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AI difficultly

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From track to track you have to change the difficulty and for practice sessions you have to turn it down a bit to get perfects on the objectives. Now in my second race on my team on 104 difficulty I’ve got myself a 7th

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Posted (edited)

I havnt found the need to change difficulty. The practice programmes I think are harder this year as I am not getting as many purples as I used to. Changing the difficulty for practice just so you can get purple on practice programmes is kinda defeating the realism no? Surely better to practice, work on your set up? Some tracks you will be Naturally be good at some you will struggle at. I think it’s more natural to just leave the difficulty as it is. 

Edited by johnboy83
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Posted (edited)

I'm the only one also changing the difficulty between qualy and race? I'm using 101 qualy and 105 race to keep it "realistic" over the weekend. I do it both on f1 and f2 races

Edited by Berseker511

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Posted (edited)

The formula 1 games have always confused me. When you think you found the right difficulty setting, the next track will show you it's not. Codies keep saying it has to do with the user gradually improving but in 2019 I remember changing the difficulty on the same tracks in the second season as the difficulty does not remain consistent throughout the seasons and yes quali and race have a difficulty gap but now it has also creeped into practice Basically you have to change the difficulty now between all 3.

I guess it must be a difficult to solve problem as it is something that has been in the game since years. But I'm sure one day someone at codemasters will say at a meeting "I found the solution". 

Edited by BelgiumDude

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This was a problem last year too.

Easiest way to tell is the qualifying sim. Look at the expected pole time and look what actually comes out in the qualifying session. There's massive differences. The difficulty was changed notably though from 1.01 to 1.02 on xbox though but the practice 'bug' is still there. It's still significantly scaled up on what actually happens and the objectives for all the practice programs too. If you can do the practice programs with purples, it's likely WAY too easy in the race. We are talking about winning or at least a podium with a Williams easy. 

Also, some tracks are notorious for the AI being 'better' than others and it's nothing to do with player skill or the player getting better. The consensus on the most part does seem to be there, or at least it used to be.

The way I've figured it out is where I think the car should be and use qualifying 1 to figure out the difficulty correctly. For example my team car is 10th only just behind Alfa Romeo in 9th. If I'm qualifying 7th to 12th, something is wrong. Practice 3 also helps, I usually get the fastest time no matter what (I do my quali test there unless weather is bad and because of the 'bug' I lower the difficulty) and I can tell by the gap whether I'll need to adjust the difficulty. Some of it is down to the player sure, but as I said, I'm pretty sure we could get a good consensus on which tracks the AI is strong and weak on. For example Canada the AI was notoriously weak on for a few years while at Bahrain the AI at maximum difficulty was doing better or very close to world record times. Regardless of how strong you think the AI should be or max out at, there's no denying it's extremely inconsistent. 

This even extends to some parts of the track. For example, the AI is really weak in the last chicane in Canada near the wall of champions, however it gets a speed boost (don't know what else to call it) when entering sector 2. This was definitely true last year and in my race this year seemed true as well and last year I compared other players sector times relative to that of the AI and always, slower second sectors, much faster third sectors. 

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In f1 2018 I played on AI 100, for 2019 I had to lower it to 95. This year I am still playing around with the different levels, but 95 seems okay. On 90 I managed to finish 10th in the first my team race while mick Schumacher finished 19th, this really hurt immersion, and on 100 I was way off the pace. AI is stronger depending on the track, Bahrain they are faster now. Training sim is good, apart from Qualifying sim which has unrealistic expectations, like I need to go 1,5 sec faster than I usually do or I finish 20th but in actual qualifying the time is good enough for 15th

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6 hours ago, Berseker511 said:

I'm the only one also changing the difficulty between qualy and race? I'm using 101 qualy and 105 race to keep it "realistic" over the weekend. I do it both on f1 and f2 races

Yh I have to as well 

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To be fair you shouldn't really be getting purple's on everything anyway otherwise the game would be too easy?!

Melbourne and Bahrain AI difficulty seemed in synch with another - Vietnam not so much but then again it's a new circuit so plenty to learn.

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14 minutes ago, Turtlemoose said:

To be fair you shouldn't really be getting purple's on everything anyway otherwise the game would be too easy?!

Melbourne and Bahrain AI difficulty seemed in synch with another - Vietnam not so much but then again it's a new circuit so plenty to learn.

I don't understand why you shouldn't get purple every time? It should be a benchmark. If you struggle but manage to get purple you are on par with expectations, ik you achieve it easily it's too easy difficulty and if you can't get purple it's too hard difficulty. 

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I think you a should be able to get green and the occasional purple if you have the Difficulty right.

Purple is exceeding expectations, so If you are getting this regularly it suggests to me your difficulty is too low.

This probably explains why people think practice is too hard. Practice is practice, adjust your expectations not the difficulty.

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11 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

I don't understand why you shouldn't get purple every time? It should be a benchmark. If you struggle but manage to get purple you are on par with expectations, ik you achieve it easily it's too easy difficulty and if you can't get purple it's too hard difficulty. 

I thought green was the expected benchmark and purple is exceeding? 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Turtlemoose said:

I thought green was the expected benchmark and purple is exceeding? 

Well I'm sorry if I wanna be Hamilton in this game and you people Bottas. I hope you slow down for me when you see me in your mirror in multiplayer :classic_cool:

Edited by BelgiumDude
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18 hours ago, Peachrocks said:

Some of it is down to the player sure, but as I said, I'm pretty sure we could get a good consensus on which tracks the AI is strong and weak on. For example Canada the AI was notoriously weak on for a few years while at Bahrain the AI at maximum difficulty was doing better or very close to world record times. 

Now I’ve seen so many people in recent years mention how Bahrain difficulty was much high then a lot of other tracks. I really love Bahrain and is one of my favourite tracks, and can usually get my car up the grid much higher than I should compare to my performances on other tracks that were ‘notoriously easy’ and I’m no slouch in Montreal... My difficulty remains constant through practice quali and race for the whole season too, none of this swapping it between tracks and sessions so I can look better. Ok fine I’m not racing at 110 AI and I can’t do Bahrain world records but what difficulty you have it on shouldn’t change the ‘imbalance’ of difficulty between tracks providing its kept the same.

could it actually be that some tracks actually, whether people realise it or not, just don’t suit them so they are just not as good as they are on other circuits?

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Problem is that most report the same tracks as being too difficult. Like Bahrain being more difficult or China being way more easy. So it's weird that most people that have this problem struggle with the same tracks.

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3 hours ago, BelgiumDude said:

Problem is that most report the same tracks as being too difficult. Like Bahrain being more difficult or China being way more easy. So it's weird that most people that have this problem struggle with the same tracks.

Yes but how representative is the sample? “Most” seems to be a few people from what i can see.

I also find Bahrain one of the easier tracks to do well against the AI, and I actually find Canada one of the harder ones! 
 

To my mind there is no question that the imbalance people experience between tracks coms down to how well they do at that track, and there is enough variation that it must be to do with driving style and preference.

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1 minute ago, kalamazoo123 said:

Yes but how representative is the sample? “Most” seems to be a few people from what i can see.

I also find Bahrain one of the easier tracks to do well against the AI, and I actually find Canada one of the harder ones! 
 

To my mind there is no question that the imbalance people experience between tracks coms down to how well they do at that track, and there is enough variation that it must be to do with driving style and preference.

On this game Bahrain is easy against the AI

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24 minutes ago, kalamazoo123 said:

Yes but how representative is the sample? “Most” seems to be a few people from what i can see.

I also find Bahrain one of the easier tracks to do well against the AI, and I actually find Canada one of the harder ones! 
 

To my mind there is no question that the imbalance people experience between tracks coms down to how well they do at that track, and there is enough variation that it must be to do with driving style and preference.

Exactly this! I'm varied through the first third of the calendar, decent through the middle and then absolute garbage at the back end (bar Interlagos).

Also, people tend to race their favourite tracks or tracks they're good at online / in Grand Prix mode. You make yourself better at the tracks you're already good at and neglect the ones you're not.

For this reason, I will never be less than 2 seconds off the pace at Sazuka. 😂

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, kalamazoo123 said:

Yes but how representative is the sample? “Most” seems to be a few people from what i can see.

I also find Bahrain one of the easier tracks to do well against the AI, and I actually find Canada one of the harder ones! 
 

To my mind there is no question that the imbalance people experience between tracks coms down to how well they do at that track, and there is enough variation that it must be to do with driving style and preference.

The sample has become bigger and bigger over the years. This debate has been going on for years. When I say "most" I say most people that talked about the AI difficulty gap. Sure there will be reader bias but you also hear it from the Youtube F1 influencers. The people that gain the most by saying only nice things about the game even mention this.

The sample is bigger than the few reports you read now in the forum section of 2020 only few days after release. I can imagine that it is true that I have to fiddle with settings because I am better at one track than another track. But there are ways to fix this. If the game monitors my weak tracks and scales them in the following seasons I wouldn't have to fiddle all the time. If I knew the game would adjust the difficulty settings for a track in the future I wouldn't start to fiddle in the first place and take my bad results in my first season. You could also use 1st practice to let the game determine the AI difficulty. There are ways to fix this problem for once and for all.  There is always next year 

With all the fiddling you have to do now you end up with really skewed up results because when you notice you are in 8th place whilst you should be 16th or lower, why not take that good result, still a lot of races ahead. I start fiddling because I know I will never get that much better on that track to beat the AI. At least if I also use a part of my day to sleep in real life :classic_happy:

Edited by BelgiumDude
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10 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

The sample has become bigger and bigger over the years. This debate has been going on for years. When I say "most" I say most people that talked about the AI difficulty gap. Sure there will be reader bias but you also hear it from the Youtube F1 influencers. The people that gain the most by saying only nice things about the game even mention this.

The sample is bigger than the few reports you read now in the forum section of 2020 only few days after release. I can imagine that it is true that I have to fiddle with settings because I am better at one track than another track. But there are ways to fix this. If the game monitors my weak tracks and scales them in the following seasons I wouldn't have to fiddle all the time. If I knew the game would adjust the difficulty settings for a track in the future I wouldn't start to fiddle in the first place and take my bad results in my first season. You could also use 1st practice to let the game determine the AI difficulty. There are ways to fix this problem for once and for all.  There is always next year 

With all the fiddling you have to do now you end up with really skewed up results because when you notice you are in 8th place whilst you should be 16th or lower, why not take that good result, still a lot of races ahead. I start fiddling because I know I will never get that much better on that track to beat the AI. At least if I also use a part of my day to sleep in real life :classic_happy:

It's a good idea for the game to track and adjust difficulty bases on tracks. Didn't the driver academy in 1 game kind of do this and give you or set your difficulty depending on how you did? It would be similar but of course per track.

 

Could even give you a mini game type thing before the season starts which covers all types of tracks that you complete so it can get a gist of what difficulty you should be playing at them - if it could be done. 

 

Like the idea though BD!

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, martbloke said:

It's a good idea for the game to track and adjust difficulty bases on tracks. Didn't the driver academy in 1 game kind of do this and give you or set your difficulty depending on how you did? It would be similar but of course per track.

 

Could even give you a mini game type thing before the season starts which covers all types of tracks that you complete so it can get a gist of what difficulty you should be playing at them - if it could be done. 

 

Like the idea though BD!

But why is this. Everyone wants this game to be as realistic as possible. IRL Unless you are merc, tracks suit cars better than others and you will see for example a Haas, doing really well on one circuit, and the next race they are no where. I think being good and some tracks and not at others adds to the realism so you just have to work harder at the tracks you struggle with. I was terrible at vietnam and it’s probably one of my least favourite tracks but I’ve put the laps in and I can just about scrape Q3. Without the effort I was 2-3 seconds of the last placed car. 

Edited by johnboy83
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8 hours ago, johnboy83 said:

Now I’ve seen so many people in recent years mention how Bahrain difficulty was much high then a lot of other tracks. I really love Bahrain and is one of my favourite tracks, and can usually get my car up the grid much higher than I should compare to my performances on other tracks that were ‘notoriously easy’ and I’m no slouch in Montreal... My difficulty remains constant through practice quali and race for the whole season too, none of this swapping it between tracks and sessions so I can look better. Ok fine I’m not racing at 110 AI and I can’t do Bahrain world records but what difficulty you have it on shouldn’t change the ‘imbalance’ of difficulty between tracks providing its kept the same.

could it actually be that some tracks actually, whether people realise it or not, just don’t suit them so they are just not as good as they are on other circuits?

The simplest way to compare whether the AI is better or whether players are worse on given tracks is to compare to the times being done by the actual best players. I haven't done this in a while and sometimes it's hard to gauge 

Also keep in mind, Canada's weak AI is about 3-4 years ago now and Bahrain's world record close AI was 2 years ago. This isn't true anymore. I mean in my opinion the AI is still stronger at Bahrain then at Canada but it's not the massive chasm it once was and I can easily see how one might struggle on one track and do well at another even if my results are the opposite.  

Also, I don't swap it to look better. On the contrary I kinda hate getting strong results through the difficulty being too weak, I tend to make it 'harder' just to be sure and even then, I'll still get it wrong sometimes or get an occasion ridiculous result due to the AI blundering strategy with the safety car and/or wet weather. In any case the reason I swap it is so that I'm not winning races and getting podiums in one race in a bottom tier car, and being well behind my team mate at another. 

Whether this is down to me or the AI I can't be sure without comparing to actual data, but it used to be that there was a definite consensus on which tracks the AI was strong on. This might no longer be true.  However as I said, it wouldn't be hard to figure out exactly which tracks the AI is strong and weak at for real, rather than our subjective strengths and weaknesses. 

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46 minutes ago, johnboy83 said:

But why is this. Everyone wants this game to be as realistic as possible. IRL Unless you are merc, tracks suit cars better than others and you will see for example a Haas, doing really well on one circuit, and the next race they are no where. I think being good and some tracks and not at others adds to the realism so you just have to work harder at the tracks you struggle with. I was terrible at vietnam and it’s probably one of my least favourite tracks but I’ve put the laps in and I can just about scrape Q3. Without the effort I was 2-3 seconds of the last placed car. 

But that's the entire problem if you are driving for Mercedes you will still end up at the back of the grid in Quali whilst you were on pole on the previous circuit.

Now I'm the boss of a team. Before I could blame the team that they were not like the real life Mercedes. But now I am a team owner/driver. I want my team to be up there like the real life Mercedes and have a consistent car for me on every track.

There is too much fiddling going on behind the scenes of virtual F1. This has to be stopped 😂

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Posted (edited)

At the moment I feel like AI balance has also been improved. In F1 2019 I was struggling a lot to match with AI level in Baku or on Hungaroring without any setup, whilst on Silverstone I was very fast. Until now, I have only completed some qualifying sessions, but it seems like my performence is very similar on these circuits, if I'm not even a little bit slower on Silverstone. 

Edited by Simonodef

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6 hours ago, johnboy83 said:

But why is this. Everyone wants this game to be as realistic as possible. IRL Unless you are merc, tracks suit cars better than others and you will see for example a Haas, doing really well on one circuit, and the next race they are no where. I think being good and some tracks and not at others adds to the realism so you just have to work harder at the tracks you struggle with. I was terrible at vietnam and it’s probably one of my least favourite tracks but I’ve put the laps in and I can just about scrape Q3. Without the effort I was 2-3 seconds of the last placed car. 

I get what you are saying and that is fine to have your car being better or worse at different GPs but it's the AI that needs this balancing.

 

The AI (your teammate included) is not always balanced from track to track. You could be a tenth or 2 up or down from your teammate at 1 track which means your difficulty set is correct but then go to another track that you believe you are not bad at and you could be a second off your teammate. That's nothing to do with your car not being great with the track, that's the AI being far superior on that track on the difficulty selected which is proven by your teammate being far superior to you in the same car and all other AI being further ahead than what was seen in the previous race. That's what's being said here.

 

Yes a little can be your driving style on the track and also not having the best setup but a lot to do with AI balancing from track to track. It's never going to be a perfect system where 1 difficulty level is perfect for you throughout the season and this year's game I believe does better but could still be improved.

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Its hard to compare track to track if you are on My Team or driver career as the cars degrade track to track with different components wearing at different rates and components being changed by different drivers and different times.

You would have to go on grand prix mode every single time, do one shot qualifying a few times to see if you are in the right area for AI difficultly. 

I also find they race worse then they qualify so I need to up the AI level about 5 points when going in to the race.  

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