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ABS to powerful - adjustment urgently needed

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1. A detailed description of the problem. Please enter all error codes here.

ABS on is far too powerful
It should be of help not to be as fast or faster than drivers without ABS without much effort

ABS on should be slowed down by 3 tenths per lap.

I'm in different leagues and people are complaining massively.

2. Which version of the game you are using (appears on the home screen in the lower left corner of the screen)

1.04

3. Game mode?

Time Trail, online lobbies

4. What are your replication numbers? There are minimal test attempts
4. Please also add EXACT replication steps so we can try.

Talked to drivers, compared TimeTrail lists,
Tested even with ABS (otherwise drive without)

5. What troubleshooting have you tried? Please always try to fix the problem

to be faster with ABS and talked to other fast drivers to test out
Most say ABS on is faster! Which cannot be.

6. Which peripherals do you use (gamepad, bike manufacturer & model etc.)

Fanatec DD, other guys have the CSL Elite

7. Any screenshots or videos of the problem? If the video is long, please provide a timestamp when the problem occurs.

Could only show TT screen shots

  • Agree 7

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I would say that instead of nerfing the ABS there should be a setting for the host to forbid using ABS assist for multiplayer.

If you mix people using manual modes with people using assists it automatically leads to imbalances. So either everyone plays with ABS or no one. But don't mix. Same rule as for every game that have certain assist features to make a game more accessible.

 

Also to say "it can't be faster" is wrong. ABS like most assists totally can be faster. You can't lock up because the system detects and counters it... hence you can push harder than you could normally. There are reasons for why it is forbidden in real life F1. Because most electronic/computer assisted stuff has reaction times beyond that of human beings. Just like automatic transmissions perform better than manual ones for the same reason even if hardcore manual users have been arguing for decades that manual is better. They are wrong.

Edited by MeduSalem
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Using ABS may be easier, but using it will definitely not make you faster. When you have ABS turned on you can't brake as late as without using ABS. The less assists you use, the faster you can go, that is why top times are occupied by drivers that don't use any assists.

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Well. As MeduSalem says, in real life ABS would improve your laptimes a lot. It's quite logical really, you CAN break later and harder as well as further into the corner while still having grip to steer. As also mentioned, ABS was banned primarily because it made driving to easy, it took away a lot of the skill needed but there were probably other reasons as well. So yes, in reality ABS will make you faster, a lot faster even.

However. I do agree that ingame mastering driving without assists should be premiered since that's how the real F1 is. Ingame it shouldn't be faster, but then again, it depends a lot on the driver skills. Some drivers won't get faster without ABS than with while others will as it was in F1 2019. I haven't tried driving with ABS in this version of the game and I'm not planning to either since I want the experience to be as close as possible to real F1.

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1 hour ago, WhiteStormSK said:

Using ABS may be easier, but using it will definitely not make you faster. When you have ABS turned on you can't brake as late as without using ABS. The less assists you use, the faster you can go, that is why top times are occupied by drivers that don't use any assists.

That isn't correct. Currently, lot of the fastest times are driven with assists (most activate is ABS)

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2 minutes ago, ReMa25 said:

That isn't correct. Currently, lot of the fastest times are driven with assists (most activate is ABS)

I think, the "normal" driver should also be faster, while using no ABS, not only the "Pros".

Ohterwise you have no motivation to drive without it. 

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It would be helpful if CM investigates the problem.
The fact is,
- for some, ABS is as fast as without (which shouldn't be)
- for the others, ABS is faster (which shouldn't be)
- for a few people, ABS is slightly faster (which is far too little)

ABS on should be at least 3 tenths slower for every driver
There has to be a noticeable progress when you turn ABS off.

Basically it is a small adjustment for CM, which is of great importance.

I ask for an investigation and adjustment. thanks

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I think ABS off is much easier to handle in F1 2020 compared to last years game and I actually don't care anymore, if someone with ABS on is faster. I think the leagues have to deal with the problem themselves. Lillhelm and myself race in the same league as we have this discussion for years now. You either divided the series in "Non"-Assist and Assist leagues then you might lose some drivers or you leave it as it is. For now, we decided to leave it as it is because we think it's still a hobby and everyone should be able to race how the want to. 

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It was also easy without ABS in 2019.
Still, it can't be that fast guys drive with ABS because it is equally fast and even easier.

How to handle leagues does not matter and has nothing to do with the basic topic.

They are driving aids, not aids to be quick.

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Yeah it seems like ABS is way to go in this game which is most certainly disturbing. Assists should help people who doesn't know how to drive without them however it shouldn't make fast guys even faster. In the game no assists should ALWAYS be faster than with assists on. If you check the photo below from Zandvoort TT, you may notice the pattern of the fastest times. On that photo there is only one guy without assists and he is probably the fastest guy (at least top3) in PS4 currently without assists. The photo was taken straight after patch 1.04 came to PS4.

So like in F1 2019, ABS should make braking distances longer. Now it doesn't do that. Currently you can actually apply higher braking force through it as you don't need to trail brake at the end of braking phase. Also with ABS you can even turn the car without getting massive understeer which you get when locking up. Think about Vietnam turn 1 or Vietnam hairpin, you really need to lift the brakes before turning as those are slow speed corners, however with abs you can start turning at the same time when trying to hit that apex. This makes braking distances longer for ABS off. Does that seem fair or even reasonable? For sure no.

Image

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Even though I'm seeing that abs is the smart way to go I refuse to go back I'm down to just auto gears and corner only line. I chose to strip away assists for the first time this year and im not as fast as yet but with more practice I feel I could surpass previous years with some more time and patience.

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Never really understood the point of this argument.

People want realism or a reward for using less assists and yet in most cases opt to race sat on top of an engine to give a better view of apex's and corner exits which is the biggest OP assist of them all compared to say cockpit view.

 

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13 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Never really understood the point of this argument.

People want realism or a reward for using less assists and yet in most cases opt to race sat on top of an engine to give a better view of apex's and corner exits which is the biggest OP assist of them all compared to say cockpit view.

 

That is correct, but has nothing to do with the topic.

ABS is strong OP. The braking distance with ABS should be much longer.

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I'd like to see different TT leaderboards for no assists and with (any) assists. 

Apparently George Russell used ABS in the 2019 races, where he ended up outclassing everyone else. 

Edited by Ultra3142
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I've never tried ABS and never will. I'm curious though: if you are using ABS and you stomp on the brakes and start turning, is the car still deaccelerating at 100%?

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14 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Never really understood the point of this argument.

People want realism or a reward for using less assists and yet in most cases opt to race sat on top of an engine to give a better view of apex's and corner exits which is the biggest OP assist of them all compared to say cockpit view.

 

Exactly why I drive in cockpit cam only. Don't get any fulfillment from having worked hard to get to the point where I can drive with all the assists off like real F1, but then can switch to magic view and gain laptime.... what's the point? Might as well turn all the assists back on lol

 

On the subject of ABS. In this game I already find the braking WAY TO EASY with ABS off. Unless you do something really stupid you basically can't lock up. You can run 100% brake pressure, which is the default value now for gods sake!, and 50 brake balance with ZERO rear locking. I'm not totally against the changes as it helps those of us who couldn't or wouldn't exploit the old braking system, by running it unrealistically rearward or with ridiculous pressure settings, to stay competitive. Personally I'm for as much realism as possible. So ABS SHOULD make you faster by a small degree. But I also have pushed for years now for a realistic brake setup where running the brake bias more forward decreases braking distances with the increased risk of front lockups. There's a reason the real drivers can be seen moving the bias forward when coming up to a big high-speed braking point. Ironically on f1 2019 this was actually the case on many tracks, I tested it thoroughly. However the overall gain by going crazily rearward was often far more powerful for all the other braking zones, bar the 1 or maybe 2 BIG stops on the track.

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2 hours ago, LILLHELM said:

@BarryBL

when will there be a review and adjustment?

Hopefully never because I dislike the thought of artificially making things slower for casual players using assists (which is most definitely the majority of players) just because some people who want ultra realism (who are definitely the minority) can't take a hit to their ego that an automatic system is at least equally fast than them.

Instead they should split the time trial leaderboards, leagues etc into using Assists and using No Assists. Call it Pro league if it pleases your ego.

That is the most proper action that could be taken when it comes to that and then no nerfs would be necessary and everyone could be happy.

Edited by MeduSalem
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7 hours ago, MeduSalem said:

Hopefully never because I dislike the thought of artificially making things slower for casual players using assists (which is most definitely the majority of players) just because some people who want ultra realism (who are definitely the minority) can't take a hit to their ego that an automatic system is at least equally fast than them.

Instead they should split the time trial leaderboards, leagues etc into using Assists and using No Assists. Call it Pro league if it pleases your ego.

That is the most proper action that could be taken when it comes to that and then no nerfs would be necessary and everyone could be happy.

It’s not about making casual players slower. It’s about to stop competitive players from exploiting stupidly over powered assist. Also casual players shouldn’t care if ABS is nerfed, couple of tenths doesn’t make a difference when competing against AI as you can lower the level of it. However couple of tenths does make a HUGE difference when league racing or doing TT laps.
 

Assists should be for players who don’t know how to drive without them. Now people who know how to drive without assists decide to use ABS because it’s too good. In game, assists should always make player slower - even the racing line (which is still OP as it has been couple of years now). Even the name ”assists” reffers as something for noobs. Driving the game with assists should be same as driving a bike with training wheels (only to be used until you learn the real thing).

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6 hours ago, Arttu1202 said:

It’s not about making casual players slower. It’s about to stop competitive players from exploiting stupidly over powered assist. Also casual players shouldn’t care if ABS is nerfed, couple of tenths doesn’t make a difference when competing against AI as you can lower the level of it. However couple of tenths does make a HUGE difference when league racing or doing TT laps.
 

Assists should be for players who don’t know how to drive without them. Now people who know how to drive without assists decide to use ABS because it’s too good. In game, assists should always make player slower - even the racing line (which is still OP as it has been couple of years now). Even the name ”assists” reffers as something for noobs. Driving the game with assists should be same as driving a bike with training wheels (only to be used until you learn the real thing).

There are people with disabilities that lack the physical ability to threshold brake properly. Even iRacing allows driver aids for those who are physically impaired. There's nothing "noobish" about them - this attitude is frankly what makes sim racing hard to get into for some.

If it's faster than playing without ABS, that's another thing, but it should at least be able to make a level playing field for everyone.

Edited by amphobius
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1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

Is it not possible for leagues to configure lobbies so that no assists can be used?

yes,  this is possible 

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I’d say ABS and even medium TC is OP again. Was running a few laps in wet conditions earlier with no assists and was slow compared to the AI. Put ABS and medium TC on and suddenly I’m back in the running. 

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