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David Greco's Handling, Driving and Setup Q&A

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List of all the Answers

General
What have changed, improved, the such?
Track surfaces, evolution of grip over the weekend and rain
Testing by real drivers in the future, and assist balance
What kind of setups does the AI use?
Grip scaling

Driving
Starts in F2

Driving in dirty air
How does brakes fading affect the driving and how to manage it?

Setup
F1 2019 setup to 2020, what to look at?
More downforce in the front or in the rear?

Dry tire temperature range & What do tire pressures affect?
What do tire pressures affect?
Do hotter temperatures affect the oversteer of the car?

Modifying default setups to be less understeery
Time Trial setup to race setup (Multiple answers in a row)

Handling
Difference between Mercedes and the Multiplayer car
F2 and engine braking
Is the FFB same as the beta, and info about an upcoming fix
Does the game implement a "Coca Cola bottle effect"?
Does the game implement the possibility of brakes overheating and tire temperatures dropping under SC/VSC?
Do the dry tires have a blanket operating range?
Is the altitude simulated in-game?
Will the game implement the grip differences of a wet rubbered in track?

Does the AI have dynamic tire temperatures?
Does the AI performance scale depending on the weather conditions?

Wheel / Controller Setups
Thrustmaster Control Panel Settings & T300
T300 In-game FFB settings
Greco's in-game wheel settings

Settings to get a linear curve in F1 games

Multiple Questions from Multiple Categories
Racing Line, What gears is overtake most effective and Lean fuel mix and engine wear

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19 minutes ago, Bertje1989 said:

I have this as wel agains AI as wel ass in Online. But I'm guessing I needmore practice I guess 🙂

Against the AI it's pretty normal you start on warming up tyres and they start with stable and perfect temperatures. Plus they use a lot of ERS after the start. That's why they drop off a bit after 2-3 laps. It's not as evident as it was in the past but they clearly use more ERS than an experienced user would...

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23 minutes ago, SIMRACER123 said:

It's probably a reassuring thing if it's just needing practice.

Why not try going onto grand prix mode and selecting a 50% race, do the first 5 laps then click on "restart session" and the car is placed back on the grid and you can start again and do the early laps once more over and over.

Might be a quicker way to practice driving the early part of the race.

I think I'll follow your suggestion, so I can practice my starts also.

Driving in FP with the race amount of fuel isn't perfect as the grip of the track is different then in the race.

Thanks for your replies

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David,

I don’t know if this has been answered but has the track and air temperature an influence on tyre? If so, does that mean that you have to lower your pressure in case of hot time or the contrary?

Thank you for your feedback.

Best Regards.

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Just now, philappleraily said:

David,

I don’t know if this has been answered but has the track and air temperature an influence on tyre? If so, does that mean that you have to lower your pressure in case of hot time or the contrary?

Thank you for your feedback.

Best Regards.

This is a good question, can i add for David, does track temp affect which tyre compound you could use? I.e Hards, more likely to get up to working range quicker on a warm track and make it a better consideration to use.

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@Bertje1989 what you're describing sounds like the difficulty of driving a heavy car with cold tyres in the beginning of a race. The issue gets accentuated on 50% and 100% races as the fuel load is drastically bigger and as far as I know those things are not scaled on the handling model to be equal across all race lengths.

Do you experience similar issues when you pit for a set of hard (and cold) tyres as well? It does not need to be the same feeling; if the handling is at least comparable, I'd totally chalk it off as being what @SIMRACER123 said. A heavy car with sub optimal rubber is no joke to handle.  

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2 hours ago, marioho said:

@Bertje1989 what you're describing sounds like the difficulty of driving a heavy car with cold tyres in the beginning of a race. The issue gets accentuated on 50% and 100% races as the fuel load is drastically bigger and as far as I know those things are not scaled on the handling model to be equal across all race lengths.

Do you experience similar issues when you pit for a set of hard (and cold) tyres as well? It does not need to be the same feeling; if the handling is at least comparable, I'd totally chalk it off as being what @SIMRACER123 said. A heavy car with sub optimal rubber is no joke to handle.  

It's exactly as you describe there, the thing with the hard tyres as well. I guess I'd better start practicing 😂

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@Bertje1989 for real? Haha what a relief then! Make sure to warm up your tyres on the formation lap to proper working ranges, as below:

Tyre ideal temperatures
Dry		85-100ºC
Inter		70-85ºC
Wet		60-75ºC

Formation lap used to be practically mandatory in F1 2019. The game did not give you warmed up tyres if you chose to disable them. I don't know if that is the case this year too, but since I like doing them regardless I never bothered to try. 

Other than that, the only concrete thing you may do is to change the braking bias while with a heavy car? That could help with the weight shifting around and it can be done on the fly. I wouldn't go about changing my setups only to account for a heavy car though, unless I'm on a track where the first laps are crucial to the race result.

 

 

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Please check the answers before posting a new question. More knowledge isn't harmful anyways 🙂 

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On 7/16/2020 at 10:23 AM, David Greco CM said:

They do but not as sensitive for the player. almost none. They can't dynamically change tyre pressure in setup, and adjust to driving so much due to temps. Would be too much data for the ai.

This scenario sounds like that high if not highest tyre pressure were needed.

Does this mean that in changeable weather the AI are much more difficult? Or is the pace scaled in some way? If the AI do not suffer the issue of having bad tyre temps this could mean much more difficult races in changing weather conditions which wouldn't be much fun

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On 7/29/2020 at 10:56 PM, DeMilo86 said:

Does this mean that in changeable weather the AI are much more difficult? Or is the pace scaled in some way? If the AI do not suffer the issue of having bad tyre temps this could mean much more difficult races in changing weather conditions which wouldn't be much fun

No, we make sure is always as fair as possible, so, it is scaled.

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Posted (edited)

Are the 1-11 values for aero and springs absolute or relative to each track and / or each car? And if they are absolute, why does it seem like 11-11 aero has less drag at Monza than at higher downforce tracks? For example, in F1 2019 - Time Trial - Italy - Mercedes, the default setup with 11-11 aero tops at 315 KM/H, while in Mexico it tops at 308 KM/H.

It seems like most people on reddit believe they are relative to each track, but there are still many that believe they are absolute.

Also, why does the game not show actual values for those settings? Is it because the teams don't want attributes that are specific to each car to be shown in the game?

Edited by Aparow3
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Is there any link between the AI difficulty setting and the number or type of mistakes that they make? I ask as for those racing at higher difficulties (95+) mistakes definitely seem to be a good feature of the game but it's less clear this is the case for lower AI levels. 

This thread made me ask:

 

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For years the best straight-line speed has been achieved with 11 front ride height (11-1 or 11-2), why? In relation to this question I've wondered if ride height related drag is absolute or relative? What I mean is, is there a difference in drag if the angle of attack of the car changes, so for example does 4-8 produce the same drag as 6-6 ride height?

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On 7/8/2020 at 12:25 PM, David Greco CM said:

no, in the past, it wasn't doing anything. it was just a "spring" 

now is:

low pressure = more grip at low speed, lower temperature, higher wear. 

high pressure = more grip at high speed, higher temperature, less wear. 

yes, is a bit more linear the loss of grip with temperature, less exponential compared to last year. 

But @David Greco CM, if the high pressure helps to raise temperature, let's say that the tyre temperature stays in about 103, 104 Celsius. Will we then have more tyre wear than if running with lower pressure and lower temperatures?

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16 minutes ago, Carlos Lazzarini said:

But @David Greco CM, if the high pressure helps to raise temperature, let's say that the tyre temperature stays in about 103, 104 Celsius. Will we then have more tyre wear than if running with lower pressure and lower temperatures?

Tyre wear is a tricky beast. It can come from two different paths. 

 It could be tyre degradation from high temperatures and it could be tyre wear from physical abrasion with the tarmac.

If what you're dealing with is just one tyre overheating, it's an easy fix. Just lower the tyre pressure.

However lowering the pressure provides more give to the tyre structure, making it roll and flex and hug the tarmac way more. So you may be decreasing wear from overheating rubber, but increasing it from abrasion. To dampen the effect of abrasion, you should be increasing the tyre pressure.

Abrasion is more handedly dealt with suspension geometry though. Decreasing camber and toe will make the tyre suffer less on the track. Tweaking the suspension (springs and anti roll bars) also helps as it shifts the balance around and may alleviate the load on the outside tyres.

Be mindful of when you're getting your readings. A tyre temperature fluctuates during the lap. If you consistently read the temps after, say, a hard left hander, then you'll be consistently finding your right tyres hotter than your lefts. And even if they break the 100+ degrees threshold on a particular corner or complex of corners, your average tyre temperature may still be reasonable low, suggesting that the wear and that isolated overheated moment comes are due to your overall suspension setup, not tyre pressure.

TL;DR: decrease pressure if it is overheating. If it is wearing out due to abrasion, increase pressure or tweak your suspension and suspension geometry.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks a lot @marioho, I agree, but I can't stop wondering how the game deal with this tyre model and which is the temperature that they use to have big tyre degradation from high temperatures. Silverstone I have the telemetry data and my setup put me with the both front tyres all the lap varying in the 102-107 range. I think that is too much despite that was a good setup. 

Edited by Carlos Lazzarini

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Posted (edited)

@David Greco CM Is it normal that the classic cars had no Grip? I‘m driving the Red Bull 2010 and it’s terrible, feels like if I‘m running 11-1 wings with the modern cars, even I use 4-9 wings. I‘m spinning if I‘m on the throttle, even on 10%. I‘m driving without traction control. But other classic cars are not much better. Even the cars were slower and harder doesn’t mean, they didn’t had Grip.

PS: Weight Distribution aka Ballast was between 2014-18 in F1. That’s also unrealistic.

Edited by MissionTime05

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Posted (edited)

Do tyre pressures affect ride height like the suspension and body roll like the anti-roll bars?

Edited by Aparow3

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On 8/5/2020 at 9:26 AM, MissionTime05 said:

@David Greco CM Is it normal that the classic cars had no Grip? I‘m driving the Red Bull 2010 and it’s terrible, feels like if I‘m running 11-1 wings with the modern cars, even I use 4-9 wings. I‘m spinning if I‘m on the throttle, even on 10%. I‘m driving without traction control. But other classic cars are not much better. Even the cars were slower and harder doesn’t mean, they didn’t had Grip.

PS: Weight Distribution aka Ballast was between 2014-18 in F1. That’s also unrealistic.

I have to agree. I selected the McLaren MP4 13 for this weekend's event and the first time I drove it I couldn't put 3 corners together. As it is now, after more than 70 laps practicing, I think I am still losing up to a second a lap because I have to be sooooo gentle putting on the power after a corner. I have no doubt if I was a Jedi Master in the black art of creating setups I might get somewhere but I don't have that skill and have exhausted the usual options of anti-roll bar/diff power lock/rear springs.

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I ran the 2010 red bull car during the Japanese weekly event and it was okay in terms of downforce if I put in some high downforce wing setting, but I share the same feeling with @Lurtz about the MP4-13. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I'm feathering the throttle but the car wants to step out from under me even in 4th gear.

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56 minutes ago, MissionTime05 said:

@David Greco CM why it’s not possible to set negative toe/toe-out in the front tyres?

My guess is because the cars need to turn and toe-in is meant for straight-line travel. But, I'll defer to David for a final answer because I suspect there may be more to it than that.

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Thanks for all the questions, I'll lock this for the time being 🙂 

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