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ABS to powerful - adjustment urgently needed

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On 7/11/2020 at 2:22 AM, LILLHELM said:

It would be helpful if CM investigates the problem.
The fact is,
- for some, ABS is as fast as without (which shouldn't be)
- for the others, ABS is faster (which shouldn't be)
- for a few people, ABS is slightly faster (which is far too little)

ABS on should be at least 3 tenths slower for every driver
There has to be a noticeable progress when you turn ABS off.

Basically it is a small adjustment for CM, which is of great importance.

I ask for an investigation and adjustment. thanks

There is no reason you have to be slower with ABS on, no idea why you would think that.  ABS only activates if you lock the wheels up.  If you're max braking to the point just before lock up, it doesn't matter if you have ABS on or off, your braking force is the same and the wheels aren't locking up either way.

Edited by anthonyd5189
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On 7/16/2020 at 11:45 PM, Arttu1202 said:

Yeah it's possible for leagues to decide to if they allow ABS or not. But the problem is that some people really need it in smaller leagues and some people just use it to gain advantage. Let's say there is some small league with 1 or 2 divisions. Obviously they want to allow ABS as they don't want to lose drivers. However these few guys get some extra pace from this assist, which leads to the point where everyone is using it in the end. That's why assists can't be better than assists off. 

With ranked lobbies I guess all assists are allowed. I don't really play these so I don't know for sure. 

On the last game in those Esport qualification events they reduced total score by x% based on assists used, it was pretty decent way. However this year it probably needs bigger % cut if ABS is used. I think they used similar system in weekly events also, hopefully they still do that on this game.

TT filter would be good thing, also they should start mentioning there if line is used (even that telemetry line from the ghost time). Also wheel/pad filter/mention would be good add. Anyway all improvements are welcome to TT, it has been pretty much same for a long time. Filters and equal cars (to gp mode as well) would be a great thing to have.

Spot on.

It is a big problem in mixed leagues where abs is allowed because some need the abs assist and where drivers try to be as fast as possible.

Like Jarno Opmeer, some of our best drivers switch from not using the assist for years to using it again because they would have a disadvantage otherwise.

It is hard to set our league settings to "no assists allowed". We are all friends and i it would upset many that need the assist.

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35 minutes ago, iosis said:

Spot on.

It is a big problem in mixed leagues where abs is allowed because some need the abs assist and where drivers try to be as fast as possible.

Like Jarno Opmeer, some of our best drivers switch from not using the assist for years to using it again because they would have a disadvantage otherwise.

It is hard to set our league settings to "no assists allowed". We are all friends and i it would upset many that need the assist.

Interesting with Jarno. Do you have a link for that?

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16 hours ago, anthonyd5189 said:

There is no reason you have to be slower with ABS on, no idea why you would think that.  ABS only activates if you lock the wheels up.  If you're max braking to the point just before lock up, it doesn't matter if you have ABS on or off, your braking force is the same and the wheels aren't locking up either way.

Of course ABS should be slower considering it's an assists. In real life Formula 1 cars wouldn't have ABS so there shouldn't be that in the game either. However there is ABS on the game, therefore it should be slower than ABS off. On the last game braking distances were longer for ABS and if you missed your braking point then you understeered to narnia. However in this game braking distances are actually shorter as you can apply maximum pressure longer compared to ABS off. Also you can make the corner easily instead of understeering as you would do with ABS off when locking up. 

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On 7/17/2020 at 2:15 PM, BarryBL said:

On issues like "Insert thing here is OP" threads we always proceed with extreme caution. We had 9 months of pad vs wheel debates, even though we investigated TT times across all methods of driving, and in fact, pad and wheel are balanced (just with different strengths and weaknesses)

I'm fortunate enough to have a TT leaderboard you all see, and a friends PC leaderboard which is a large proportion of the hardcore players on that platform. The known elite players are, and always have been, running with ABS off. Until I get reliable feedback from them with concrete evidence (which im sure they'd happily provide if they thought something was wrong), I feel the assist works fine and is no advantange.

Under the discussion in this thread, running TC Medium and ABS On is alledgely hugely overpowed. I can assure you its not, as they are my normal settings for league racing (I dont get the time these days to practice on-track, and my right foot is rather heavy 😛 ). I run midfield in the forum championships and always have, regardless of settings changes. 

Outright pace is outright pace for me. Removing assists makes you quicker, but its harder. Makes sense. Time vs effort. I don't get a lot of time to practice racing pace and long run compared to our top league guys, so I'm in the midfield. I think thats fair enough - (I like the midfield scrap btw, drives me mad but a good fight anywhere is my favourite thing in racing)

@BarryBL I'm sorry but how does CM not see the issue here. This sort of thing needs to be reverted back to F1 2019 where the players with no assists were actually rewarded. Even if pro players are complaining about it then you should know it's an issue. I could do tests myself and gain about 0.3-0.4 tenths around one sector while having ABS on. To me, it's embarrassing to see an assist to be so abusive that casuals can be way faster than the more experienced player that uses fewer assists. At the end of the day, this issue needs to be addressed urgently. 

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4 hours ago, InfernoLewis said:

@BarryBL I'm sorry but how does CM not see the issue here. This sort of thing needs to be reverted back to F1 2019 where the players with no assists were actually rewarded. Even if pro players are complaining about it then you should know it's an issue. I could do tests myself and gain about 0.3-0.4 tenths around one sector while having ABS on. To me, it's embarrassing to see an assist to be so abusive that casuals can be way faster than the more experienced player that uses fewer assists. At the end of the day, this issue needs to be addressed urgently. 

If you're braking right to the limit and not locking up your tires with ABS off it's going to be faster than having ABS on and having it activate while braking.  Activated ABS will increase braking distance over "proper" braking.

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On 7/11/2020 at 11:02 AM, LILLHELM said:

It was also easy without ABS in 2019.
Still, it can't be that fast guys drive with ABS because it is equally fast and even easier.

How to handle leagues does not matter and has nothing to do with the basic topic.

They are driving aids, not aids to be quick.

totally agree to all your words man . 

even without abs u break less but harder , so all people who drive like 58 Breakbires and 100 Pressure should have huge problems with the temps using ABS but they dont have actually. 

ABS on is way to good this year , i would say it improved the same way like ABS OFF, but i agree if you put it off and drive it well you should be faster than someone who has turned it on, otherwise it makes no sense to turn it off guys. its the same like TC everyone who can handle TC OFF likes to have that advantage in pulling away getting out of the corner.

Same should be for ABS off , but it isn't, you can break and turn , and still breaking, so it just can be faster, there should be some regulations! 

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7 hours ago, InfernoLewis said:

To me, it's embarrassing to see an assist to be so abusive that casuals can be way faster than the more experienced player that uses fewer assists.

Players setting top times with ABS on are not by any stretch 'casuals' as it still takes a huge amount of skill, time and effort. I'm saying this as someone who couldn't get anywhere near what the top 'assisted' players are achieving!

This is not to say I don't rate those who set the top times with no assists as the top drivers - I absolutely do.

I think Codemasters are in a very tricky position here. What some are calling for is a patch that will make the majority of drivers slower which I'd have thought risks a pretty serious backlash and bad publicity.

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he also tested it in his stream, but i cant find it anymore.

we changed our league 1 to no assists yesterday , due to the unbalanced assists...

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ABS is an assist. Assists are meant to help you play the game, nothing more. It shouldn’t be faster. No assists in theory should be fastest way to play as that’s the way an F1 car should be driven. In a competitive game it should be equal opportunities, you can’t have an assists that’s an inherently faster way to play. When you have the entire top 10 in time trial all ABS that should be enough to see you have an issue. With the PAD vs Wheel debate I can make up that time if I learn tracks but abs is impossible as every corner you gain time through being able to brake later and harder all the time gaining a few tenths. It should not be faster. It’s demoralising in a league racing environment to lose time in quali and the face and knowing they run abs and knowing I can’t catch or go faster as I’m on the limit. As I said pad vs wheel can make the time but if an assist is OP I can’t. 

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On 7/17/2020 at 3:18 PM, BarryBL said:

"Drive easily" is a little harsh imo, I'm not THAT bad at the game. I'd say I'm pretty quick. But users enjoy the game differently, and can devote varying levels of time to it. 

From experience in racing games and this series, the players at the top run with no assists on for a reason. There's a distinct, and correct, advantage to running with less rather than more. But we also have to give an open playing field to users who don't have the time or availability to race. It's why you have assists in the first place.

It's just a case of acceptance of time vs effort. I'm very sure that, although I wouldn't be winning races in leagues, if I devoted time and energy into learning my natural pace without assists, I'd be at the top of the midfield and fighting for podiums. But, I can't, so I'm happy with racing for points and having fun. 

Like anything, if you want to be at the top of your performance level, its about putting in the practice. But the core use of ABS in the game has not changed from last year in terms of trade off. You are trading off ultimate performance for a more predictable stopping method.

Time vs effort is irrelevant when Time can’t beat ABS. We can only brake so late and to run ABS and brake later and harder is an unfair advantage in a competitive game. Some would say it’s cheating to use something  that gives you an advantage

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On 7/29/2020 at 3:00 PM, SlimboDude said:

Time vs effort is irrelevant when Time can’t beat ABS. We can only brake so late and to run ABS and brake later and harder is an unfair advantage in a competitive game. Some would say it’s cheating to use something  that gives you an advantage

It should be adjusted minimally!

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