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David Greco's Handling, Driving and Setup Q&A

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List of all the Answers

General
What have changed, improved, the such?
Track surfaces, evolution of grip over the weekend and rain
Testing by real drivers in the future, and assist balance
What kind of setups does the AI use?
Grip scaling

Driving
Starts in F2

Driving in dirty air
How does brakes fading affect the driving and how to manage it?

Setup
F1 2019 setup to 2020, what to look at?
More downforce in the front or in the rear?

Dry tire temperature range & What do tire pressures affect?
What do tire pressures affect?
Do hotter temperatures affect the oversteer of the car?

Modifying default setups to be less understeery
Time Trial setup to race setup (Multiple answers in a row)

Handling
Difference between Mercedes and the Multiplayer car
F2 and engine braking
Is the FFB same as the beta, and info about an upcoming fix
Does the game implement a "Coca Cola bottle effect"?
Does the game implement the possibility of brakes overheating and tire temperatures dropping under SC/VSC?
Do the dry tires have a blanket operating range?
Is the altitude simulated in-game?
Will the game implement the grip differences of a wet rubbered in track?

Does the AI have dynamic tire temperatures?
Does the AI performance scale depending on the weather conditions?

Wheel / Controller Setups
Thrustmaster Control Panel Settings & T300
T300 In-game FFB settings
Greco's in-game wheel settings

Settings to get a linear curve in F1 games

Multiple Questions from Multiple Categories
Racing Line, What gears is overtake most effective and Lean fuel mix and engine wear

Message added by UP100

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47 minutes ago, sergey_blackbird said:

@David Greco CM

David, you mentioned brakes are fading, but when exactly do brakes fading and how it can be monitored or managed?

just the stopping power decreases a little, on hard brakes. it starts to fade a little from 1000 degrees. 

you can't manage it too much. I guess you could by braking less hard, but there isn't much you should do atm. 

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4 minutes ago, marioho said:

Change tyre pressure at the expense of less responsiveness. Unlock the differentials at the expense of a worse acceleration out of corners and potentially oversteer. Lower the aero angle at the expense of lower downforce and thus lower grip on corners.

So trade offs: responsiveness (corner entry mostly), corner exit (and oversteer), and tunability.

Conversely you also gain, respectively, better grip on corners, better tunability, and less drag 

Edit: I'm forgetting suspension and suspension geometry, sorry.

 

 

Much obliged. I thought as much mostly. Lowering the angles surprises me though. If anything I thought higher angles would be less wear since the car would turn more easily and thus put less pressure on the tyres. Shows what little I know :D. 

The only other detail i'll ask about for now is wheel spin on corner exit. I'm slowly turning off assists since i discovered mid last year that it's much faster without full traction control (yeah I don't do much online research) especially in the wet and on race starts. The problem is I'm having difficulty 'tempering' the accelerator, sometimes feels like my throttle has two settings, off and max :D. Anything I can do with setups alone? I mean you mentioned corner exit speed being slower and I figured the differential being unlocked 'could' be part of that because wheel spinning also causes wear.

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Posted (edited)

@Peachrocks with lower aero you naturally take corners slower. That and the less squishing of the car against the tarmac are what lessen the tyre wear in this case.

Wheel spinning is tricky. Are you also oversteering? If that is the case, the inside tyre is rotating in a rate higher than the grip it has on the tarmac allows for, hence losing traction. It is spinning at this rate because it is too much binded by the rotation of the opposite wheel on that axle: the outside tyre needs to travel more on a corner because the bigger radius give them more distance to cover. So to keep the inside wheel from slipping here you should unlock the appropriate differential, on or off throttle, depending on the moment you're getting the slip.

Now if your wheels are spinning in place without rotating the car on corner exit, the best you could do is to ease on the throttle or to short shift a gear or two. Again what causes the wheels to spin in place is the their rotating more than the grip available allows for, losing traction. So you lessen the power being driven to stay always on the edge of the grip by easing on the throttle or you shift to a upper gear that has less torque.

Edited by marioho
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@mariohoHmm.  I'll give that some thought. Not really oversteering, I'm more or less able to keep the car on the track though I'm sure the set up is not optimized for speed. The spinning usually happens on acceleration so, on throttle. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

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8 minutes ago, Peachrocks said:

@mariohoHmm.  I'll give that some thought. Not really oversteering, I'm more or less able to keep the car on the track though I'm sure the set up is not optimized for speed. The spinning usually happens on acceleration so, on throttle. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

If you're experiencing wheelspin without actually oversteering I'd focus on easing off the throttle a bit. Just a fraction of a second makes a huge difference when the car is still settling straight. That and short shifting.

One thing I don't regret doing is spending a couple minutes on the calibration tab of the controller settings to get a feel to what pressure would equal 20/50/80 percent throttle/brake pressure. The final stages of a braking strip, when you're transitioning from full-on braking to no brake and full-on steering input, and the first stage of an acceleration strip, when you're settling the car on the straight and smoothly applying throttle, are all about getting that minute input right in my opinion. There are a couple tenths of a second to be gain on a single corner there – which could be all you need to compensate for a worse straight-out speed setup. Think of Red Bull and Ferrari a few seasons ago. 

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2 minutes ago, marioho said:

 

One thing I don't regret doing is spending a couple minutes on the calibration tab of the controller settings to get a feel to what pressure would equal 20/50/80 percent throttle/brake pressure. 

Annnnd I didn't even know this was a thing. Makes sense though.

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1 minute ago, Peachrocks said:

Annnnd I didn't even know this was a thing. Makes sense though.

Dude you're making me blush! This way it almost looks like I know a thing or two.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, marioho said:

 

Dude you're making me blush! This way it almost looks like I know a thing or two.

And you're making me feel stupid and slow again. Wait a minute, I haven't got my usual avatar. There he is... Fits my team too, Slowpoke Procrastinati. We procrastinated so much we couldn't be bothered to put in the last three letters. (It only fits 22 characters)

Any chance of you putting your setups on the f1 car setup page? :D. 

Edited by Peachrocks

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1 hour ago, Peachrocks said:

And you're making me feel stupid and slow again. Wait a minute, I haven't got my usual avatar. There he is... Fits my team too, Slowpoke Procrastinati. We procrastinated so much we couldn't be bothered to put in the last three letters. (It only fits 22 characters)

Any chance of you putting your setups on the f1 car setup page? :D. 

I plan on doing so. I'm not confident they're that good though specially because I've been doing setups for my first season of My Team, where we have a boat with wheels for a car. With a poor equipment to perform with, usual challenges like wheel spin and understeer get accentuated and so does our particular way of handling them. 

I play on a pad. Oversteer on corner exit is my kryptonite as steering with an analog stick is not exactly painless. Hence my being willing to sacrifice top speed in favor of downforce to a higher degree than the average player. But that's me, maybe you play on a pad likewise but knows how to steady your ride on corner exit like a champ, but finds it difficult to trail brake properly so you're more worried with understeer than your pro player of choice.

Hopefully those gaps get ironed out with time.  

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2020 at 3:12 PM, David Greco CM said:

3. Lean fuel doesn't do anything to engine wear, nor good or bad. Will make sure you don't overheat the engine. The bad stuff for the engine is overheating, so, the more power you demand, the more the risk of wear.

Ah, if only I'd known this a few years ago. I've been manually doing my in/out laps (as opposed to using the "flying lap" and "Return to garage" options) in career mode and always set the fuel to lean thinking that it would be better for engine wear.

I guess that it will save me time for my 2020 gameplay

Edited by CarloLewis
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@David Greco CM I have a question I'm curious about as a player 🙂 

 

What settings would you recommend tweaking when converting a Time Trial setup into a race setup?

There's a different focus in Time Trial as maximum performance is extracted over a single lap, but in a race there's other factors like tyre wear and driving consistency.

 

Curious to know your thoughts 🙂 

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David,

Which part of the setup is more important? I think that tweaking your suspension and geometry as well as brake balance and tyre pressures won’t make you much more faster for a race. For me aero setup is the most important while differential is a matter of taste.

What is your opinion and thoughts about that?

Thank a lot.

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2 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Curious to know your thoughts 🙂 

Just imagine learning this from the man himself! That'd be some gold worthy info.

24 minutes ago, philappleraily said:

David,

Which part of the setup is more important? I think that tweaking your suspension and geometry as well as brake balance and tyre pressures won’t make you much more faster for a race. For me aero setup is the most important while differential is a matter of taste.

What is your opinion and thoughts about that?

Thank a lot.

I think that is not that clear cut. I wouldn't go about thinking in terms of what is "more important".

If you wonder what have a "more significant impact on top speed"? Then yes, aero is key. Both because it is what more drastically affects drag (key factor on straighty straghty not turny tracks like Monza) and what more drastically affects downforce (key for oh **** there goes my second front wing Moncaco).

Suspension, suspension geometry and brake bias come in the mix as a way to tackle handling problems without so drastic of an effect on top speed. Hence there being scenarios that, depending on the track and the state of your car, your suspension setup for instance will be way more important to provide you with the best possible performance than a notch up or down on Aero.

If you're looking for the most significant setup change for top speed, aero. The most significant setup change for fixing oversteer on corner entry without negatively affecting top speed, may brake bias or suspension. The most significant setup change for fixing understeer mid corner without negatively affecting your ability to ride kerbs and bumps, probably suspension geometry.

Not that clear cut in my opinion.

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8 hours ago, marioho said:

I plan on doing so. I'm not confident they're that good though specially because I've been doing setups for my first season of My Team, where we have a boat with wheels for a car. With a poor equipment to perform with, usual challenges like wheel spin and understeer get accentuated and so does our particular way of handling them. 

I play on a pad. Oversteer on corner exit is my kryptonite as steering with an analog stick is not exactly painless. Hence my being willing to sacrifice top speed in favor of downforce to a higher degree than the average player. But that's me, maybe you play on a pad likewise but knows how to steady your ride on corner exit like a champ, but finds it difficult to trail brake properly so you're more worried with understeer than your pro player of choice.

Hopefully those gaps get ironed out with time.  

Eh a lot of people are driving the same boat with wheels so its very useful. Some people put two setups, one for career with their team and another for time trial. I'm a pad user and can't be bothered to get a wheel for one game (storage space is a thing). Ultimately I adapt any set up to the needs I have in the ways I know how and a bit of guessing and hoping and then immediately undoing.

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I've PMed @Peachrocks with this already but figured that is no reason not to post it here too.

Not long ago I uploaded this Excel worksheet for people to take note of their performance and setups. I'm working on expanding it and will try to post a F1 2020 version this week. But I don't mind sharing the work in progress!

It is still a mess. Like, Capital "M" Mess. But you'll be able to see my setups and my understanding of how things work. I'll most definitely revisit lots of definitions as each day I learn something new and it's been a while since I jolted it down on the spreadsheet, but maybe you could put it to use as it is. I'll settle down on a format style and put sense into it all soon.

I started playing Codemasters F1 maybe three weeks ago? I don't remember. But I was a slow cow playing at AI lvl 19 that had never heard of toe beyond the anatomic sense and the xvideos kinky category. So yeah, there's that.

I suggest reading the topic first. 

F1 2020 setups and performance.xlsx

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Posted (edited)

Guys, one big question. I actually had one question for David but will test it better before asking.

This is for everyone. Why nobody is setting up a neutral car (close to neutral car in terms of suspensions)? Something like 5 5 wings, 65 off diff, 44 77 45 with small adjustments to the suspensions geometry or the front/rear suspensions.

Edited by sirio994

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, sirio994 said:

Guys, one big question. I actually had one question for David but will test it better before asking.

This is for everyone. Why nobody is setting up a neutral car (close to neutral car in terms of suspensions)? Something like 5 5 wings, 65 off diff, 44 77 45 with small adjustments to the suspensions geometry or the front/rear suspensions.

It is very rare that a car will have two lines of symmetry in regards to setup. Suspension balance will need to differ because the loads and jobs of each end of the car are completely different. The actual aero balance in single seaters is most often biased towards the rear (usually around 38% to 46% front aero balance, depending on car and series) but the adjustments mean that the front is a finer adjustment than the rear, which often leads to it having higher values. The differential needs to do completely different jobs on and off throttle - what's the point of a LSD if you don't take advantage of it? And so on.

A 'neutral' symmetrical setup doesn't necessarily mean a neutral car either -- often it actually means the car is poorly setup. 

Edited by amphobius
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1 hour ago, amphobius said:

It is very rare that a car will have two lines of symmetry in regards to setup. Suspension balance will need to differ because the loads and jobs of each end of the car are completely different. The actual aero balance in single seaters is most often biased towards the rear (usually around 38% to 46% front aero balance, depending on car and series) but the adjustments mean that the front is a finer adjustment than the rear, which often leads to it having higher values. The differential needs to do completely different jobs on and off throttle - what's the point of a LSD if you don't take advantage of it? And so on.

A 'neutral' symmetrical setup doesn't necessarily mean a neutral car either -- often it actually means the car is poorly setup. 

I still don't understand. In too many setups I see attempts to fix problems created by the setup it self. What's the point of trying to fix the understeer created by 3-9 wings. Why 3-9 to begin with when the aero balance is changed?

As David said you can achieve the same balance with closer/different numbers in a more intuitive way.

I understand you want specific numbers here and there. I didn't mean neutral as symmetrical but closer.

I think there are a lot of things done based on past experiences.

Setups didn't exist in the past, it was just a balancing act of the aggressive ballast. It was just a matter of searching a combination that worked well with a high to very high ballast.

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@sirio994 it probably stems from working over previous setups, as I am doing with my F1 2019 setups, and on the different consequences any change to a particular slider can triggers. Both the changing of the rear wing angle and that of the anti-roll bar can fix oversteering for instance, but the former gives you drag on straights and the latter changes the handling of your car when you ride a kerb.

If the issues you are facing are fixable by changing a single item, then you're golden. More often than not though that changing causes another effect that must be addressed by tweaking a third item and so on and on. It becomes an act of balancing the overall package to suit your needs.

And your car on season 1 of My Team or your Williams on season 1 of Career won't perform the same as when you've upgraded them by the time season 3 rolls in. You will revisit your setup in the meantime to adjust to that better performance. Chassis and Aero upgrades above all have a direct impact on how much you need to compromise one aspect in name of another, I think. 

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7 hours ago, sirio994 said:

Guys, one big question. I actually had one question for David but will test it better before asking.

This is for everyone. Why nobody is setting up a neutral car (close to neutral car in terms of suspensions)? Something like 5 5 wings, 65 off diff, 44 77 45 with small adjustments to the suspensions geometry or the front/rear suspensions.

I did and this works really well. Preset setups are actually quite good starting points this year and you tweak one or two things. Be careful with suspension geometry and tyre temperature and wear though.

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4 hours ago, sirio994 said:

I still don't understand. In too many setups I see attempts to fix problems created by the setup it self. What's the point of trying to fix the understeer created by 3-9 wings. Why 3-9 to begin with when the aero balance is changed?

As David said you can achieve the same balance with closer/different numbers in a more intuitive way.

I understand you want specific numbers here and there. I didn't mean neutral as symmetrical but closer.

I think there are a lot of things done based on past experiences.

Setups didn't exist in the past, it was just a balancing act of the aggressive ballast. It was just a matter of searching a combination that worked well with a high to very high ballast.

Many people think they need to change things in setups anyway while standard setups are quite good! I agree that starting with balanced aero makes things simpler.

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Posted (edited)

Hi @David Greco CM

First of all thanks for doing this, I've learnt a lot in this thread already.

I am struggling with traction under acceleration out of slow corners. Apart from moving the on-differential to 50% and being more gentle with the accelerator pedal, is there anything else I can do with my set up to make this less of an issue?

Edited by mischaw

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6 minutes ago, mischaw said:

Hi @David Greco CM

First of all thanks for doing this, I've learnt a lot in this thread already.

I am struggling with traction under acceleration out of slow corners. Apart from moving the on-differential to 50% and being more gentle with the accelerator pedal, is there anything else I can do with my set up to make this less of an issue?

You can strive for more planted rear of the car like lowering the tyre temperature, modify the rear camber and toe amongst other things.

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1 hour ago, mischaw said:

Hi @David Greco CM

First of all thanks for doing this, I've learnt a lot in this thread already.

I am struggling with traction under acceleration out of slow corners. Apart from moving the on-differential to 50% and being more gentle with the accelerator pedal, is there anything else I can do with my set up to make this less of an issue?

The one thing that really helped me with this is not actually setup related... though you could argue it is in way (i’m sure they can setup throttle mapping).

Try adding some linearity to the accelerator in the controller setup. I use about 25 and it gives you a finer control at low input.

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2 hours ago, mischaw said:

Hi @David Greco CM

First of all thanks for doing this, I've learnt a lot in this thread already.

I am struggling with traction under acceleration out of slow corners. Apart from moving the on-differential to 50% and being more gentle with the accelerator pedal, is there anything else I can do with my set up to make this less of an issue?

 

40 minutes ago, kalamazoo123 said:

The one thing that really helped me with this is not actually setup related... though you could argue it is in way (i’m sure they can setup throttle mapping).

Try adding some linearity to the accelerator in the controller setup. I use about 25 and it gives you a finer control at low input.

I was just about to recommend this.

I have Throttle Linearity set to 50 on both pad and wheel and it feels fine in most scenarios. I can still spin if I'm really pushing it (like on a Qualy run) but that's nothing a low Diff and early upshift can't sort.

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