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A different customisation (or lack thereof) gripe

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I just started up F1 2020 for the first time. You know the old adage about "you never get a second chance to make a first impression"? It applies here.

I wasted my time trying to set up a RaceNet account, tediously filled in the e-mail address, generated a secure password, filled it in twice, all that... then the account couldn't be created because the legalese bloviations that you call "terms and conditions" were unavailable. Way to go.

Then I went to set up my own team, using my own team name. Except... it contained a "restricted word". What was that word? "Scuderia".

Here's a newsflash, Codemasters, there's this thing called a DICTIONARY. And if you bothered to use it, or had any appreciation of F1 history, or motorsport history in general, you would see that that word is *NOT* an exclusive brand name of Ferrari but rather a generic word in Italian that dates back to WELL before Enzo saw his first set of wheels. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/italian-english/scuderia It is used by MANY Italian racing teams. Just not mine, apparently.

And double newsflash in case you were wondering, Ferrari doesn't own the word "Tifosi" either. Some of us do speak more than one language, and understand these things.

So:

- I can't customise my team with my own team name;

- I can barely customise anything else because you've put so much of it behind not just a paywall, but some incredibly cryptic paywall. One where you need to try to figure out not just how to buy something, but how to get the points to pay for something, and what random challenges may be appearing, or whether you can pay cash for something or... Hey, I know, best of all, you can try to figure out what's in the market on that day because that can randomly change too, or so it appears.

Frankly, the only reason that I bought this edition of F1 was the 11th team option. And what do I get for that? A choice of half a dozen colours and MAYBE the name "Generic Racing", if I'm lucky.

Thanks for nothing.

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It is not solely Codemasters decision about what words are licensed and what words are not. If Ferrari put down in the contract which words cannot be used in my team mode, I suggest write them a complaint as well.

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1 minute ago, ragequit1 said:

It is not solely Codemasters decision about what words are licensed and what words are not. If Ferrari put down in the contract which words cannot be used in my team mode, I suggest write them a complaint as well.

Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully enough.

Ferrari has rights to the name "Ferrari". They do not own the rights to the Italian equivalent of the word "team".  Should I perhaps point out what the full name of the team known as Alpha Tauri was last year?

 

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1 minute ago, KOCTA said:

Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully enough.

Ferrari has rights to the name "Ferrari". They do not own the rights to the Italian equivalent of the word "team".  Should I perhaps point out what the full name of the team known as Alpha Tauri was last year?

 

Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. If Ferrari included other Italian words in the licensing contract, then again, how is that Codemasters fault?

This goes for every team basically and varies.

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1 minute ago, ragequit1 said:

Perhaps you didn't understand what I said.

What you said was irrelevant and had no basis in fact. Ferrari would not be arrogant enough to claim a generic word as part of any licencing contract, if for no other reason than that there are already other teams which are using the word. I was wrong about one thing; you don't have to look back one year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_AlphaTauri

To claim that the term "scuderia" should be off limits would be like Manchester United having a condition in their Football Manager contract that nobody else was allowed to use the word "club".

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I rest my case. 

You don't seem to understand licensing. No reason to waste more keyboard strokes here.

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1 minute ago, ragequit1 said:

I rest my case. 

You don't seem to understand licensing. No reason to waste more keyboard strokes here.

After you put forth such a compelling lack of argument, I certainly hope that's a promise.

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Not experienced in this area but would say that as Ferrari owns the rights to their car they could essentially say if you are allowed to use this word in your team now you cant use our car in your game. as @ragequit1 said, no point moaning to Codemasters about it, I'm sure they would have preferred that we were allowed to use any name and any sponsor.

Edited by smalls048
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Just now, smalls048 said:

Not experienced in this area but would say that as Ferrari owns the rights to their car they could essentially say if you are allowed to use this word in your team now you cant use our car in your game. as @ragequit1 said, no point moaning to Codemasters about it, I'm sure they would have preferred that we were allowed to use any name.

Yeah, nobody's experienced in this area, they just want to make sure that they've shown their undying love for Codemasters. Since you, like your predecessor, have no idea about whether you're talking fact or fiction but are offering empty, baseless speculation, perhaps you might like to clear the floor for someone from Codemasters to respond?

 

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6 minutes ago, KOCTA said:

After you put forth such a compelling lack of argument, I certainly hope that's a promise.

He's absolutely right. Theres absolutely nothing to stop Ferrari restricting the use of the word in an F1 term for the game. Nothing at all. Same reason we can't use Honda, Renault etc. It could be an oversight by CM, its most likely an enforced contract term.

 

Scuderia actually means stable anyway, not team. So perhaps you should get your own dictionary out first. 

Edited by magpieracer48
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1 minute ago, magpieracer48 said:

He's absolutely right. Theres absolutely nothing to stop Ferrari restricting the use of the word in an F1 term for the game. Nothing at all. Same reason we can't use Honda, Renault etc. It could be an oversight by CM, it could be enforced. 

 

Scuderia actually means stable anyway, not team. So perhaps you should get your own dictionary out first. 

It isn't the same reason at all. Honda, Renault etc are licenced names, scuderia, which DOES mean "team" in a motorsport context (check the link that I included in my original post, then go and tell the lexicographers how you know more than they do; also, I'm a native Italian speaker while you, I suspect, are not) is a GENERIC word.

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11 minutes ago, KOCTA said:

Yeah, nobody's experienced in this area, they just want to make sure that they've shown their undying love for Codemasters. Since you, like your predecessor, have no idea about whether you're talking fact or fiction but are offering empty, baseless speculation, perhaps you might like to clear the floor for someone from Codemasters to respond?

 

I'm quite happy to be openly critical about the f1 game, it is flawed, but in this particular aspect, you are making it sound as though Codemasters have gone out of their way to make a worse game. Do feel free to explain how adding a list of words that cant be used for no reason other than to laugh at the people buying the game would be a constructive use of their time. On that logic, the two people before me were not making "baseless speculation" and instead were making a logical conclusion.

Scuderia in English is also a place where horses are kept, eg, the prancing horses on the Ferrari logo. But that may just be an out of context meaning.

Edited by smalls048
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1 minute ago, KOCTA said:

It isn't the same reason at all. Honda, Renault etc are licenced names, scuderia, which DOES mean "team" in a motorsport context (check the link that I included in my original post, then go and tell the lexicographers how you know more than they do; also, I'm a native Italian speaker while you, I suspect, are not) is a GENERIC word.

Scuderia / Stable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScuderiaSmartSelect_20200709-131057_Chrome.thumb.jpg.65c7f9f4684dbb82be6759211fbe9d36.jpg

Also, things can be licensed in context. And as I and everyone else has said, it doesnt have to be a license requirement. Ferrari can just demand it. 

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As a native Italian speaker, Scuderia literally means "owned stable" its comes from the northern region when the only racing was from wealthy families putting their "Scuderia"  (horse stables) against each other for money in horse racing. Motorsport teams just copied that term as they were usually wealthy families also or had wealthy donors. 

As for the 'term' in the game Ferrari could demand their car be bright pink in the game not their real life red if they want, its all part of licence agreements and Codemasters would have to agree gain the licence to use their assets.

Perhaps @BarryBL who I know is very busy right now, maybe he can close this thread down as the tone of the arguments here is too aggressive for a simple MyTeam name

Edited by TomAAA
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1 minute ago, smalls048 said:

I'm quite happy to be openly critical about the f1 game, it is flawed, but in this particular aspect, you are making it sound as though Codemasters have gone out of their way to make a worse game. Do feel free to explain how adding a list of words that cant be used for no reason other than to laugh at the people buying the game would be a constructive use of their time. On that logic, the two people before me were not making "baseless speculation" and instead were making a logical conclusion.

You don't know what was in the contract. They don't know what was in the contract. That means that there was no basis for what was hollow speculation. There is no "logic" behind something that lacks facts. It would be just as logical to assume that it was a screw up by someone who didn't know what they were doing and did not in fact know that it's a generic word.

 

Just now, magpieracer48 said:

Scuderia / Stable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScuderiaSmartSelect_20200709-131057_Chrome.thumb.jpg.65c7f9f4684dbb82be6759211fbe9d36.jpg

Also, things can be licensed in context. And as I and everyone else has said, it doesnt have to be a license requirement. Ferrari can just demand it. 

First of all, well done, you're relying on Google Translate. It's as reliable and authoritative as a $2 watch. If you spoke multiple languages you would already know this. If you had followed the link to an actual dictionary you would see the OTHER meaning of the word, the one that applies in the field of motorsport. But hey, don't trouble yourself, it would be too much like learning something. (Like reading the WHOLE of the first paragraph of the wikipedia entry that you quoted.)

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3 minutes ago, TomAAA said:

As a native Italian speaker, Scuderia literally means "owned stable" its comes from the northern region when the only racing was from wealthy families putting their "Scuderia"  (horse stables) against each other for money in horse racing.

You'll have to point me to where either I (or the dictionary entry that I pointed to) said that it ISN'T used in that context, or didn't originate in that context. (Hint: I didn't, it didn't.)

If you're from Italia, you and I both know that there are a LOT of teams that use the word "scuderia".

Quote

Perhaps @BarryBL who I know is very busy right now, maybe he can close this thread down as the tone is too aggressive for a simple MyTeam name

Yeah, everybody loves a pile on. It's far easier than someone who has substantive information (which would be Codemasters, not Codemasters fans) addressing the issue.

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I've just read up on this so that I could make a well-informed point and I believe although, as you have hastened to point out on many an occasion, not sure. Ferrari can ask for something not to be used on grounds that it is affiliated with them, not just on the basis of them owning a word.

Edited by smalls048

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11 minutes ago, KOCTA said:

You'll have to point me to where either I (or the dictionary entry that I pointed to) said that it ISN'T used in that context, or didn't originate in that context. (Hint: I didn't, it didn't.)

If you're from Italia, you and I both know that there are a LOT of teams that use the word "scuderia".

Yeah, everybody loves a pile on. It's far easier than someone who has substantive information (which would be Codemasters, not Codemasters fans) addressing the issue.

You're being a bit silly really. Cant handle discussion or being told you're wrong. Given there's a native Italian speaker here literally telling you it means stable and you've refused to take that. I think this is a pointless thread opened by someone who can't cope with opinions different to his own.

Good luck.

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It's valid criticism I think. Consumer criticism is there to learn from. I read a lot of nonsense on this forum and consider myself a fanboy of this series but the OP has a valid point. I'm not from Italy so didn't opt for Scuderia but I did not choose especially because I'm not from Italy and not a fan of Ferrari. I can imagine if I lived in Italy or was a Ferrari fan my team name would have been Scuderia ...... or at least I would have wanted that and it sounds rather silly you can't use that generic word.

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37 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

It's valid criticism I think. Consumer criticism is there to learn from. I read a lot of nonsense on this forum and consider myself a fanboy of this series but the OP has a valid point. I'm not from Italy so didn't opt for Scuderia but I did not choose especially because I'm not from Italy and not a fan of Ferrari. I can imagine if I lived in Italy or was a Ferrari fan my team name would have been Scuderia ...... or at least I would have wanted that and it sounds rather silly you can't use that generic word.

I agree with what your saying seems silly really

@KOCTA There was an F1 team called BMS Scuderia Italia in the late eighties. You could try putting F1, team, or Forza in front of the word Scuderia to try and get around it  

Edited by Chromatic
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Well said. Emotions were rising here. Give your opinion but except the other too and stay decent. ( @ritti1987 that applies for you too) There are no idiots here, at least we don't mention it 😉

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I think it's time to call it a day before I raise my middle finger and put a lit on it. You obviously didn't get the message. Don't make this political, against forum rules. To keep you both happy I will hide offensive posts. Please refrain from being offensive.

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Which is fair tbh. You will understand your language and its sporting and cultural relevance far greater than I will for sure.

However, licences are licences. If that's how they want to represent themselves, which I can't possibly comment on, they have that choice. Would be a decision FOM, Ferrari and CM have discussed upon, and not your humble forum guy. 👍

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As an attorney practicing business law for 7 years, speaker of three languages with the ability to read in four and an internet warrior for all my life, this one tops the day on arrogance.

People don't have the slightest idea of the arm wrestle that goes between a licensor and licensee when negotiating a contract. The IP owner is not trying to be reasonable, he's trying to be overprotective of his property. It's up to the lawyers to jostle around until an agreement is reached - and I have yet to see one that is not a compromise, meaning not exactly what you as an uninterested party would call reasonable.

Unloading such a harsh tone on Codemasters is not fair. Simply put.

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