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When are the physics and damage model going to be updated?

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elbradipo said:
griev0r said:
I'm all for a more in depth damage model but my real concern lies with the tarmac physics.

Gravel feels pretty damn good already, but tarmac really does need some work.  They don't have to be trying to make the most hardcore simulator in the world to make some adjustments to the physics that a lot of people have been asking for since day 1.  It's harder to drive actually cause of it's all or nothing levels of grip.   It is really hard to successfully powerslide around a hairpin in a very powerful 4WD, and just about impossible with RWD.  Scandanavian flick on tarmac?  Don't even attempt it.  In RWD, if you actually do hit the handbrake to try and drift a corner, you will almost always spin out.  There doesn't seem to be much in between of 100% on rails grip and complete loss of traction.

As with gravel as well, it feels pretty awesome at higher speeds.  Lift off oversteer coming over crests and such you can catch and feels natural, but at lower speeds you can't get the wheels spinning and the car around hairpins is really really hard to control.  I'm not the type that harder is more realistic, but I've watched a lot of WRC, onboards, etc and they don't seem to have near the level of grip in low speed corners we battle with here.
+1 for me.. on tarmac i don't use the handbrake, for me is impossible (spin 100% with rwd, 50% with 4wd). 
And the passage from power grip to loosing grip is too fast (sorry for english)
Everyone entitled to their own opinion but I feel as if most of these opinions are issues with their own ability and some are having difficultly driving and believe its the game's fault. Seeking less grip is actually seeking a more arcade driving experience akin to something like Grid or Burnout where you power slide around every corner.


I'm not an expert in car physics (like many users on this forum seem to be). But if you have ever watched a gymkhana video where Ken drives a rally car specially setup up for drifting and sliding (different from a setup used to compete in a tarmac rally which is optimised for grip). He still has to use the handbrake to get the car into a powerslide and around hairpins. If your not using the handbrake, no wonder some of you are having trouble getting around corners.

Claiming that its impossible to do throttle steering or powerslides is completely incorrect. Getting around hairpins like seen in the above video posted by @Alwert can be done in DiRT Rally. It takes some practice though to get it right. You have to coordinate your steering, speed, handbrake and throttle to do them perfectly. Maybe some of you should spend less time complaining and more time practicing. 



Ok.But, for me, the handbrake handling of the game on tarmac is incorrect. When i drive my real suby 2004 wrx (ok not a race car) and pull  a lot (a lot, not a fraction of a secon) the handbrake,   the car soft slide and gentle oversteer. In the game, the car spin and not slide ( the front wheels have too too much grip). In rbr or assetto corsa or gtr2 the handbrake management is much closer to reality. Look at colin's movie

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsNW8TX2vGs

the actual ffb is better than the first release but not perfect. Sorry for english

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Has a dev ever posted here, with answers info etc.

All i see is biglees announcements.

When do we see some CM communication, or has nothing really changed here.

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Msportdan said:
Has a dev ever posted here, with answers info etc.

All i see is biglees announcements.

When do we see some CM communication, or has nothing really changed here.


There are occasional answers here but not often. Paul Coleman usually answers if you ask nice on Twitter though. I've gotten alot of answers from there :)

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Msportdan said:
Has a dev ever posted here, with answers info etc.

All i see is biglees announcements.

When do we see some CM communication, or has nothing really changed here.

Yeah, I really wish there was some kind of communication on the physics/driving model aspect.  It is early access and no changes have been made to them since the launch as far as we know, and we have given plenty of feedback over the last couple months.

While it's definitely not a bad start or anything, I'm loving the game to death, but there are many widely agreed issues with the driving model.  Why has there been 0 communication and no changes made with the biggest complaints in the driving model (tarmac grip, wheelspin, braking distances etc) for 3 months now?

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griev0r said:
Msportdan said:
Has a dev ever posted here, with answers info etc.

All i see is biglees announcements.

When do we see some CM communication, or has nothing really changed here.

Yeah, I really wish there was some kind of communication on the physics/driving model aspect.  It is early access and no changes have been made to them since the launch as far as we know, and we have given plenty of feedback over the last couple months.

While it's definitely not a bad start or anything, I'm loving the game to death, but there are many widely agreed issues with the driving model.  Why has there been 0 communication and no changes made with the biggest complaints in the driving model (tarmac grip, wheelspin, braking distances etc) for 3 months now?


A tip is to Watch the Dirt Show every time it airs.


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bogani said:

A tip is to Watch the Dirt Show every time it airs.

I have watched all the Dirt Shows (all after they streamed because Im in Australia and they are on at midnight!) and while some good questions are asked or interesting information given, so many of the ones @justbiglee seems to pick are really useless and dont even attempt to answer what most people want to know. Things like, what are the Codemasters teams favourite cars/stages? And heaps of basic questions that can be answered by just looking up the website! I was just rolling my eyes every time he would pull out these questions. I mean whilst it might be cool to know this stuff (about devs preferences etc) and for some who are just new to the game this other basic stuff may be useful, I have to admit I get frustrated watching sometimes, even though I find some of it really interesting.

 Seriously, many of us want other questions to be answered about things like physics, damage model options and if they ever plan on improving replays?? I cant work out if its just heaps of people asking lame questions or if @justbiglee is picking questions that avoid things the devs dont want to talk about right now.

I realise a lot of questions and suggestions get asked here on the forums, too many to be answered properly given the devs are still working and cant be sure of what they can promise.

But I cant understand why some of the most basic questions like, tarmac physics, replay system, damage model, mod posibilities and DLC have not been formally acknowledged or even better directly answered.

I cant see why this is not possible and I honestly thought it would be like this, perhaps Im just naive?

They did a very good job at responding to the ffb issues and they can be very proud of themselves for this, but we need this kind of openess and response to other big issues if the community is really going to help make this title a classic.

I love the game and because of this I genuinely want it to be the best that it can be but the lack of basic comunication from Codemasters is making me think that for the most part they dont need me :/

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Rygar86 said:
bogani said:

A tip is to Watch the Dirt Show every time it airs.

But I cant understand why some of the most basic questions like, tarmac physics, replay system, damage model, mod posibilities and DLC have not been formally acknowledged or even better directly answered.

I cant see why this is not possible and I honestly thought it would be like this, perhaps Im just naive?

I love the game and because of this I genuinely want it to be the best that it can be but the lack of basic comunication from Codemasters is making me think that for the most part they dont need me :/
I'll try answer some of these questions for you, let me just read the forums.

1. Tarmac physics. SkiddyMcCrash said:

@KickUp said during the Pikes Peak show that they are working on the physics and that they don't know when it'll be ready.

2. Replay system. @justbiglee ran a poll asking if the community would rather have a Rally school or a better replay system (they don't have time/recourses for both) and the replay system came out on top. My guese is we will get a better replay system or why ask the question in the first place.

3. Damage model. No idea, can't think that I have read anything official. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong :)

4. Mod support. The devs, once finished with the game would like to add Mod support. However it's not up to them. Even the Dev's have a Boss to answer to.

5. Up until the end of early access we will have no DLC, we will get regular content/bug fixes/improvment updates foc. Beyond that I suspect it will depend on how popular the game is and if the community are willing to support and pay for DLC. It would be silly not to cash in if the community demand more official content.

Hope this helps a little, obviously this is not an official response but mostly my opinions formed from reading forums/twitter and watching the live streams.

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Evilsmurf said:
Rygar86 said:
bogani said:

A tip is to Watch the Dirt Show every time it airs.

But I cant understand why some of the most basic questions like, tarmac physics, replay system, damage model, mod posibilities and DLC have not been formally acknowledged or even better directly answered.

I cant see why this is not possible and I honestly thought it would be like this, perhaps Im just naive?

I love the game and because of this I genuinely want it to be the best that it can be but the lack of basic comunication from Codemasters is making me think that for the most part they dont need me :/
I'll try answer some of these questions for you, let me just read the forums.

1. Tarmac physics. SkiddyMcCrash said:

@KickUp said during the Pikes Peak show that they are working on the physics and that they don't know when it'll be ready.

2. Replay system. @justbiglee ran a poll asking if the community would rather have a Rally school or a better replay system (they don't have time/recourses for both) and the replay system came out on top. My guese is we will get a better replay system or why ask the question in the first place.

3. Damage model. No idea, can't think that I have read anything official. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong :)

4. Mod support. The devs, once finished with the game would like to add Mod support. However it's not up to them. Even the Dev's have a Boss to answer to.

5. Up until the end of early access we will have no DLC, we will get regular content/bug fixes/improvment updates foc. Beyond that I suspect it will depend on how popular the game is and if the community are willing to support and pay for DLC. It would be silly not to cash in if the community demand more official content.

Hope this helps a little, obviously this is not an official response but mostly my opinions formed from reading forums/twitter and watching the live streams.

So replay system came out on top? That's great! I remember it was the other way around, but  my memory is kinda bad.

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Hi all,
I´ve playing DIRT RALLY for a few hours; after reading a lot of users feedback I can conclude and agree with this points:

TARMAC: too much grip. The real tyres are grippy, no doubt about it, but not like that. It´s hard to get some underteering under scuare corners, even when you are at high speed. Theres no sound/FFB effect when it appears (understeering) neither. And most of times when you get under, you are already crashed lol. The sense of "gravity" force, the sense of speed are great.
This "issue" does not allow users to make thight/hairping turns with power over (and the right car setup to do that)

INERTIA: Here we got something that is just wrong. If you release gas pedal, speed decreases drasticaly. A real Engine brake cant manifest that behavior even at short gears (you just blown the engine). This can be noticed even at 6th speed. Theres barely a difference between release gas pedal and braking with some cars.

BRAKING: actual braking on gravel may be compared with braking on tarmac, and braking on tarmac is like got cat nails over carpet.
This game needs longer braking distances!! The car should manifest much more "mass" on braking condition. You can already feel this "mass" transfering weight on turns.

SPEED INDICATOR: This is quite annoying and weird stuff, but the problem is clear: speed is measured through the wheel spin and NOT with car movement in itself. Powerful cars spin its wheels on stage start... it may "say" 60 Km/h when you are driving at only 20.

IN GAME HUD: The split time spotter is right in the middle of the main sight. It disturbs a lot. Luckly it last a few secs. PLEASE MOVE IT!! whereever you want... upper, lower, I dont care, but NOT the centre of the screen :dizzy: 

CAR SETUP: No aero setup? I´m missing something?. Esential setup point for, in example, Pikes Peak cars.


Apart from this, I´m glad to participate and ENJOY such a great, superb game. Keep the good working. The team response is unmatched. Top job.
I cant wait to what is to come.

I hope you can understand this humble english... :P

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OzoreXS said:

SPEED INDICATOR: This is quite annoying and weird stuff, but the problem is clear: speed is measured through the wheel spin and NOT with car movement in itself. Powerful cars spin its wheels on stage start... it may "say" 60 Km/h when you are driving at only 20.

IN GAME HUD: The split time spotter is right in the middle of the main sight. It disturbs a lot. Luckly it last a few secs. PLEASE MOVE IT!! whereever you want... upper, lower, I dont care, but NOT the centre of the screen :dizzy: 

CAR SETUP: No aero setup? I´m missing something?. Esential setup point for, in example, Pikes Peak cars.



Point 1. That's how speed is measured in the real world, the speeds the wheel is moving. 

Point 2. I agree that it should be at the top of the screen, not the centre, but I have it turned off anyway. 

Poibt3. I don't think the full aero dynamic/downforce system is fully in place in the game yet? I'm sure someone could correct me?

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bogani said:
So replay system came out on top? That's great! I remember it was the other way around, but  my memory is kinda bad.

You have me thinking now... I could be wrong!


Can someone confirm?

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OzoreXS said:

SPEED INDICATOR: This is quite annoying and weird stuff, but the problem is clear: speed is measured through the wheel spin and NOT with car movement in itself. Powerful cars spin its wheels on stage start... it may "say" 60 Km/h when you are driving at only 20.

IN GAME HUD: The split time spotter is right in the middle of the main sight. It disturbs a lot. Luckly it last a few secs. PLEASE MOVE IT!! whereever you want... upper, lower, I dont care, but NOT the centre of the screen :dizzy: 

CAR SETUP: No aero setup? I´m missing something?. Esential setup point for, in example, Pikes Peak cars.



Point 1. That's how speed is measured in the real world, the speeds the wheel is moving. 

Point 2. I agree that it should be at the top of the screen, not the centre, but I have it turned off anyway. 

Poibt3. I don't think the full aero dynamic/downforce system is fully in place in the game yet? I'm sure someone could correct me?
Yeah, it has sense; when you block wheels braking it shows 0. So, the speed measurement thing will be like it is right now. It represent a little handicap for me, but I´m ok.... everyone will get the same; and from a point of view... its more intersting.

About deactivating the time split, does the progress bar mantainined? another way to show that information (split)?

I guess they have pending the aero thing; even DIRT 1/2/3 has that setup feature.

Thanks mates for the clarification!
Regards

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I think the FFB is fine, thats my opinion.   I matched it up with my own cars steering feedback as best as I could on tarmac, and I am satisfied.

BUT I do think the damage physics are lacking.  Even in DiRT3 they seemed to look like what you would expect (doors flying open, body panels deforming, etc) it could have been a little over the top at time back then.  Today, though, hitting a tree you often keep your bumper intact!  

Realistically you should be loosing bumpers more often, wheels should come off or tie rods should brake.  The wheel should become a anchor if it is busted, hanging off 

i also agree that it should be an option, something that you work up to.  It would really up the challenge if the fear of totaling the car with online weekly events.  

If if all else I would be happy with the damage visibility matched closer to the 'modeled' damage.

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I really don't care about the visual part of the damage, I never see it (except when the hood crumples into my visual range).

What I want to know is how does damage effect the car and my driving of it. Wheels are done really well, you can really tell when a wheel has gone flat, but what about the other parts of the car. I see the over heat icon but what does that do to the car, I have never had it stop my run. What about the rest of the bits, do they change the way the car handles?

I would like to have more feed back when a pieces of the car brakes, a graphic showing what part of the car is broken would be cool.

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OzoreXS said:

About deactivating the time split, does the progress bar mantainined? another way to show that information (split)?
There's a HUD subsection in the options, there you can turn off those things individually. You can turn off the timers while keeping the progress bar, which is how I like it too. I don't want the timer to distract me, but I like to see if the last section was red or green. Whenever I can spare a split second to move my eyes there, that is.

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gfRally said:
I think the FFB is fine, thats my opinion.   I matched it up with my own cars steering feedback as best as I could on tarmac, and I am satisfied.

BUT I do think the damage physics are lacking.  Even in DiRT3 they seemed to look like what you would expect (doors flying open, body panels deforming, etc) it could have been a little over the top at time back then.  Today, though, hitting a tree you often keep your bumper intact!  

Realistically you should be loosing bumpers more often, wheels should come off or tie rods should brake.  The wheel should become a anchor if it is busted, hanging off 

i also agree that it should be an option, something that you work up to.  It would really up the challenge if the fear of totaling the car with online weekly events.  

If if all else I would be happy with the damage visibility matched closer to the 'modeled' damage.


I don't care that much about the visual damage, but damage itself seems kinda random. Mostly you can hit a tree at 100mph and just get a broken windscreen, but now and then you drive off the side of the road and get a DNF straight away. It's lacking really bad.

I'm not that fond off the current repair system either. Fixing your wheel by 5%. What does that even mean? They should refine the system more. If one of your wheels are damaged you can tell the mechanics to replace it and add the time or you can keep going with a wobbly wheel risking to lose it.

If the radiator is leaking you can risk going on and the car might overheat, they can change it for a new adding service time or they can make a quickfix trying to seal it for half the time cost.

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Evilsmurf said:

2. Replay system. @justbiglee ran a poll asking if the community would rather have a Rally school or a better replay system (they don't have time/recourses for both) and the replay system came out on top. My guese is we will get a better replay system or why ask the question in the first place.
Do you happen to know where it is? I've been watching the forums here and at Steam since early May and can't recall such a poll. The only thing someone's ever linked to regarding a poll is a post by biglee in the gossip thread. And from what I remember he was never explicitly talking about a poll in that post.

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function9 said:
Evilsmurf said:

2. Replay system. @justbiglee ran a poll asking if the community would rather have a Rally school or a better replay system (they don't have time/recourses for both) and the replay system came out on top. My guese is we will get a better replay system or why ask the question in the first place.
Do you happen to know where it is? I've been watching the forums here and at Steam since early May and can't recall such a poll. The only thing someone's ever linked to regarding a poll is a post by biglee in the gossip thread. And from what I remember he was never explicitly talking about a poll in that post.

Have been looking but can't find it now. :(

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Evilsmurf said:
function9 said:
Evilsmurf said:

2. Replay system. @justbiglee ran a poll asking if the community would rather have a Rally school or a better replay system (they don't have time/recourses for both) and the replay system came out on top. My guese is we will get a better replay system or why ask the question in the first place.
Do you happen to know where it is? I've been watching the forums here and at Steam since early May and can't recall such a poll. The only thing someone's ever linked to regarding a poll is a post by biglee in the gossip thread. And from what I remember he was never explicitly talking about a poll in that post.

Have been looking but can't find it now. :(
Wasn't it the Gossip Thread that was temporarily turned into the poll?
I dug up through my old links to it and this is what I came to
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/203/dirty-gossip-thread/p122

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When talking about the replays, Germany seems to have much more cameras along the stages than the other locations, or am I mistaken?

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People seem to be  forgetting/not realising that good games take time to develop. We also don't know just how many people are working on this game in the dev team and how much time they are putting into this project.

I personally don't think 3 months is that long considering what has already been done/achieved with this game.
I'd much prefer the game to be in early access for as long as it needs to be the game we all want rather than it be rushed out.

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Neogeta said:
People seem to be  forgetting/not realising that good games take time to develop. We also don't know just how many people are working on this game in the dev team and how much time they are putting into this project.

I personally don't think 3 months is that long considering what has already been done/achieved with this game.
I'd much prefer the game to be in early access for as long as it needs to be the game we all want rather than it be rushed out.
Imperative. just look to "Project CARS" mess.

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