original colour. Red and white might be their most iconic livery, but it was only ever for the Marlboro sponsorship. 

Oh, I know, but for people becoming fans in the Marlboro days that was all they knew. So it was their traditional colour instead of the papaya. Mercedes were out of F1 for so long, no one thought they needed to be silver when they came back. Lotus is forever remembered for the JPS livery and not the original British Racing Green.

As much as I enjoyed the Rothmans livery, I preferred Williams in the Cannon/Camel yellow, white and blue which growing up was for me the natural colour scheme. Renault was yellow with black, not black with yellow etc.

Not many of my friends who support Ferrari like it when the team ditched the more scarlet like colour in favour of the bright red with Schumacher that gave the cameras fits in the sunshine.

As fans of a team, we adapt. As fans of a driver- not sure how much we care (although the split BAR livery did rub me the wrong way when Villeneuve drove for them). 

My point is liveries change for various reasons and those changes sometimes are stamped into our consciousness for the reason the change was made. This change by Mercedes will be remembered for longer than the season for the very reason that the traditional livery was changed. In that way, this move goes beyond a single season. And if Hamilton should win the title, the livery, the man, and the cause will be linked for even longer.

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11 minutes ago, WestHam66 said:

It could easily be argued that the biggest discrimination in F1 is class. How many working class racing drivers do you see? F1 was set up by rich people for rich people. It's never changed and probably never will. Lewis Hamilton's dad had to work multiple jobs just to get him to karting, but so many racing drivers have had it easy because of their parents money. I'm not talking about people like Stroll or Latifi, but kids with moderately well off parents who can afford every step in the junior categories. Yes, they need to be fast to get anywhere, but being given a huge leg-up really helps. Who knows, there might be someone who can't afford to go racing out there who is quicker than Hamilton?

Yes that was certainly true in the past, as a kid I was lucky and came from a well off family, because I couldn't attract any sponsorship for my Karting (most male kids could get sponsors no problem...little ones like the local mechanic or tyre place), later on I followed my cousins example and ran my own team...then I crashed through a fence and retired on the spot. LOL But the point I'm making is that girls struggle more then boys to attract interest in them as drivers, people apply stereotypes to racing drivers and those don't include girls/women. You should've seen the rubbish people posted on the aussie V8 Supercars website every time Simona di Silvestro did poorly (who is a lovely person, thanks for the signed poster Simona:classic_love:). Male drivers copped it too but they were always called idiots/morons or the like. Simona constantly got gender based derogatory comments.

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Its nothing more than a reactive thing that so many other companies or brands are doing to be seen to do the right thing.

If your going to send a message then put the message "end racism" in a prime spot on the car. Not place it in the tiniest writing possible on the halo so nobody can see it.

Sure the car is black but for people that don't follow F1 and see pictures of the car online or in papers it just looks like a black car.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, BelgiumDude said:

Yes I'm taking it there. An optional grey livery for Mercedes is the biggest nonsense and yes the reason behind it is because some people hate the message the black livery represents. It's not that difficult to identify racism when you see it. 

It's not nonsense.  If a team runs multiple liveries during the season, and if Codies even updates them through the season, then why shouldn't we have the option to run a race with whatever livery option we want?  It's really that simple.  It's not about the politics, or the stance (which I fully support on Merc's end & F1 as a whole), it's simply about options visually for a VIDEO GAME.

I suggest if you're calling me (or anyone) a racist over only wanting the option to drive multiple "official" liveries, then I suggest you keep quiet because you're making assumptions and accusations based on nothing factual; just your own opinion.  Now to point out the idiots who have blatantly come in here to point out why they think Merc going to the black livery is ill conceived or stupid...  yeah, all day long point them out and call them what you want, because that's obvious coming from a point of view you would class as racism so I'm with you there.   However, you can't come in here and make the assumption that anyone simply asking for visual options is coming from a place of racism. We're here to discuss a VIDEO GAME & that's what I was doing.   If a team runs multiple liveries in the season, or releases multiple liveries for whatever reason why shouldn't we have the ability to run either or? 

As I previously said, I'm not just talking about Merc, but Renault and Williams too. Maybe not Williams because that's a full on sponsor change and likely creates licensing issues.  I've stated my hope that they update the liveries with the LGBTW community rainbow images such as what McLaren have done.  So it's not about racism or social injustice here for me, it's about having more visual options in a game.  I prefer the black Merc look, it makes the green pop more and doesn't look as washed out as the silver does to me.  I prefer the all black Renault look too. I like both originals as well.  I just think the option to use either one in a VIDEO GAME is a good idea; it keeps it fresh.  To me, it's just about having options especially if a team runs or releases multiple "official" liveries.   Heck, if Red Bull comes out and says hey... we're runnign a special livery for 3 races this year just because we want our car to be Yellow.  Guess what, I want that option to drive as an alternate too. 

I'm not sure why that has to get blown up into an issue around racism or social injustice and you've got to paint everyone wanting an option with the broad brush here.  After going back and seeing some of the stupid comments about the livery, yes, I get where you are coming from with some of the stupid comments, but what I have an issue with here is you painting everyone with the same brush on the issue.  Just because I want the option, doesn't mean I want it to try and suppress the official stance behind the reason of the team to change it; it simply means I want more options in the game because I get tired of running the same 10 cars/liveries for 12 months.   Also a HUGE reason why I can't wait for My Team mode...  I can create my own care and (hopefully) be able to change it season to season as I change sponsors etc.   It keeps the game fresh for me.   

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Seems my post saying its ridiculous was deleted, if the mods found it racist perhaps I should include an image of myself next time 😛

 

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20 minutes ago, Rindt70 said:

Seems my post saying its ridiculous was deleted, if the mods found it racist perhaps I should include an image of myself next time 😛

 

I personally didn't find it offensive, however, I can see how potentially it can be interpreted by others. Just trying to keep the conversation on topic and this thread an open and friendly area. You are entitled to your opinion, but you also have to take into account that this a public space that users from all backgrounds are welcome.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, petro1319 said:

It's not nonsense.  If a team runs multiple liveries during the season, and if Codies even updates them through the season, then why shouldn't we have the option to run a race with whatever livery option we want?  It's really that simple.  It's not about the politics, or the stance (which I fully support on Merc's end & F1 as a whole), it's simply about options visually for a VIDEO GAME.

I suggest if you're calling me (or anyone) a racist over only wanting the option to drive multiple "official" liveries, then I suggest you keep quiet because you're making assumptions and accusations based on nothing factual; just your own opinion.  Now to point out the idiots who have blatantly come in here to point out why they think Merc going to the black livery is ill conceived or stupid...  yeah, all day long point them out and call them what you want, because that's obvious coming from a point of view you would class as racism so I'm with you there.   However, you can't come in here and make the assumption that anyone simply asking for visual options is coming from a place of racism. We're here to discuss a VIDEO GAME & that's what I was doing.   If a team runs multiple liveries in the season, or releases multiple liveries for whatever reason why shouldn't we have the ability to run either or? 

As I previously said, I'm not just talking about Merc, but Renault and Williams too. Maybe not Williams because that's a full on sponsor change and likely creates licensing issues.  I've stated my hope that they update the liveries with the LGBTW community rainbow images such as what McLaren have done.  So it's not about racism or social injustice here for me, it's about having more visual options in a game.  I prefer the black Merc look, it makes the green pop more and doesn't look as washed out as the silver does to me.  I prefer the all black Renault look too. I like both originals as well.  I just think the option to use either one in a VIDEO GAME is a good idea; it keeps it fresh.  To me, it's just about having options especially if a team runs or releases multiple "official" liveries.   Heck, if Red Bull comes out and says hey... we're runnign a special livery for 3 races this year just because we want our car to be Yellow.  Guess what, I want that option to drive as an alternate too. 

I'm not sure why that has to get blown up into an issue around racism or social injustice and you've got to paint everyone wanting an option with the broad brush here.  After going back and seeing some of the stupid comments about the livery, yes, I get where you are coming from with some of the stupid comments, but what I have an issue with here is you painting everyone with the same brush on the issue.  Just because I want the option, doesn't mean I want it to try and suppress the official stance behind the reason of the team to change it; it simply means I want more options in the game because I get tired of running the same 10 cars/liveries for 12 months.   Also a HUGE reason why I can't wait for My Team mode...  I can create my own care and (hopefully) be able to change it season to season as I change sponsors etc.   It keeps the game fresh for me.   

It is nonsense. I've been playing Codemasters game since the Wii version and been long enough on this forum to see when a discussion is bended in all ways not to point at the obvious elephant in the room. An all of a sudden shift to abandon realism in favor of not having to see a livery that takes a stance against racism? If a tiny sponsor changes color people want Codemasters to update that little sponsor. Because realism you know. Is something different on TV than in the game? Codemasters will be informed by many to fix it. 

Mercedes starts the season with a controversial livery and suddenly realism isn't good enough anymore. A black Mercedes? Nah make it grey. Ferrari would suit nice with yellow dots all over the car, it's not like the real Ferrari but let us choose the livery. We don't need realism anymore. It's not racism that is the problem it's realism. Let's get rid of realism.

The game is out next week. Don't you think it's unreasonable to demand alternative liveries for all the cars just because Mercedes got a black livery? That's why it's nonsense. You know Codemasters will want to portray the actual season with a black Mercedes. If you would use your brains instead of your emotions you would realize alternative liveries won't make it to this year's edition because you suggested it only yesterday. The game is ready. You want them now to start on alternative liveries instead of squashing bugs? Should they hire extra people to make those alternative liveries just because Mercedes has a black anti-racism livery? Oh yes I forgot, it's because we want less realism in our racing games 🙄

Edited by BelgiumDude
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5 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

It is nonsense. I've been playing Codemasters game since the Wii version and been long enough on this forum to see when a discussion is bended in all ways not to point at the obvious elephant in the room. An all of a sudden shift to abandon realism in favor of not having to see a livery that takes a stance against racism? If a tiny sponsor changes color people want Codemasters to update that little sponsor. Because realism you know. Is something different on TV than in the game? Codemasters will be informed by many to fix it. 

Mercedes starts the season with a controversial livery and suddenly realism isn't good enough anymore. A black Mercedes? Nah make it grey. Ferrari would suit nice with yellow dots all over the car, it's not like the real Ferrari but let us choose the livery. We don't need realism anymore. It's not racism that is the problem it's realism. Let's get rid of realism.

The game is out next week. Don't you think it's unreasonable to demand alternative liveries for all the cars just because Mercedes got a black livery? That's why it's nonsense. You know Codemasters will want to portray the actual season with a black Mercedes. If you would use your brains instead of your emotions you would realize alternative liveries won't make it to this year's edition. The game is ready. You want them now to start on alternative liveries instead of squashing bugs? Should they hire extra people to make those alternative liveries just because Mercedes has a black anti-racism livery? Oh yes I forgot, it's because we want less realism in our racing games 🙄

Nail on the head if merc had just said liverys black and made no mention to blm everyone would just want it changed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheCroc84 said:

Nail on the head if merc had just said liverys black and made no mention to blm everyone would just want it changed.

Personally I'm not a fan of the Matte paint on the cars, in-game they look bad the shader is so flat. The cars look like made from paper. But what can you do? The alternative is also not so great cus the game reflections right now are so low res and blurry. The worst was 2014 you play as the ugliest cars in history and you cant do things to change it. Some of the cars this year with the thin noses look ugly in my opinion. I just hope in my team you will have the freedom to make all kind of geometry and material alterations and not all of the cool options are behind a paywall 😄 

Edited by BiohazardBGR

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10 hours ago, BelgiumDude said:

It is nonsense. I've been playing Codemasters game since the Wii version and been long enough on this forum to see when a discussion is bended in all ways not to point at the obvious elephant in the room. An all of a sudden shift to abandon realism in favor of not having to see a livery that takes a stance against racism? If a tiny sponsor changes color people want Codemasters to update that little sponsor. Because realism you know. Is something different on TV than in the game? Codemasters will be informed by many to fix it. 

Mercedes starts the season with a controversial livery and suddenly realism isn't good enough anymore. A black Mercedes? Nah make it grey. Ferrari would suit nice with yellow dots all over the car, it's not like the real Ferrari but let us choose the livery. We don't need realism anymore. It's not racism that is the problem it's realism. Let's get rid of realism.

The game is out next week. Don't you think it's unreasonable to demand alternative liveries for all the cars just because Mercedes got a black livery? That's why it's nonsense. You know Codemasters will want to portray the actual season with a black Mercedes. If you would use your brains instead of your emotions you would realize alternative liveries won't make it to this year's edition because you suggested it only yesterday. The game is ready. You want them now to start on alternative liveries instead of squashing bugs? Should they hire extra people to make those alternative liveries just because Mercedes has a black anti-racism livery? Oh yes I forgot, it's because we want less realism in our racing games 🙄

You're too blinded by your own nonsense that you're missing the point here.   All I said was I wish we had the option to pick liveries from other official team ones.   You jumped us onto the road of racism and lumping everyone who would like an OPTION in to a bunch of racists.  That's riduclous man.  

You know what, if ferrari decided to run a livery this season with yellow dots all over it, then yes.  I want the option to run it.  You see, because it's not about what you want to make it about.  It's simply about having an option.  If a team shows it in the season, then let me pick it.

I know I never demanded they add an option to run silver instead of black.  I said I'd like an option.

Again, you're missing the actual point here I'm trying to make.  I responded to you for making the assumption that anyone who wants the option is because their a racist.  That's my problem, you pointing the finger and making those accusations based on someone saying it'd be a cool addition to have the option.   I'm not sure why you're missing that point here.

You mean to tell me, that if Red bull said hey, for 3 races this year we're going to run a silver car.  You don't want the option to drive either the blue, or the silver?   Of course you do.  IF you don't, then your rant on realism is... over.   That's what I'm saying.  If a team runs a different livery in testing, than they announce as official, and then runs a "special" scheme either for the remainder of the year or for several races guess what..  I'd like the ability to run either 3 of those that I want.  Because, you know... REALISM.   I lump testing liveries into that too, hence my request for the option to run the Renault all black from testing.   It's not about anything more than an option to some, it's not about racism and that doesn't make me a racist.  It' makes you ignorant, amongst other things.

We'll agree to disagree here and move on...  

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10 hours ago, TheCroc84 said:

Nail on the head if merc had just said liverys black and made no mention to blm everyone would just want it changed.

Wrong.  I'd still like the option since both we're deemed official, and lets face it this wasn't in Mercs plans until major visibility finally got given to a major issue.  I'd like special testing liveries too though.  Even the option to run the Williams/Rokit for this year.

It's not game-breaking for me that it's not.  I'm just saying, it'd be nice to have the option to keep the game fresh.  Only if they're team "official" or run liveries during the year.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, petro1319 said:

You're too blinded by your own nonsense that you're missing the point here.   All I said was I wish we had the option to pick liveries from other official team ones.   You jumped us onto the road of racism and lumping everyone who would like an OPTION in to a bunch of racists.  That's riduclous man.  

You know what, if ferrari decided to run a livery this season with yellow dots all over it, then yes.  I want the option to run it.  You see, because it's not about what you want to make it about.  It's simply about having an option.  If a team shows it in the season, then let me pick it.

I know I never demanded they add an option to run silver instead of black.  I said I'd like an option.

Again, you're missing the actual point here I'm trying to make.  I responded to you for making the assumption that anyone who wants the option is because their a racist.  That's my problem, you pointing the finger and making those accusations based on someone saying it'd be a cool addition to have the option.   I'm not sure why you're missing that point here.

You mean to tell me, that if Red bull said hey, for 3 races this year we're going to run a silver car.  You don't want the option to drive either the blue, or the silver?   Of course you do.  IF you don't, then your rant on realism is... over.   That's what I'm saying.  If a team runs a different livery in testing, than they announce as official, and then runs a "special" scheme either for the remainder of the year or for several races guess what..  I'd like the ability to run either 3 of those that I want.  Because, you know... REALISM.   I lump testing liveries into that too, hence my request for the option to run the Renault all black from testing.   It's not about anything more than an option to some, it's not about racism and that doesn't make me a racist.  It' makes you ignorant, amongst other things.

We'll agree to disagree here and move on...  

Don't care what that guy says.  He looks like a Codemasters lawyer who goes against any kind of new game implementation.  For him, everything is laborious and not worth it, as if he were the head of development.  You're right, the availability of the option is everything, everyone chooses how to play and everyone is satisfied.  But for him, only what matters is what pleases him.

Edited by caiocrq
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12 hours ago, petro1319 said:

You're too blinded by your own nonsense that you're missing the point here.   All I said was I wish we had the option to pick liveries from other official team ones.   You jumped us onto the road of racism and lumping everyone who would like an OPTION in to a bunch of racists.  That's riduclous man.  

You know what, if ferrari decided to run a livery this season with yellow dots all over it, then yes.  I want the option to run it.  You see, because it's not about what you want to make it about.  It's simply about having an option.  If a team shows it in the season, then let me pick it.

I know I never demanded they add an option to run silver instead of black.  I said I'd like an option.

Again, you're missing the actual point here I'm trying to make.  I responded to you for making the assumption that anyone who wants the option is because their a racist.  That's my problem, you pointing the finger and making those accusations based on someone saying it'd be a cool addition to have the option.   I'm not sure why you're missing that point here.

You mean to tell me, that if Red bull said hey, for 3 races this year we're going to run a silver car.  You don't want the option to drive either the blue, or the silver?   Of course you do.  IF you don't, then your rant on realism is... over.   That's what I'm saying.  If a team runs a different livery in testing, than they announce as official, and then runs a "special" scheme either for the remainder of the year or for several races guess what..  I'd like the ability to run either 3 of those that I want.  Because, you know... REALISM.   I lump testing liveries into that too, hence my request for the option to run the Renault all black from testing.   It's not about anything more than an option to some, it's not about racism and that doesn't make me a racist.  It' makes you ignorant, amongst other things.

We'll agree to disagree here and move on...  

Yeah sure and all of this is discussed in the topic where the controversial livery of Mercedes is revealed? We are not in the topic "Add optional liveries to the cars". None of the topics that discuss livery changes have this suggestion. But all of a sudden it's a priority? This even is not the only topic discussing the new mercedes livery together with the suggestion to have additional liveries. 🙄

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BelgiumDude said:

Yeah sure and all of this is discussed in the topic where the controversial livery of Mercedes is revealed? We are not in the topic "Add optional liveries to the cars". None of the topics that discuss livery changes have this suggestion. But all of a sudden it's a priority? This even is not the only topic discussing the new mercedes livery together with the suggestion to have additional liveries. 🙄

You struggle with reading and comprehension don't you?    Sure, an idiot or two made a stupid and ignorant comment that ties to the issue/reasoning for Merc to put out the black livery.  I get that ticks you off; me too! 

The topic worked towards optional liveries because someone suggested having the ability to run both, and I agreed.  Not because of the intent you want to imply by painting everyone with the broad brush here, but because I like options and I get bored of running the same 10 car liveries for a year.   It's about choice.  Nobody said it was a priority.  Stop sticking words in peoples mouths, that's all you've done here.   Assumed everyone is racist for wanting an option, that's just stupidity.   It's a suggestion to have an option, that's all for some.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I'm not sure why that concept is so hard for you to grasp.  Nobody said it had to be done for THIS YEAR, or RIGHT NOW.  Not that I'm aware of anyways.  I'd just like the option.    Keep overlooking the issue here though to push your narative because a few idiots made ignorant posts.   Again, lets just agree to disagree here.  It's just simpler that way, because it's clearly not getting through to you that this isn't about race or a social movement for some, it's simply about having options IF a team has multiple liveries for some of us.

Edited by petro1319
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There seems to be a bit of a heated conversation going on, and I think we may not have the manpower to handle this kind of thread as of now...  @BarryBL may disagree, but I'll close this thread for a moment.

If you want to suggest a feature that allows you to switch between the multiple official liveries, you can do so in another thread. Feature suggestions are definitely not banned! 🙂 

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