David Greco's Handling, Driving and Setup Q&A

[GBPolesitter 99]

3 hours ago, marioho said:

@David Greco CM it was asked a couple pages ago but can you confirm that the rubberizing effect of the track has been accentuated this year? I'll start to take notes for real but seems to me that my laptimes across all three practice sessions improves way more than on F1 2019. I even gave up trying the Qualy Pace programme on P2 and left it for P3 because of the apparent differences in grip. 

I’ve definitely noticed a huge effect after a few 100% race weekends. Track starts out super slow in FP1 and then I’m 3 seconds or so faster by Q3

[marioho 689]

16 minutes ago, GBPolesitter said:

I’ve definitely noticed a huge effect after a few 100% race weekends. Track starts out super slow in FP1 and then I’m 3 seconds or so faster by Q3

Well, we need to take in account the impact of running under Max Fuel Mix as we do on Qualy, but yeah, I definitely felt faster on P3 compared to P1.

[RockSteel53 2]

For the PC game something is wrong with FFB! It is light in curves and without sensations of contact of the tires with the asphalt. Any correction prediction for this? Please! FFB in 2019 was excellent what happened with 2020?

[Peachrocks 29]

Okay I was unsure whether I should comment or not but okay here I go. 

Hi! I'm a pad nub (I like my pad and don't want to use valuable space for something I'll use for one game go away :D). I'm not too fussy on the setups, I usually just wait a bit and copy one of Styx's and modify it slightly, just the wings, I know what that does and can tell the difference :D. 

Every year at the start while I don't have that luxury, I think 'maybe if I just figured it out', I look into it and.... I can't figure out what anything does and just use the defaults with minor changes here and there and suck it up. The wording is vague with words like 'it may do this', well does it do it or doesn't it! It's like the words make complete sentences but I do not understand them 😄. 

I have a rough idea of what ride height is and what I should do with it but why exactly you should raise it in the wet (or so I hear) I don't know. I'd like to get a better understanding of this stuff if possible 

[Arttu1202 55]

ABS seems to be OP currently. If you check TT leaderboards on PS4, most of top times are made with ABS on. I haven’t driven with ABS for two years now and just tried it, it’s way too good. Braking distances are equal when there is no risk of locking up with ABS off. However for an example Vietnam T1, you can gain hugely time because you can brake a bit later than with ABS off as you can start turning at the same time without worrying about locking up. It was well balanced in F1 2019 as with ABS braking distances were longer. It should be like this in F1 2020 also as ABS is an assist. Is this going to be nerfed?

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Arttu1202

[LILLHELM 186]

I already noticed that yesterday. It's scary.
ABS should help beginners.
Not allowing quick people to be as quick or faster than people without ABS.

it is massive op

Please fix shortly via patch.

Thank you!

[marioho 689]

7 hours ago, Peachrocks said:

Every year at the start while I don't have that luxury, I think 'maybe if I just figured it out', I look into it and.... I can't figure out what anything does and just use the defaults with minor changes here and there and suck it up. The wording is vague with words like 'it may do this', well does it do it or doesn't it! It's like the words make complete sentences but I do not understand them 😄. 

I have a rough idea of what ride height is and what I should do with it but why exactly you should raise it in the wet (or so I hear) I don't know. I'd like to get a better understanding of this stuff if possible 

The wording seems vague because every setup configuration do have a margin for producing the intended effects. The reason being let's say you have a slider that will produce the effect A at the cost of also producing the non-desired effect B, while you also have a slider that produces B' at the cost of causing C. The end result will be a car with distinct A, a dampened B (as B' is counteracting B) and a distinct C – or AbC if you want haha

So maybe you're experiencing understeer and do some change intended to fix it. Your choice has the non-desired but expected effect (as by the wording on the screen) of reducing speed on the straights. But you may not experience said reduced speed, at least not to its full extent, if you changed say the camber to have a better contact patch on the straights thus better grip and more acceleration. 

Setups are your little orchestras and you tune them to play for your liking. 

Yes, ride height should be raised to race on the wet. Basically, you'll always want to ride on as low a height as possible to produce better downforce, as ride height has the luxury of doing so without the drastic trade-off of worse drag on straights. But if it raining, you'll probably should raise the height by a couple notches each if you're aquaplaning i.e. slipping too much. It could happen depending on how much water is on the track surface and on the track layout, so there won't be a one size fits all.  

[DavidGreco 405]

Guys, ABS, force feedback issues, these could be reporting as bugs, but not in this thread, here is Q&A, I am not discussing issues here, and is not the right place to ask for fixes, thanks.

[DavidGreco 405]

20 hours ago, philappleraily said:

David,

A novelty this year is dirty air? How do you feel it and how to avoid it?

Thanks.

Is hard to avoid it. Is more of a problem following the cars, but is mainly due to the fact that the car have more downforce in general, creating more turbolence and so on. Try to anticipate the corners maybe, knowing that you will go wider by the end of the corner because of less downforce

[Neomo 162]

@David Greco CM I just wanted to thank you. This year i have no problem to switch between sims and F1.The greatest progress in recent years in terms of car handling.Is like day and night compared to 19. Cheers

[DavidGreco 405]

6 minutes ago, Neomo said:

@David Greco CM I just wanted to thank you. This year i have no problem to switch between sims and F1.The greatest progress in recent years in terms of car handling.Is like day and night compared to 19. Cheers

I fell the same. I can jump to rFactor2 after F1 and vice versa without issues. Thanks 🙂

[sirio994 293]

1 hour ago, David Greco CM said:

I fell the same. I can jump to rFactor2 after F1 and vice versa without issues. Thanks 🙂

This is so true. Plus you don't have to learn techniques that won't work elsewhere.

I was wandering: what does the AI run indicatively (in terms of setups)? They are so fast in the straights...is it due to the current balancing or do they run insane low downforce?

[philappleraily 214]

This year the setups seem to have more downforce than previous games.

Should you go with more downforce to the front or to the rear in f1 2020?
Thank you.

[LChaves01 65]

2 hours ago, Neomo said:

@David Greco CM I just wanted to thank you. This year i have no problem to switch between sims and F1.The greatest progress in recent years in terms of car handling.Is like day and night compared to 19. Cheers

Yeah last year when i drove 2019 after a session on anything else it would feel so alien and unnatural.

I still would like a bit more movement in the rear, but now it's seamless.

[DavidGreco 405]

1 hour ago, sirio994 said:

This is so true. Plus you don't have to learn techniques that won't work elsewhere.

I was wandering: what does the AI run indicatively (in terms of setups)? They are so fast in the straights...is it due to the current balancing or do they run insane low downforce?

4 5 wings i think and very low rake, is what works best for them.

[DavidGreco 405]

37 minutes ago, philappleraily said:

This year the setups seem to have more downforce than previous games.

Should you go with more downforce to the front or to the rear in f1 2020?
Thank you.

depends a lot on the mechanical balance you give the car. I tend to have equal wings and a bit more stiff rear mechanically.

Some like to go very stiff rear mechanically, but then have to run either low front wing or high rear wing to balance it out.

[Oli Prenten 11]

Very good job on the handling Greco! 😎

[ReimvomSchleim 193]

Hi @David Greco CM, my question would be concerning altitude in the game, which really is only important for Mexico, Brazil and Austria.

Is altitude simulated in the game, so you have less downforce at Mexico and need higher wings? Also, are temperatures affected by the altitude in game as it is in real life?

Just wondering as it probably would be quite difficult to do I guess.

[sirio994 293]

5 hours ago, David Greco CM said:

depends a lot on the mechanical balance you give the car. I tend to have equal wings and a bit more stiff rear mechanically.

Some like to go very stiff rear mechanically, but then have to run either low front wing or high rear wing to balance it out.

I have been using the second approach in past. But since you suggested it I'm setting up the car like you do and I'm enjoying the new approach a lot. It might be driving style related but I find that with equal or very close wings you set your downforce and work from it. It's easier to isolate and fix problems.

With very low front wing and very high rear wing, if you fix or change something over time you'll probably have to rethink the whole setup and even change wings.

With your method if you have understeer/oversteer it comes from X and/or Y. With great separation between the wings if you have a problem it might be because of X and Y which at the same time have to be that way because of Z.

It is definitely the most natural and intuitive approach.

[Fetal 8]

On 7/8/2020 at 10:06 PM, David Greco CM said:

is the way our ui works, min is on the left max is on the right, being a negative number, is confusing i know, but that is how it works. 

-2.5 is the MIN camber you can set. -3.5 is the MAX you can set.

all the way right should be for speed (monza) , and all the way left is for corners (Hungary) ..

its simple if you ignore the smaller number vs higher number and think of it as tilt... MIN tilt vs MAX tilt.

its counter intuitive to have it min max by the math because its about the TILT of the tyre... you are not talking which number is bigger or smaller, you are talking about which ANGLE is bigger... -2.5 is small and -3.5 is big. you put a picture of a tyre sitting flat at MIN (left) end and you put a angled tyre at the MAX (right) end.

yes -3.5 is smaller than -2.5 as a number, but LARGER as an angle, which is what CAMBER of tyres is about.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Fetal
additional info

[Fetal 8]

here ill fix it for you mathematically ... using non decimal places to keep it simple.

90 degrees (angle) = 0 camber .. straight up and down.

91 = -1 camber ..smallest tilt (min camber)

93 = -3 camber ... biggest tilt (max camber)

now its min - max mathematically as well as left to right and no one can misunderstand it ..

[KulishS 159]

@David Greco CM

David, you mentioned brakes are fading, but when exactly do brakes fading and how it can be monitored or managed?

[Peachrocks 29]

19 hours ago, marioho said:

The wording seems vague because every setup configuration do have a margin for producing the intended effects. The reason being let's say you have a slider that will produce the effect A at the cost of also producing the non-desired effect B, while you also have a slider that produces B' at the cost of causing C. The end result will be a car with distinct A, a dampened B (as B' is counteracting B) and a distinct C – or AbC if you want haha

So maybe you're experiencing understeer and do some change intended to fix it. Your choice has the non-desired but expected effect (as by the wording on the screen) of reducing speed on the straights. But you may not experience said reduced speed, at least not to its full extent, if you changed say the camber to have a better contact patch on the straights thus better grip and more acceleration. 

Setups are your little orchestras and you tune them to play for your liking. 

Yes, ride height should be raised to race on the wet. Basically, you'll always want to ride on as low a height as possible to produce better downforce, as ride height has the luxury of doing so without the drastic trade-off of worse drag on straights. But if it raining, you'll probably should raise the height by a couple notches each if you're aquaplaning i.e. slipping too much. It could happen depending on how much water is on the track surface and on the track layout, so there won't be a one size fits all.  

 

Yeah I figured as much in terms of the whole Abc thing and margin for producing results and things that work with other things. Setups might be a little orchestra but I'm just banging on the drums here. 

Let's keep this simple. Say I wanted to minimize tire wear. What would I change and what would be the potential trade offs of doing so? I think I know the answer to this but I want to check my answers.

[DavidGreco 405]

10 hours ago, ReimvomSchleim said:

Hi @David Greco CM, my question would be concerning altitude in the game, which really is only important for Mexico, Brazil and Austria.

Is altitude simulated in the game, so you have less downforce at Mexico and need higher wings? Also, are temperatures affected by the altitude in game as it is in real life?

Just wondering as it probably would be quite difficult to do I guess.

No is not simulated. Temperature a little bit, but not much, is not very sensitive to it. hopefully I can increase that sensitivity to temps in next games. 

[marioho 689]

43 minutes ago, Peachrocks said:

Let's keep this simple. Say I wanted to minimize tire wear. What would I change and what would be the potential trade offs of doing so? I think I know the answer to this but I want to check my answers.

Change tyre pressure at the expense of less responsiveness. Unlock the differentials at the expense of a worse acceleration out of corners and potentially oversteer. Lower the aero angle at the expense of lower downforce and thus lower grip on corners.

So trade offs: responsiveness (corner entry mostly), corner exit (and oversteer), and tunability.

Conversely you also gain, respectively, better grip on corners, better tunability, and less drag 

Edit: I'm forgetting suspension and suspension geometry, sorry.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by marioho