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Performance Patch coming soon?

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I think it's important to note that Ferrari are currently trying to avoid talking about how down on power their engine is. If, as has been suggested, the performance of the cars might need to be agreed before Codemasters can change it then it may not be so simple to lower the performance of the Ferrari engine. I do hope we can get it sorted soon and it would be nice to have a little more communication on what's happening with updates but I think it's important to understand how difficult it can be for Codemasters to work around their licensing agreements. In the long run it would be great if F1 could give them a lot more freedom in the license but that is difficult with the way F1 is structured.

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So we could argue about whether it was the right decision to go for the chosen performance ranking of the teams. My question is, will there even be an update, which corrects the performance ranking? At least i would like to see Ferrari Engines beeing slower than they are right now.

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On 7/9/2020 at 10:11 AM, sergey_blackbird said:

 

Now that's an interesting video! Earlier I did some calculations based on the three speed traps at the Red Bull Ring and concluded that neglecting differences in drag profile, the Ferrari engine has lost 15% horsepower in quali mode. With data from this video I'll be able to produce a rough estimate of the drag factor as well.

I watched it on 0.25 speed several times and many parts frame-by-frame. An interesting highlight is at the very beginning of the video. In 2020, Leclerc had notably better apex speed through the last turn, but the difference evaporates in a flash. Comparing the two videos, as both have exited the last turn for the start of the lap and have straightened the cars, here's what the screen tells me:

Leclerc 2019:

  • 225 km/h
  • 10918 RPM
  • 5th gear

Leclerc 2020:

  • 232 km/h
  • 10840 km/h
  • 6th gear

So, they are within 7 km/h at almost identical RPM but the 2020 engine is a full gear ahead!

Leclerc 2019:

  • 293 km/h
  • 10741 RPM
  • 7th gear

Leclerc 2020:

  • 284 km/h
  • 11495 RPM
  • 7th gear

This data set is from the first line on the start-finish straight (not the DRS line) at about 5 seconds into the video. In about 3 seconds of acceleration, the 2019 car gained 16 km/h on the 2020 car! This is especially noteworthy considering the speeds: at 225-293 km/h range there is considerably less drag than at top speeds, so power unit performance has an extra emphasis. The 2019 car has gained 23.2% speed compared to the last data set. The 2020 car has gained 18.3% speed compared to the last data set. Overall, the 2019 car was accelerating 21.12% faster than the 2020 model through this acceleration zone.

Leclerc 2019:

  • 313 km/h
  • 11282 RPM
  • 8th gear

Leclerc 2020:

  • 301 km/h
  • 10801 RPM
  • 8th gear

The final data set is from the start-finish line. The 2020 car has gained 5.65% speed compared to the last data set. The 2019 car has gained 6.39% speed compared to the last data set. At these speeds the 2019 car was accelerating 11.58% faster than the 2020 car.

In conclusion, the 2020 car has a bit more downforce and drag, but a crushing majority of Ferrari's performance drop has come from the engine. I know the performances of the cars can not be changed based on one track, although engines are a bit different. The Red Bull Ring is a so called power track and there were no temperature issues to manage either. That being said I don't expect changes any time soon, but when they do come, I hope Codies doesn't regurgitate the lies of Binotto and blame the car instead of the engine.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Thaarek said:

So we could argue about whether it was the right decision to go for the chosen performance ranking of the teams. My question is, will there even be an update, which corrects the performance ranking? At least i would like to see Ferrari Engines beeing slower than they are right now.

There will be at some point yes. CM usually make a couple of adjustments over the course of a season.

Edited by CarloLewis
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1 hour ago, janbonator said:

In conclusion, the 2020 car has a bit more downforce and drag, but a crushing majority of Ferrari's performance drop has come from the engine. I know the performances of the cars can not be changed based on one track, although engines are a bit different. The Red Bull Ring is a so called power track and there were no temperature issues to manage either. That being said I don't expect changes any time soon, but when they do come, I hope Codies doesn't regurgitate the lies of Binotto and blame the car instead of the engine.

The most important thing CM should never forgot is that Ferrari engine is going to be this powerless for 2020/2021 season. Ferrari is in a vicious circle. Should we have a dry race at Hungary this week, I wonder if they manage to finish the race not being lapped by Mercedes.

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Don't think any charts or stats are needed to see that Ferrari are clearly slower than Red Bull and at best on par with Racing Point, McLaren and Renault.

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24 minutes ago, Turtlemoose said:

Don't think any charts or stats are needed to see that Ferrari are clearly slower than Red Bull and at best on par with Racing Point, McLaren and Renault.

And this wont change anymore in the next season. So they should nerve Ferrari ASAP.

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Yep, some teams did well in today's quali, Ferrari were last on straights but on par with fastest in high speed corners. So I'd rather wait until Silverstone to make a better shot, performance-wise.  🛠️

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26 minutes ago, sergey_blackbird said:

Yep, some teams did well in today's quali, Ferrari were last on straights but on par with fastest in high speed corners. So I'd rather wait until Silverstone to make a better shot, performance-wise.  🛠️

Yes indeed. Silverstone is an excellent benchmark. In Hungary the teams slap on all the aero they can as drag is not a major issue on the track. Silverstone requires not just downforce, but excellent aerodynamic efficiency - the ratio of downforce and drag. Therefore, if Ferrari is more competitive in Silverstone than Austria, it would imply their engine is even worse than thought, assuming they don't upgrade their cars before the British GP.

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Alfa Romeo have really gone backwards this year, I don't think that's 100% to do with the engine either.

Was difficult to monitor Perez's race pace as he was fighting with other cars most of the race but seems to me that Stroll was comfortably best of the rest in terms of pace after the Mercs and Red Bulls.

What happened to McLaren this weekend?

Ricciardo is getting the most he can out of that Renault 

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Silverstone along with Barcelona tend to be decent circuits to judge performance on of each team. If Ferrari don't take a step forward here then we know it's not just down to the engine, as aero and engine performance are both of equal importance I'd say at these circuits.

Let's hope Red Bull can show more pace to make this season competitive!

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I truly hope CM won't tighten teams making artificially more competitive racing. If you want a competitive wheel-to-wheel racing every corner there is an equal physics to choose from. :classic_smile:

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14 hours ago, Turtlemoose said:

Silverstone along with Barcelona tend to be decent circuits to judge performance on of each team. If Ferrari don't take a step forward here then we know it's not just down to the engine, as aero and engine performance are both of equal importance I'd say at these circuits.

Let's hope Red Bull can show more pace to make this season competitive!

I bet Ferrari finish in between of half a minute to a minute behind the almighty Mercedes.  

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58 minutes ago, sergey_blackbird said:

I truly hope CM won't tighten teams making artificially more competitive racing. If you want a competitive wheel-to-wheel racing every corner there is an equal physics to choose from. :classic_smile:

I'm not sure where the first suggestion came from but note the second part isn't true for the offline game modes which many (I suspect the majority) mainly play.

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46 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

I'm not sure where the first suggestion came from but note the second part isn't true for the offline game modes which many (I suspect the majority) mainly play.

Go online, it's much much better there. Why should we suffer from unrealistic teams performance in multiplayer, if offline players can always boost up their cars to fight for a win at any team they want? Should we call it F1 2020 Official Game or F1 2020 Based on something remotely reminiscent of how the way things are in real F1.

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3 hours ago, sergey_blackbird said:

I bet Ferrari finish in between of half a minute to a minute behind the almighty Mercedes.  

That would require Merc to run in low power mode. If they push just a bit not even RP will be in the same lap. But they will not do that as every time in last 7 years, after dominant win they turned down and there was a close race. Then if them and F1 are satisfied with viewing numbers, they put them back on full power and destroy everything again.

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I think what this thread is essentially saying to me is that maybe it's time Codies implemented a system of user controlled sliders in game that we can manually adjust ourselves so we can adjust rankings on an individual basis. Of course, the game can be defaulted to what Codies set and the teams sign off on (although I'm sure they don't have to sign off on performance ratings) and could receive 1-2 updates to correct the default settings where they see fit.

 

What I would imagine is a slider per department (as per R&D screen - chassis, engine, aero, durability) per team that we could adjust and also a slider for each of the different engines base performance like in MyTeam (this I assume differs to that of the engine R&D rankings?). That way when the game launches Codies can set their default to what they believe the pecking order is and if we believe otherwise because we are waiting on Codies to update the game or wait for more races, we can adjust our game accordingly there and then and then there is no more whingeing and complaining to Codies about performance updates. I know it's probably not as easy as that to incorporate but I'm sure they are capable of doing such a thing. I mean sliders and being able to adjust individual ratings are a thing in other games (Fifa, Madden, etc) so I don't see why it can't be a thing here - perhaps even allow us to adjust the driver ratings too 😉

 

I do not believe that not being able to do so is anything to do with licenses before anyone suggests as otherwise the engines would not change ratings from season to season, the teams order would not change season to season in game, so it is something that I believe can be looked at if Codies choose to do so. They do have an obligation to have the teams as accurate as possible of course (livery and performance) as to the season the game relates to but I do not believe that teams have to sign off for performance ratings as I'm sure you'd likely have arguments amongst them as to who has the best chassis, who has the best engine etc, like I'm sure EA do not need to get sign off for player and team ratings as it's all considered subjective - they always have some players reacting funny to their stats haha.

 

Make it happen Codies 🙂

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48 minutes ago, XanderSJX said:

That would require Merc to run in low power mode. If they push just a bit not even RP will be in the same lap. But they will not do that as every time in last 7 years, after dominant win they turned down and there was a close race. Then if them and F1 are satisfied with viewing numbers, they put them back on full power and destroy everything again.

If only Ferrari had had last year's engine :classic_love:

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4 hours ago, sergey_blackbird said:

I bet Ferrari finish in between of half a minute to a minute behind the almighty Mercedes.  

Your optimism is truly admirable.

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"This year we are not competitive thanks to project errors. We have had a number of structural weaknesses that have existed for some time in aerodynamics and in the dynamics of the vehicle. We have also lost out in engine power.

"The reality is that our car is not competitive. You saw it on the track and you will see it again. Today we are laying the foundations for being competitive and returning to winning when the rules change in 2022. I am convinced of this."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150871/ferrari-chairman-elkann-doesnt-expect-wins-until-2022

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