Performance Patch coming soon?

[BarryBL 4,138]

8 minutes ago, AllenB2609 said:

how can you judge this year's engine power by last year's performance? It's a brand new season with new engines!! Pre Season testing and first race weekend at Austria clearly showed that all Ferrari teams were struggling with power this year and lacking speed. Ferrari is nowhere near last year.

Exactly @AllenB2609, we couldn't. The issue is, when the game got into that phase, we had limited pre-season data to use rather than the scheduled 8 race weekends (so practice, quali and full races) we would've had.

Take Austria for the easiest example. All numbers are very rough. 71 laps in race, A race programme for each driver - Assume another 71 laps in Practice, Other practice programs - 50 laps, 5 laps in Quali, Per Driver = 197 laps. Round that to 200. Per driver. 4000 laps per race weekend. 

So 3000-4000 laps per weekend x 8 races we would've had data for - Between 24,000 and 32,000 laps of data we didn't have this year to judge performance off before release.

So we had to base it on the next best logical thing. Looks like it wasn't totally accurate, but to be expected. It is a very exceptional circumstance to have the game release the same time the season starts, because season starting is a great unknown to everyone. Remember, we have builds the game far before the planned Austria GP.

[Worntoathread 865]

12 minutes ago, AllenB2609 said:

how can you judge this year's engine power by last year's performance? It's a brand new season with new engines!! Pre Season testing and first race weekend at Austria clearly showed that all Ferrari teams were struggling with power this year and lacking speed. Ferrari is nowhere near last year.

The first race was only two days ago and during winter testing there's no way to know how much the teams even turned up the engines. It makes sense for them to base it on the end of last season and update the 2020 performance in a while after some more races, when we have a better picture of the actual balance.

Edited July 7 by Worntoathread

[TomAAA 446]

Yeah people need to calm down, the game just released. Not only that the way a season goes the grid order could change in the next 3 weeks and you'll have all the same people coming here and complaining again

Maybe they should have add a tab in the settings menu where you could manually change the rating of each team etc, save Codemasters spending all their time on it as people always find a way to argue over team performance 

Edited July 7 by TomAAA

[AllenB2609 345]

18 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

Yeah people need to calm down, the game just released. Not only that the way a season goes the grid order could change in the next 3 weeks and you'll have all the same people coming here and complaining again

Maybe they should have add a tab in the settings menu where you could manually change the rating of each team etc, save Codemasters spending all their time on it as people always find a way to argue over team performance 

well and exactly here lies the main problem.

Codemasters doesn't give us options so everyone can play the game like he prefers. No car or driver rating editing, no editing weather in career mode, no optional HUD for replays, no optional extendible positions HUD, no option to only display 3 letters in drivers HUD and so on.

Edited July 7 by AllenB2609

[KiLLu12258 187]

38 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Exactly @AllenB2609, we couldn't. The issue is, when the game got into that phase, we had limited pre-season data to use rather than the scheduled 8 race weekends (so practice, quali and full races) we would've had.

Take Austria for the easiest example. All numbers are very rough. 71 laps in race, A race programme for each driver - Assume another 71 laps in Practice, Other practice programs - 50 laps, 5 laps in Quali, Per Driver = 197 laps. Round that to 200. Per driver. 4000 laps per race weekend. 

So 3000-4000 laps per weekend x 8 races we would've had data for - Between 24,000 and 32,000 laps of data we didn't have this year to judge performance off before release.

So we had to base it on the next best logical thing. Looks like it wasn't totally accurate, but to be expected. It is a very exceptional circumstance to have the game release the same time the season starts, because season starting is a great unknown to everyone. Remember, we have builds the game far before the planned Austria GP.

yeah i mean thats a "excuse" i can follow.

 

but for what reason did mercedes had the best engine ingame after all performance updates last year? And Ferrari the most stable car? You should adress those things.

 

Also i dont get whats so hard to change the performance Numbers for the engine. Cant be that much of work.

 

At the end it was CM's decision to release the game earlier, which brought us a really bad f1 2019, so when you decide this you should also take to account that you have to adjust performance levels as fast as possible. Excuses to take half of a year for this (or even never get it nearly right) is bad excuse in that case.

Even unofficial "fan" updates got the performance levels closer to rl in 2019.

Edited July 7 by KiLLu12258

[CarloLewis 418]

9 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

yeah i mean thats a "excuse" i can follow.

 

but for what reason did mercedes had the best engine ingame after all performance updates last year? And Ferrari the most stable car? You should adress those things.

 

Also i dont get whats so hard to change the performance Numbers for the engine. Cant be that much of work.

 

At the end it was CM's decision to release the game earlier, which brought us a really bad f1 2019, so when you decide this you should also take to account that you have to adjust performance levels as fast as possible. Excuses to take half of a year for this (or even never get it nearly right) is bad excuse in that case.

But by the same token, you're asking performance to be based on an extremely small sample size. A single race on a fast flowing circuit. How do we know how the performance should look like at other tracks? Should CM tank the durability of all the teams that didn't finish the race.

 

Edited July 7 by CarloLewis

[Falstojudilofa 113]

21 minutes ago, AllenB2609 said:

well and exactly here lies the main problem.

Codemasters doesn't give us options so everyone can play the game like he prefers. No car or driver rating editing, no editing weather in career mode, no optional HUD for replays, no optional extendible positions HUD, no option to only display 3 letters in drivers HUD and so on.

Because not everything can be changed due to licensing issues. I don't think Ferrari would like it if we are able to change their performance to 0. Just like we can't use the name of an engine supplier in my team. It's not that Codemasters doesn't want us to, they are just not aallowed to.

5 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

Also i dont get whats so hard to change the performance Numbers for the engine. Cant be that much of work.

Maybe you do not really understand how game developments work. Maybe they need permission from the teams or FOM before they can change the performance of the cars. They sure need some time to gather more data to change it. You can't just expect them to change the performance every week. Besides that, changing the performance is probably more than just changing some numbers. They would have to change R&D possibilities, the price of the engine in My Team mode and who knows what more.

[KiLLu12258 187]

3 minutes ago, CarloLewis said:

But by the same token, you're asking performance to be based on an extremely small sample size. A single race on a fast flowing circuit. How do we know how the performance should look like at other tracks? Should CM tank the durability of all the teams that didn't finish the race.

 

I do not. I just say that last year they never got it right after the whole year.

 

And come on, that ferrari will not have the best engine this year is already obvious for everyone. This will not change in the next months.

Edited July 7 by KiLLu12258

[BarryBL 4,138]

2 minutes ago, Falstojudilofa said:

Because not everything can be changed due to licensing issues. I don't think Ferrari would like it if we are able to change their performance to 0. Just like we can't use the name of an engine supplier in my team. It's not that Codemasters doesn't want us to, they are just not aallowed to. 

Maybe you do not really understand how game developments work. Maybe they need permission from the teams or FOM before they can change the performance of the cars. They sure need some time to gather more data to change it. You can't just expect them to change the performance every week. Besides that, changing the performance is probably more than just changing some numbers. They would have to change R&D possibilities, the price of the engine in My Team mode and who knows what more. 

I've rarely agreed with a post more. Took the letters off my keyboard there @Falstojudilofa. F1 is a sport with a huge amount of stakeholders that may or may not need to be consulted for updates on reflections of that sport. 

 

[TJH 17]

I don't know what your problem is. I just finished my 1st race with the 1.03 patch in MyTeam and have to say that Codemasters did a good job despite the adverse circumstances. Bottas wins the race just ahead of Hamilton. 20 seconds later the first Ferrari comes in P3, then the Red Bull and then another Ferrari. Behind the Topteams was a tough fight between Renault, McLaren and Racing Point.

If you look at the statistics of the Ferrari, they are at a disadvantage everywhere, only the engine is overpowered, which can be fixed relatively quickly, if that is possible at all.

Edited July 7 by TJH

[KiLLu12258 187]

21 minutes ago, TJH said:

I don't know what your problem is. I just finished my 1st race with the 1.03 patch in MyTeam and have to say that Codemasters did a good job despite the adverse circumstances. Bottas wins the race just ahead of Hamilton. 20 seconds later the first Ferrari comes in P3, then the Red Bull and then another Ferrari. Behind the Topteams was a tough fight between Renault, McLaren and Racing Point.

If you look at the statistics of the Ferrari, they are at a disadvantage everywhere, only the engine is overpowered, which can be fixed relatively quickly, if that is possible at all.

yeh thats all what we hope for.

[FracturedToad 11]

2 hours ago, BarryBL said:

In terms of engine this is, because Mercedes are number 1 in terms of performance.

It would be based on top speeds from last year, where Ferrari were the quickest engine by quite a distance towards the end of the season. So, from our only reliable data set (last years races), Ferrari's were quickest in engine power alone. Winning a race involves much, much more than simply engine power. 

Which answers your Renault vs Honda question too. Renault's best chassis is either McLaren or Renault, compared to Red Bull's (which is historically the top 1/top 2 of the grid)

Okay, your right, disregard the winnings.

You were right that Ferrari was the fastest engine ( this topic is only about performance right?), but after a directive from the FIA before the beginning of the GP in USA they lost a lot of their power (speed). not reliability, but power. In the winter tests they did not good, bad if I may say. so if you take those two in account, the engine of Ferrari isn't the best, but Mercedes.

If you look at the DNF's from Honda and Renault, Renault had more problems then Honda, so I think, my opinion and I'm not trying to force my opinion, that the ranking should be:

1. Mercedes

2. Ferrari

3. Honda

4. Renault

But with the last race in mind it should be:

POWER (SPEED):             Reliability:

1. Mercedes                    Mercedes

2. Honda                        Ferrari

3. Ferrari                        Honda

4. Renault                      Renault

 

Look if the numbers never change, I will still keep playing the game. It's a great game!

Edited July 7 by FracturedToad

[Turtlemoose 73]

Codemasters; to keep the majority of people happy and to mimimise your own workload - take some power off the Ferrari engine. That should be a decent enough of a fix for the time being.

[Punition 36]

Redbull was already ahead of ferrari last year. I expected Redbull to be ahead at the release. Give us a option to change Team stats instead we have to wait 1 month every time..

Edited July 8 by Punition

[Maddison60 2]

On 7/7/2020 at 10:22 PM, FracturedToad said:

Okay, your right, disregard the winnings.

You were right that Ferrari was the fastest engine ( this topic is only about performance right?), but after a directive from the FIA before the beginning of the GP in USA they lost a lot of their power (speed). not reliability, but power. In the winter tests they did not good, bad if I may say. so if you take those two in account, the engine of Ferrari isn't the best, but Mercedes.

If you look at the DNF's from Honda and Renault, Renault had more problems then Honda, so I think, my opinion and I'm not trying to force my opinion, that the ranking should be:

1. Mercedes

2. Ferrari

3. Honda

4. Renault

But with the last race in mind it should be:

POWER (SPEED):             Reliability:

1. Mercedes                    Mercedes

2. Honda                        Ferrari

3. Ferrari                        Honda

4. Renault                      Renault

 

Look if the numbers never change, I will still keep playing the game. It's a great game!

See I agree with this (but I'd send Ferrari to the bottom).

Before I say anything, this is of interest. (I'm aware drag/downforce levels can cloud this but its interesting regardless as the higher downforce cars seem to be the ones with the higher speeds, so it's less convoluted)
PU Manufacturer, Q3 Top Speeds - Austria 2020
Merc - 325kph (Bottas)
Honda - 324kph (Albon)
Renault - 322kph (Ricciardo)
Ferrari - 313kph (Leclerc) - keep in mind Ferrari hit 330kph here in 2019... this is a woeful drop of near 20kph!

And I respect the amount of work that has gone into this game, it's unreal, but the assumed performance order still looks sort of basically calculated. I understand exact team positions is hard and a complex scenario to get right (legally as well), especially with this season only just starting last week. But I think on a less complex note, the engine performance order.. I'm not a huge fan of it currently. Looks a little rushed..

We've got a staff member (thank you by the way to Barry for giving us the time of day to discuss, It's always greatly appreciated! Understand your time is valuable) saying that Honda, for example, being placed last is because their best chassis is a Red Bull (historically a top 3 car), as opposed to Renault which only have mid field representatives (Renault, McLaren). So if this logic is used, is Toro Rosso having their single best season to date last year (with a Honda), being only 6 points away from the works Renault team and arguably could of dethroned them if the final race didn't have crash incidents, taken into account? There were tracks towards the end where you have Mercedes themselves admitting Honda have more performance than them. Is that taken into account? Pre-Season testing, they looked at worst second best power wise and first race, same deal through all sessions.

Reliability wise.. For being the only PU manufacturer to not have a single on track failure the entire season across 4 cars (granted a couple extra changes were made, although these were due to crashes, not fails) in 2019, I think they've been hard done by having the slowest, most unreliable engine on the field for the game.

Comparatively, we had Renault across both teams having several, broad issues, ICE fails, turbo failures, MGU-K and H issues. It was broad spectrum. Ferrari had K issues across teams and Merc had plenty of issues across all teams.

Call me a stickler for the details, but just seems wrong and almost a disservice to a manufacturer. I know Lee is a big Renault fan but come on chaps haha...

Edited July 9 by Maddison60
info correction

[sergey_blackbird 143]

Well written! On point!

[sergey_blackbird 143]

 

[Simonodef 7]

Isn't it better with Ferrari's performance right now ? I just saw race in Austria from Beatdown Racing on Youtube (in GP mode as Alex Albon) and there Leclerc finished P5 and Vettel P10. 

Edited July 9 by Simonodef

[Turtlemoose 73]

3 hours ago, Simonodef said:

Isn't it better with Ferrari's performance right now ? I just saw race in Austria from Beatdown Racing on Youtube (in GP mode as Alex Albon) and there Leclerc finished P5 and Vettel P10. 

3 races in to "My Team" and Ferrari have 1 win, 2 2nd places and a 4th.

[Furbii 2]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:03 AM, Punition said:

ferrari should be 100% below redbull maybe tie with mclaren

You can't take conclusions after just one race, and the next race is on the same circuit lol. It will need a few races to make the performance chart.

[Punition 36]

4 hours ago, Furbii said:

You can't take conclusions after just one race, and the next race is on the same circuit lol. It will need a few races to make the performance chart.

Yea Max finished third on championship in 2019 in front both ferrari..

[magpieracer48 187]

I mean, in the context of MyTeam it doesn't really matter as technically none of it ever happened.

[WolfiderChiller 0]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:03 AM, Punition said:

ferrari should be 100% below redbull maybe tie with mclaren

You can't take conclusions after just one race, and the next race is on the same circuit lol. It will need a few races to make the performance chart.

 

Spielberg is very good enough to see which engine is good.

 

[Peachrocks 28]

The thing is almost every year, Ferrari are considered 'ahead' of Mercedes at the start of the season, but Mercedes are notorious for sand bagging. There's no way Ferrrari should have ever been considered number one at any point during this year. I know it's corrected now, but doing a few races with Ferrari dominance similar to 2000-2004 was eye roll inducing. It was the same the last two years too IRC at first anyway. 

Also the Ferrari engine is also the best (and most expensive) in my team. Could it be there's just a teeny tiny bit of bias going on? Or wishful thinking of Mercedes dominance ending? I think engines are slightly harder to compare, for example I think Renault's engine is underrated by many, unreliable perhaps but McLaren did beat Renault last year so the engine is not that car's weakest point even if it doesn't look good in some stats, but that's neither here or there for this year. At the very least Ferrari shouldn't be number 1 for engine. 

In terms of teams overall. I agree it's too early to call, but I think it was a pretty safe bet that Mercedes were team number 1 and short of a calamity they will be next year too. 

Where they line up from Red Bull, Ferrari and onwards is harder to tell. Ferrari especially, I think Leclerc drove the wheels off that thing and it's nowhere near as good as he made it look but I guess we'll see. Bottom does seem like, Alfa Romeo and Williams. 

The other can of worms I'd like to mention is whether driver ratings matter. No, this isn't someone else having an opinion on something that can never be agreed upon, it's something else entirely. Do they even matter? For example I've done 11 races thus far (mostly full distance, skipped/shortened a few cough Monaco and I have no life) and Ocon is significantly ahead of Riccardo in score and usually outperforms him on track despite Riccardo's ratings being notably higher. I made a similar post in this about the 2nd driver rating, so I just wondered if it's possible to build drivers up to being 'champions' or does their AI decide whether they suck or are good. 

[Pilske 6]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:11 AM, sergey_blackbird said:

 

you mean lap comparison with cheating and without cheating