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Seriously Codemasters?? Nonsense Micro-transactions and in-game currency in a fully priced game!

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5 minutes ago, ragequit1 said:

I suppose in internet slang it stands for "microtransactions"?

It is easier to type.

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10 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

What is MTX?

Microtransactions.

3 minutes ago, ragequit1 said:

I suppose in internet slang it stands for "microtransactions"?

You mean the industry standard terminology? Yes. Tx as an acronym for online transaction that goes way before EA shenanigans.

12 minutes ago, hippoSURF said:

The fact that it seems like they want to FORCE people to play modes/online that they may have no interest in just to "unlock" some cursory customization items or else they are going to need to part with excess REAL MONEY for them is the problem with MTX and Grindwalls is a problem.

I'm on Podium Pass lvl 8 playing My Team exclusively since Tuesday, as I wanted to do. Those are very strong words to describe an experience that is the polar opposite of what people like me have had so far, mate.

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40 minutes ago, marioho said:

Microtransactions.

You mean the industry standard terminology? Yes. Tx as an acronym for online transaction that goes way before EA shenanigans.

I'm on Podium Pass lvl 8 playing My Team exclusively since Tuesday, as I wanted to do. Those are very strong words to describe an experience that is the polar opposite of what people like me have had so far, mate.

Congratulations I suppose are in order for you big guy. 

 

It's not so much that the implementation is there currently as it is about the precedent sets. Who's to say that if people spend enough money on the cursory items that are behind a grindwall/paywall in any form that NEXT YEAR there won't be more behind them? 

 

If I remember correctly in F1 2018 NOTHING was behind a paywall/grindwall(well car developments but have behind a grindwall of sorts for several years and even that is becoming more involved all the time), then in F1 2019 there were customization items that were behind a paywall and others that were behind an online-only grindwall(competition points) So go ahead and keep telling people that it isn't necessary to PAY for things(or that they aren't being FORCED pay for anything because they don't HAVE to buy it) or that you can grind your way to everything through any game mode that you so choose, because when the highly impatient people or those who don't play 10 races a day or a whole season every week(or however much time it is that you invest in the game) shell out money for these cursory items(and they will I mean it's why MORE is behind a Pay/grindwall this year than last). You know full well that when Codemasters sees the money coming in that they will decide to put more behind these walls and it probably won't just be cosmetics. It's a slippery slope that results in the game becoming pay to win even in the single-player modes like Career or Team.

Edited by hippoSURF
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Interesting debate. I don't care about microtransactions or cosmetics at all, but I understand the concerns that some of you brought up, like @hippoSURF pointed out for instance.

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I have 27 hours so far in the game playing Myteam , I have unlocked the vip pass as i got the coins by buying the schumacher edition 

Up to level 13 with it now and no intention of buying pitcoins just to get extra bits and pieces which to me do not make the gameplay any better 

I bought the game and as far as i am concerned thats the end of me paying out until a newer version comes out 

I have seen how much of a ripoff EA make of games with their constant expansions and stuff pack of little content with The Sims . So codemasters with their pitcoins which are optional to buy but not needed to play the complete game doesn't bother me 

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2 minutes ago, ragequit1 said:

Interesting debate. I don't care about microtransactions or cosmetics at all, but I understand the concerns that some of you brought up, like @hippoSURF pointed out for instance.

Honestly, I don't even care too deeply about it myself(I don't mind spending a couple of bucks on a helmet and I rarely look at my avatar's race suit. That said, I think/know/have experienced a diminishing enjoyment of franchises that I once loved as the hurdled towards being pay to win games and don't wish to see another one of my favourites reach that end.

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11 minutes ago, hippoSURF said:

Congratulations I suppose are in order for you big guy. 

Can go on do without the "big guy" kind of sarcasm? Not that it bothers me, champ. It's just that people often find them distracting. 

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It's not so much that the implementation is there currently as it is about the precedent sets. Who's to say that if people spend enough money on the cursory items that are behind a grindwall/paywall in any form that NEXT YEAR there won't be more behind them? 

This "let's ban marijuana as it is a gateway to harmful drugs" is an argument I don't give that much credence to. If that is your gripe with the current Codemasters MTX model than I guess that is a win for us all? I mean, if their system is not bad, just have the potential to turn into something bad in the future then meh, I'd prefer to pick up a pitchfork when there comes something meaty to stab with. Not much a fan of this Don Quixote windmill thing.

Just as it has the potential to become something bad there is the possibility of it being kept fair or to be even improved to satisfied those that don't like grinding. Just as I can't guarantee that that will be the case, regardless of how much faith I have in Codemasters, conversely neither can you.

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So go ahead and keep telling people that it isn't necessary to PAY for things(or that they aren't being FORCED pay for anything because they don't HAVE to buy it) or that you can grind your way to everything through any game mode that you so choose

I'm only telling people what my experience has been so far and as much as I don't doubt you being telepathic I don't think you're in a position to invalidate my experience. Level 8 on Podium Pass, 4 complete GPs, not a dime (real or virtual) spent on the store yet and satisfied with my ever crescent collection of liveries and helmets. Went from an ok Aston Martin Jaguar-esque car to a "now that is an Aston Martin Jaguar-esque car".

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because when the highly impatient people or those who don't play 10 races a day or a whole season every week(or however much time it is that you invest in the game) [...]

An average of 0,67 GPs a day, since you seem to care about how much of their free time people spend gaming.

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shell out money for these cursory items(and they will I mean it's why MORE is behind a Pay/grindwall this year than last). You know full well that when Codemasters sees the money coming in that they will decide to put more behind these walls and it probably won't just be cosmetics. It's a slippery slope that results in the game becoming pay to win even in the single-player modes like Career or Team.

Care to tell me who will win the 2020 US elections too while you are at these yummy predictions?

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12 minutes ago, marioho said:

Can go on do without the "big guy" kind of sarcasm? Not that it bothers me, champ. It's just that people often find them distracting. 

This "let's ban marijuana as it is a gateway to harmful drugs" is an argument I don't give that much credence to. If that is your gripe with the current Codemasters MTX model than I guess that is a win for us all? I mean, if their system is not bad, just have the potential to turn into something bad in the future then meh, I'd prefer to pick up a pitchfork when there comes something meaty to stab with. Not much a fan of this Don Quixote windmill thing.

Just as it has the potential to become something bad there is the possibility of it being kept fair or to be even improved to satisfied those that don't like grinding. Just as I can't guarantee that that will be the case, regardless of how much faith I have in Codemasters, conversely neither can you.

I'm only telling people what my experience has been so far and as much as I don't doubt you being telepathic I don't think you're in a position to invalidate my experience. Level 8 on Podium Pass, 4 complete GPs, not a dime (real or virtual) spent on the store yet and satisfied with my ever crescent collection of liveries and helmets. Went from an ok Aston Martin Jaguar-esque car to a "now that is an Aston Martin Jaguar-esque car".

An average of 0,67 GPs a day, since you seem to care about how much of their free time people spend gaming.

Care to tell me who will win the 2020 US elections too while you are at these yummy predictions?

I would have said little guy but I figured you'd get mad.

 

It isn't a prediction per se as much as it is an informed hypothesis. This isn't the first instance of a video game franchise or developer gradually testing the waters of increasing their profits through microtransactions and it certainly won't be the last. Though as it pertains to the F1 franchise itself it should be noted F1 2018 had no microtransactions, F1 2019 had some microtransactions, and F1 2020 has more microtransactions again. If you don't see the pattern forming it isn't my fault. The truth of the matter is that people will undoubtedly shell out money for these cosmetic upgrades(hence why more is potentially behind a paywall this year than last. Since I assume(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this) that Codemasters is a for-profit company I fell it's safe to assume that if they make a good/decent profit from the level of microtransactions in the current game they would at the very least entertain the notion of increasing their profits through larger-scale microtransactions and guess what? The way to do that is to place more IMPORTANT upgrades and more cosmetic enhancements behind a paywall or an excruciating grindwall that encourages people to spend money on them instead in order to compete. I sincerely hope that if/when the F1 series of games becomes a pay to win title that you aren't one to complain or be frustrated by such a development.

 

Kanye frikkin' West will win the election in the US as he insists he is running. I don't honestly think that. I'm from Canada and we have our own issues to worry about.

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3 minutes ago, hippoSURF said:

I would have said little guy but I figured you'd get mad.

 

It isn't a prediction per se as much as it is an informed hypothesis. This isn't the first instance of a video game franchise or developer gradually testing the waters of increasing their profits through microtransactions and it certainly won't be the last. Though as it pertains to the F1 franchise itself it should be noted F1 2018 had no microtransactions, F1 2019 had some microtransactions, and F1 2020 has more microtransactions again. If you don't see the pattern forming it isn't my fault. The truth of the matter is that people will undoubtedly shell out money for these cosmetic upgrades(hence why more is potentially behind a paywall this year than last. Since I assume(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this) that Codemasters is a for-profit company I fell it's safe to assume that if they make a good/decent profit from the level of microtransactions in the current game they would at the very least entertain the notion of increasing their profits through larger-scale microtransactions and guess what? The way to do that is to place more IMPORTANT upgrades and more cosmetic enhancements behind a paywall or an excruciating grindwall that encourages people to spend money on them instead in order to compete. I sincerely hope that if/when the F1 series of games becomes a pay to win title that you aren't one to complain or be frustrated by such a development.

 

Kanye frikkin' West will win the election in the US as he insists he is running. I don't honestly think that. I'm from Canada and we have our own issues to worry about.

Do you mind if I drop the sarcasm then and proceed to be direct? Just not in the mood for internet jostling.

I think that is a valid hypothesis. Just as valid as saying that Codemasters will go the same route as Warframe, Monster Hunter, Path of Exile or even Overwatch. What is the point of heatly debating what it could turn out to be in the future when neither of us (and this include the whole community) can have an authoritative take on it?

Actually, let's expand that "us" to include Codemasters too. Seems clear that this is their first real dab on the MTX model and have yet to fully realize the scope and balance of it. 

F1 2019 is my first entry in the franchise. Even though I have an rough idea of how things went, care to answer this genuine question? Did F1 2018 > Fi 2019 have a comparable leap in content and features as that of F1 2019 > F1 2020? New game modes (My Team and the comeback of splitscreen), virtual HUD mirror, revamped drivers market, new handling model, revamped AI and so on.

What I mean. F1 2019 felt very sandboxy and the Career mode, though very enjoyable, didn't give you much other than progressing your car and jumping around teams. F1 2020 introduces new paths, not being the case of the constant rewash and repaint of FIFA and PES – and I've been playing both of those franchises for 22 years. 22 years without ever spending a dime on paid content, I shall add. Just base games, no deluxe bling bling editions.

It seems to me that Codemasters is reaching for a upper standard now. An extra revenue influx can be put to good use. Do they merit your faith? I'm in no position to say, mate. Sincerely, that's up to you. And I don't say that just to sound the likable white knight. I mean that because I am equally entrenched that no one has any business meddling on what companies I should or should not put my faith in. Faith, bro, this is faith. This is not fanboyism, this is not a cult, this is not a market ploy. And here I go back to my first and main point: we are in no position to tell what will come out of this MTX decision as it all comes down to this ethereal freaking thing: faith.

You think it will go sour? Yeah, could be. I think the opposite. When I look at the work Codemasters to do make F1 a immersive but still accessible simulation of F1, with all the good work they put into aspects ranging from the sound design to the handling model, yeah, I believe they deserve my faith. Whatever you do with yours is not my business.

So to get back to my even earlier point, can we please veer this discussion to what Podium Pass is and to what CM can do to improve it with their next updates and next games instead of this tiring witch-hunting marijuana-is-a-gateway-drug thing?

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3 hours ago, marioho said:
3 hours ago, marioho said:

Do you mind if I drop the sarcasm then and proceed to be direct? Just not in the mood for internet jostling.

I think that is a valid hypothesis. Just as valid as saying that Codemasters will go the same route as Warframe, Monster Hunter, Path of Exile or even Overwatch. What is the point of heatly debating what it could turn out to be in the future when neither of us (and this include the whole community) can have an authoritative take on it?

Actually, let's expand that "us" to include Codemasters too. Seems clear that this is their first real dab on the MTX model and have yet to fully realize the scope and balance of it. 

F1 2019 is my first entry in the franchise. Even though I have an rough idea of how things went, care to answer this genuine question? Did F1 2018 > Fi 2019 have a comparable leap in content and features as that of F1 2019 > F1 2020? New game modes (My Team and the comeback of splitscreen), virtual HUD mirror, revamped drivers market, new handling model, revamped AI and so on.

What I mean. F1 2019 felt very sandboxy and the Career mode, though very enjoyable, didn't give you much other than progressing your car and jumping around teams. F1 2020 introduces new paths, not being the case of the constant rewash and repaint of FIFA and PES – and I've been playing both of those franchises for 22 years. 22 years without ever spending a dime on paid content, I shall add. Just base games, no deluxe bling bling editions.

It seems to me that Codemasters is reaching for a upper standard now. An extra revenue influx can be put to good use. Do they merit your faith? I'm in no position to say, mate. Sincerely, that's up to you. And I don't say that just to sound the likable white knight. I mean that because I am equally entrenched that no one has any business meddling on what companies I should or should not put my faith in. Faith, bro, this is faith. This is not fanboyism, this is not a cult, this is not a market ploy. And here I go back to my first and main point: we are in no position to tell what will come out of this MTX decision as it all comes down to this ethereal freaking thing: faith.

You think it will go sour? Yeah, could be. I think the opposite. When I look at the work Codemasters to do make F1 a immersive but still accessible simulation of F1, with all the good work they put into aspects ranging from the sound design to the handling model, yeah, I believe they deserve my faith. Whatever you do with yours is not my business.

So to get back to my even earlier point, can we please veer this discussion to what Podium Pass is and to what CM can do to improve it with their next updates and next games instead of this tiring witch-hunting marijuana-is-a-gateway-drug thing?

From F1 2018 - F1 2019 the only difference in content was the minimal customization additions like race suits and gloves(they weren't selectable beforehand) multiplayer cars(and the associated liveries) though they were only for online play and the addition of F2. Beyond that, it was a spit shining of the previous entry in the series updated grid, cars, liveries. IMO the customization options beyond helmets(I've long believed that a helmet design tool would be a better direction to go or just go back to the 4o or so selectable but not "editable" helmets that they had in the PS3/XBOX 360 days. F1 2012(I think I bought it three separate times over the years) is still my favourite entry, I always loved driving at Valencia) were pointless as I don't play online and having a not as generic race suit in championships isn't a huge selling point for me. This year's game is the biggest leap I've seen in the franchise(been playing Codies F1 games since 2011 though my best friend did have EA's 2002 game) with how it presents the game and the overall experience. Last year's driver transfers and pseudo "story" mode were decent enough leaps in the right direction of adding a "soul" to the proceedings even if it did once again boil down to drive and develop at its core. I don't even have a particular issue with going the MTX route but I fear that like other franchises that have gone that direction it will become a play to win franchise and I'm very much of the belief that it shouldn't go that direction especially not now that there is a tangible "soul" (or depth if you prefer) to it beyond the aforementioned tired drive and develop model the games usually adheres to. The problem is that MTX is here and like other games/franchises now that it's here mean it isn't going away. If other game franchises and the industry at large are an indication then it's a matter of when not if it becomes just that.  

The EA NHL games have long been my vice in terms of yearly installment or spit shining game franchises and in some form or another, I've owned every entry in the series since it's inception. I'm also a pretty big mark for WWE(though I do buy the DLC for these) games though I did not purchase 2K20 so I get what you are saying with FIFA and the F1 series has felt very similar to that stale/stagnant nature of most yearly releases.

 

The practice of putting things that you don't NEED behind pay/grindwalls is a way of conditioning people the consumer that these "extra charges" are normal. It's actually quite effective to be honest because sure you don't need a different helmet but you may WANT one and that's when they hook you. They know that if you pay extra to avoid the grind for something superfluous you will pay to avoid the grind when it comes to something NECESSARY. 

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@hippoSURF see? I gave you a virtual thumbs up as there is not a single character I'd change in that post. It aligns neatly with what I think, please do not edit it to say that you've hooked up with my fat mommy as I wouldn't give a thumbs up for that – virtual or not.

In all seriousness, that's it. I guess our major gripe lies in what you believe will happen in the near future and what I believe will happen. 

The way MTX works is no mystery for any of us. That's post-modern capitalism or whatever, fabricated products for equally fabricated needs. We all take part on it, consumer and companies alike, and I believe it's up to us to play fair and to not exploit each other vulnerabilities. This surely can go both ways, but for now I don't see any exploitation coming from Codemasters side. 

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3 hours ago, marioho said:

@hippoSURF see? I gave you a virtual thumbs up as there is not a single character I'd change in that post. It aligns neatly with what I think, please do not edit it to say that you've hooked up with my fat mommy as I wouldn't give a thumbs up for that – virtual or not.

In all seriousness, that's it. I guess our major gripe lies in what you believe will happen in the near future and what I believe will happen. 

The way MTX works is no mystery for any of us. That's post-modern capitalism or whatever, fabricated products for equally fabricated needs. We all take part on it, consumer and companies alike, and I believe it's up to us to play fair and to not exploit each other vulnerabilities. This surely can go both ways, but for now I don't see any exploitation coming from Codemasters side. 

I'm prepared for it if/when it does happen anyway. Plus there is always the friendly confines of F1 2012 to fall back on. It is isn't exploitative it's the nature of the beast.

I would never say something like that about someone's mom unless it was the 100% honest truth. I also am not fishing for any semblance of virtual kudos.

 

Stay classy.

Edited by hippoSURF

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I don't think the 'slippery slope to a microtransaction (MTX) filled game future' argument is that strong, purely because we've seen how Codemasters have been very deliberate in introducing options for microtransactions.

We've had countless examples of big controversies over MTX over the last few years - EA's Star Wars Battlefront 2, NBA 2K series, etc. We've seen that any items that affect performance for online play receives a massive backlash and leads to really bad PR. So Codemasters surely will have learnt that lesson and know never to introduce anything where you can ‘pay to win’, especially in multiplayer.

Also, they clearly have been very careful about introducing MTX into the series. MTX like these have been around for quite a while now, yet they’ve only just introduced them into F1 over the last two years. That tells you that they are being very strategic in introducing them slowly and deliberately to not upset the player base and the balance of the series by dumping a load of MTX into the game.

Finally, everything is cosmetic and the Podium Pass allows you to earn enough so that you don’t ever have to pay for anything if you get the pre-order bonus. I got my 15,000 pitcoin for the pre-order bonus Schumacher edition, bought the VIP pass with 9,000 and have already got back up to 8,500 through bonus coins by unlocking tiers. Given that there’s 50 days or so left, I’m pretty confident I will reach Tier 30 before the end of the series and have enough to buy Season 2’s VIP pass too.

The way it works now, it feels perfectly reasonable to me. If they start to skew the balance more towards forcing you to pay, rather than giving you a reasonable opportunity to earn everything through playing the game, then I think we can start to get a little upset. However, the way it is now feels like it’s pretty fair. I trust that Codemasters will see that they’ve hit a good balance and not look to upset that in future editions of the game. Hopefully they’ll see enough of a boost in income from the people who choose to spend money for Pitcoins to satisfy them so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy the game as it works now.

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14 minutes ago, Blent said:

I don't think the 'slippery slope to a microtransaction (MTX) filled game future' is that strong, purely because we've seen how Codemasters have been very deliberate in introducing options for microtransactions.

We've had countless examples of big controversies over MTX over the last few years - EA's Star Wars Battlefront 2, NBA 2K series, etc. We've seen that any items that affect performance for online play receives a massive backlash and leads to really bad PR. So Codemasters surely will have learnt that lesson and know never to introduce anything where you can ‘pay to win’, especially in multiplayer.

Also, they clearly have been very careful about introducing MTX into the series. MTX like these have been around for quite a while now, yet they’ve only just introduced them into F1 over the last two years. That tells you that they are being very strategic in introducing them slowly and deliberately to not upset the player base and the balance of the series by dumping a load of MTX into the game.

Finally, everything is cosmetic and the Podium Pass allows you to earn enough so that you don’t ever have to pay for anything if you get the pre-order bonus. I got my 15,000 pitcoin for the pre-order bonus Schumacher edition, bought the VIP pass with 9,000 and have already got back up to 8,500 through bonus coins by unlocking tiers. Given that there’s 50 days or so left, I’m pretty confident I will reach Tier 30 before the end of the series and have enough to buy Season 2’s VIP pass too.

The way it works now, it feels perfectly reasonable to me. If they start to skew the balance more towards forcing you to pay, rather than giving you a reasonable opportunity to earn everything through playing the game, then I think we can start to get a little upset. However, the way it is now feels like it’s pretty fair. I trust that Codemasters will see that they’ve hit a good balance and not look to upset that in future editions of the game. Hopefully they’ll see enough of a boost in income from the people who choose to spend money for Pitcoins to satisfy them so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy the game as it works now.

This is what I disagree with on MTX in a full priced game. It's not fair or reasonable to put an option there for someone to pay extra money on top of what they have already paid for the price of the game to buy something that is already included in the cost of said game. Yes it's optional but why is it there if you've already paid for it when buying the game? It's there in the hope that a fool pays for the item again and gives the company more money. It's there to feed off those who have no patience with games - believe me there are lots of these types of people now that streaming is a massive thing which people get paid for doing so the incentive is there to get as much content out as possible to win viewers to win advertising revenue. I'm not just hating on Codies for this but all companies these days that do it for nothing else but greed. There's just no need for it in such a lucrative market as it is.

 

But because society is saying that they accept this practice as it's now the norm, really is not helping. It's like I said before how people now accept that games will be launched with untold numbers of bugs (some game-breaking) or unfinished content because that is the norm knowing that the company are only doing this because they have strict deadlines and see the money is still going to come in no matter what they do with it so why bother spending heaps of time on it before launch to polish it when it can be done little by little in patches weeks and months after launch. It's a ludicrous and unethical industry most of the time and the unfortunate thing is that people don't care because they want, want, want with games so the companies have no incentive to change for the better and are changing for the worse. They only see money and profits!! True it's a business so that's why they are there but still business should be conducted in a better way.  

 

 

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21 minutes ago, martbloke said:

This is what I disagree with on MTX in a full priced game. It's not fair or reasonable to put an option there for someone to pay extra money on top of what they have already paid for the price of the game to buy something that is already included in the cost of said game.

I'd agree, except when it comes to 'not fair and reasonable', I can think of far, far more egregious examples, like Street Fighter x Tekken, that asked players to pay extra to play as characters that were included on the disc at launch. NBA 2K, FIFA and many other franchises I can think of are far more predatory and unethical in their approach to MTX than anything CM have done so far, so when it comes to paying extra for DLC or for the chance to unlock additional cosmetic items, I personally don't find that as offensive.

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It's there to feed off those who have no patience with games  - believe me there are lots of these types of people now that streaming is a massive thing which people get paid for doing so the incentive is there to get as much content out as possible to win viewers to win advertising revenue. I'm not just hating on Codies for this but all companies these days that do it for nothing else but greed. There's just no need for it in such a lucrative market as it is.

Yes, the ability to buy currency is to give people who don't want to earn Pitcoins through playing the game an option to unlock everything with real money. If that is how people want to spend their money, that's their business as far as I'm concerned (at least, I'm talking about adults here, I don't think children should be able to buy virtual currency without adult oversight).

I don't get it, myself. Personally, I don't see myself wanting to buy coins because I just don't care enough about podium celebrations to invest real cash into it. But if there are adults out there who want to drop £10 or so on coins so they can buy zebra helmets and moonwalk on the podium, then it doesn't affect me in anyway if they can.

Given how development costs of games have risen over the last few decades and yet the cost of games at retail haven't changed very much at all with inflation, I can understand that modern publishers will look at alternative ways to maximise their earnings. The question is how they do it and whether it's predatory or unethical. I maintain that how CM have expanded on MTX in F1 2020 to be in a way I consider to be reasonable.

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But because society is saying that they accept this practice as it's now the norm, really is not helping. It's like I said before how people now accept that games will be launched with untold numbers of bugs (some game-breaking) or unfinished content because that is the norm knowing that the company are only doing this because they have strict deadlines and see the money is still going to come in no matter what they do with it so why bother spending heaps of time on it before launch to polish it when it can be done little by little in patches weeks and months after launch. It's a ludicrous and unethical industry most of the time and the unfortunate thing is that people don't care because they want, want, want with games so the companies have no incentive to change for the better and are changing for the worse. They only see money and profits!! True it's a business so that's why they are there but still business should be conducted in a better way.

I totally get those frustrations. I hate this post-launch period where the F1 games have all manner of bugs and issues that affect our ability to simply play the game as intended. It really, really sucks.

However, I don't know the first thing about programming a game, so I always cut developers slack where I can. And especially in this year where the team basically finished development of the game working from home under lockdown. It's almost guaranteed that they would have more issues at launch if they didn't delay significantly.

I think the bugs and glitches are definitely an area where CM could do better. However, I also know that modern games are so complex and have far more going on under the hood than previous generations, so there's always going to be things that slip through and don't always work as intended just because it's so hard to do. And when it comes to giving the games more time in the oven to bake so they can be more polished at launch, well that's not the most cost effective thing for publishers. Ultimately, they're going to make the best compromise for their bottom line. But that's nothing exclusive to CM, but the entire industry as a whole.

Edited by Blent
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16 minutes ago, martbloke said:

This is what I disagree with on MTX in a full priced game. It's not fair or reasonable to put an option there for someone to pay extra money on top of what they have already paid for the price of the game to buy something that is already included in the cost of said game. Yes it's optional but why is it there if you've already paid for it when buying the game? It's there in the hope that a fool pays for the item again and gives the company more money. It's there to feed off those who have no patience with games - believe me there are lots of these types of people now that streaming is a massive thing which people get paid for doing so the incentive is there to get as much content out as possible to win viewers to win advertising revenue. I'm not just hating on Codies for this but all companies these days that do it for nothing else but greed. There's just no need for it in such a lucrative market as it is.

 

But because society is saying that they accept this practice as it's now the norm, really is not helping. It's like I said before how people now accept that games will be launched with untold numbers of bugs (some game-breaking) or unfinished content because that is the norm knowing that the company are only doing this because they have strict deadlines and see the money is still going to come in no matter what they do with it so why bother spending heaps of time on it before launch to polish it when it can be done little by little in patches weeks and months after launch. It's a ludicrous and unethical industry most of the time and the unfortunate thing is that people don't care because they want, want, want with games so the companies have no incentive to change for the better and are changing for the worse. They only see money and profits!! True it's a business so that's why they are there but still business should be conducted in a better way.  

 

 

Wow man calm down. Why the hate on me? The type you describe is me. Why are you calling me a fool? I belong to the happy few that was born in a country where wages are so high I can spend money on frivolous items I could grind for. I can see how you might not live in good conditions or have other goals in life to spend your money on that seem foolish to me but don't call me foolish because I was lucky in life or have other goals in life.

Like I said before there are companies out there that like you describe go only for the profit and don't have the best interest for the user of their products in mind. I try to avoid such companies and I'm fairly good at it. Fool me once, Fool me twice and you're out. I'm not a fool. I looked at this Podium Pass like me as an adult and me as a kid and Codemasters are not trying to rob people. Adult me wants to pay for the stuff little me was happy to grind for. Little me had way more time to play than adult me. Adult me is as satisfied as little me and even a bit more satisfied because little me had to wait till the sales before he got to play F1.

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2 hours ago, Blent said:

I'd agree, except when it comes to 'not fair and reasonable', I can think of far, far more egregious examples, like Street Fighter x Tekken, that asked players to pay extra to play as characters that were included on the disc at launch. NBA 2K, FIFA and many other franchises I can think of are far more predatory and unethical in their approach to MTX than anything CM have done so far, so when it comes to paying extra for DLC or for the chance to unlock additional cosmetic items, I personally don't find that as offensive.

 

Yes, the ability to buy currency is to give people who don't want to earn Pitcoins through playing the game an option to unlock everything with real money. If that is how people want to spend their money, that's their business as far as I'm concerned (at least, I'm talking about adults here, I don't think children should be able to buy virtual currency without adult oversight).

See I see this as you comparing it to the rest of the industry's use of MTX. My thoughts are that any MTX in a full priced game are not fair nor reasonable full stop. If you look at it in your eyes when comparing Codies' use of MTX against the rest of the industry, then yes of course it is reasonable use but they are wrong full stop in games that you pay full price for especially when it is used to entice people to pay to just unlock the content earlier and take shortcuts.

 

The content where MTX is allocated to is what is expected to be included in the full game anyways and they're just adding a function where it is locked for you to earn the gear through playing the game (which is fine as it gives you something to work for), but by adding an unlock for real money, anyone who chooses to pay this extra cash is foolish IMO. You are effectively paying twice for the content (sorry @BelgiumDude, I call it as I see it). If you don't care about that then of course that is your right as it's your money and for those who have the money to burn, fair play but then there are those that don't really have that spare cash to burn but are yet enticed to do so because of the I want, I want, I want society we live in today, which of course they know, it's unethical and irresponsible IMO. Especially as it's paying again for content that is already in game and included in your original purchase price of the game. It is foolish to buy into it and it provides the companies the justification to keep them in, potentially going further with it and keep prying and feeding off those people.

 

3 hours ago, Blent said:

I don't get it, myself. Personally, I don't see myself wanting to buy coins because I just don't care enough about podium celebrations to invest real cash into it. But if there are adults out there who want to drop £10 or so on coins so they can buy zebra helmets and moonwalk on the podium, then it doesn't affect me in anyway if they can.

Given how development costs of games have risen over the last few decades and yet the cost of games at retail haven't changed very much at all with inflation, I can understand that modern publishers will look at alternative ways to maximise their earnings. The question is how they do it and whether it's predatory or unethical. I maintain that how CM have expanded on MTX in F1 2020 to be in a way I consider to be reasonable.

I get that it's a business and so they want to make more profit, but the above is not an excuse for MTX. If their costs have gone up and they are struggling to cover these with the price being as it is, then they should adequately price their product better (they'd still get buyers by the sounds of things). If that does not help and they are struggling to break even and/or make a small profit (as that's what businesses want to do), then they need to look at their product and look to cut costs. Does the game really need classic cars? It's a nicety but really makes no difference to the game. 

 

Don't get me wrong, paying for DLC which is in addition to what is expected to be in the full game is fine but if that DLC is just what should be in the game from the start but pulled out to later sell on as DLC and maximise profit, then no that falls into the same category as these MTX.

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4 minutes ago, martbloke said:

[A well-reasoned post]

I still don't quite share your view of things, but I can totally respect that you're coming from a good place with well-intentioned concerns. Ultimately, I think you're right that MTX can be exploitative of our modern culture at times, but I suppose I don't agree that simply having the option to buy these extras present in the game is inherently unacceptable in itself.

I definitely wish it wasn't a thing, but, as I say, I feel that given all the circumstances, it could still be far worse when it comes to F1 2020 and I give CM credit for that. I know 'this isn't as bad as these worse examples' isn't always an acceptable argument in a lot of cases, but I really do feel that it's something we're just going to have to accept as a byproduct of the current state of the gaming industry and economy.

I think calling for game prices to increase instead of MTX is fair in principle, but I have many doubts about it actually working in practice. Speaking only for myself, I only buy games full price at launch if they are absolute must-buys for me. Usually I'm happy to wait a couple of months for a PSN sale and buy a newish game at its first price cut. I do wonder if the base cost of 'standard' versions of games was to increase by £20/€20/$20 or whatever, what that would actually mean for sales of games at launch compared to the way things are now. I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of consumers would struggle to swallow it.

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32 minutes ago, Blent said:

I think calling for game prices to increase instead of MTX is fair in principle, but I have many doubts about it actually working in practice. Speaking only for myself, I only buy games full price at launch if they are absolute must-buys for me. Usually I'm happy to wait a couple of months for a PSN sale and buy a newish game at its first price cut. I do wonder if the base cost of 'standard' versions of games was to increase by £20/€20/$20 or whatever, what that would actually mean for sales of games at launch compared to the way things are now. I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of consumers would struggle to swallow it.

To add to that, it is not only a matter of players not liking a price hike. It effectively raises the barrier of entry or so to speak. There will be those disgruntled players that will pay the full price nonetheless, those disgruntled that will turn away at least for a while, and a good chunk of players that simply won't have the disposable income to dish out.

And I don't think that it is as straightforward as saying we're paying (with money or hours of grind, whatever) for content that otherwise could be available in the game from the get go. However small, there is still a developing cost associated with cosmetic items both in time and human resources – which all ultimately translates to money. A game must reach its deadline for release not only to hit those landmarks the devs set to themselves but to appease stakeholders of any sort. And we're talking about an ongoing thing: Podium Pass is intended to serve the game with new content throughout its whole life cycle.

Again, there is no saying that all that we will get could be made available from the get go. And that the revenue won't be used to beef up meaty aspects of the game, present and future iterations alike.

I've said it a couple times in this topic already. I'm a relative newcomer to the series, but I don't recall there ever having such a leap in content from one game to the next. It seems to be that Codemasters plan on broadening the F1 franchise scope. Were it stagnant and stale like FIFA and PES have been for years, the mere inclusion of a MTX model with not but the promise of improvements to come would go sour in my mouth even with the whole "it's optional and cosmetic only" spiel I adhere to myself. That does not seem to be the case as F1 2020 is objectively a bigger package than past entries.

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Codies are only using MTX at the moment for cosmetic features rather than anything to do with gameplay so I can't complain myself about that. Though things like FUT on Fifa irritate me when I spend no money and lots of effort building up my squad only to then play people who have spent a fortune obtaining legends and player of the week cards - really ruins the game for me.

However if DLC for F1 came out that included previous circuits in codemasters game that came out before - I must admit I'd be the first to pay up as I know that is something I would love, even though I'm not a fan of in game purchases. DLC's for historic cars would do nothing for me but would certainly appeal to others. But all comes down to what the publishers believe they can get the most money for from people. Hopefully codies find the right balance with this.

Edited by Turtlemoose

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I'm not opposed to microtransactions for "cosmetics", particularly on the multiplayer component, but from what I understood this has invaded the singleplayer side of the game, and the MyTeam mode particularly lives on creating your own team's identity, while only getting a pitiful selection of visuals at the start. 

I've immediately bought/pre-ordered F1 2016-2019 but with this kind of design I don't think I'll buy 2020 at all.

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1 minute ago, RaceMyZaru said:

I'm not opposed to microtransactions for "cosmetics", particularly on the multiplayer component, but from what I understood this has invaded the singleplayer side of the game, and the MyTeam mode particularly lives on creating your own team's identity, while only getting a pitiful selection of visuals at the start. 

I've immediately bought/pre-ordered F1 2016-2019 but with this kind of design I don't think I'll buy 2020 at all.

I've been doing an average of 0,67 GPs a day. Started My Team with a competent livery (to my liking at least) for my Aston Martin Jaguar inspired team based on the default ones available. This is like 20 minutes after launching the game for the first time.

I don't have pics of them available yet but it began on Tuesday and by Friday I had changed liveries twice as I was unlocking them with Podium Pass. Didn't spend a dime on it and didn't play anything other than My Team. Every new design was a step up to my tastes.

There is plenty of room for improvement but I'm ok with what went on with 4 days of playing a game I intend to play every weekend for the next year. 

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49 minutes ago, marioho said:

I've been doing an average of 0,67 GPs a day. Started My Team with a competent livery (to my liking at least) for my Aston Martin Jaguar inspired team based on the default ones available. This is like 20 minutes after launching the game for the first time.

I don't have pics of them available yet but it began on Tuesday and by Friday I had changed liveries twice as I was unlocking them with Podium Pass. Didn't spend a dime on it and didn't play anything other than My Team. Every new design was a step up to my tastes.

There is plenty of room for improvement but I'm ok with what went on with 4 days of playing a game I intend to play every weekend for the next year. 

 

See I don't mind this having to unlock things as you progress. Games need some kind of progression in them. But if it's that easy to unlock them, why add a real monetary value to them to be able to unlock them even quicker? To me there's only 1 intention there.

 

58 minutes ago, Turtlemoose said:

Codies are only using MTX at the moment for cosmetic features rather than anything to do with gameplay so I can't complain myself about that. Though things like FUT on Fifa irritate me when I spend no money and lots of effort building up my squad only to then play people who have spent a fortune obtaining legends and player of the week cards - really ruins the game for me.

However if DLC for F1 came out that included previous circuits in codemasters game that came out before - I must admit I'd be the first to pay up as I know that is something I would love, even though I'm not a fan of in game purchases. DLC's for historic cars would do nothing for me but would certainly appeal to others. But all comes down to what the publishers believe they can get the most money for from people. Hopefully codies find the right balance with this.

 

I too would buy a DLC with classic or historic tracks as an add on. They have more meat on them than the classic cars. Classic cars are meaningless to me.

2 hours ago, Blent said:

I still don't quite share your view of things, but I can totally respect that you're coming from a good place with well-intentioned concerns. Ultimately, I think you're right that MTX can be exploitative of our modern culture at times, but I suppose I don't agree that simply having the option to buy these extras present in the game is inherently unacceptable in itself.

I definitely wish it wasn't a thing, but, as I say, I feel that given all the circumstances, it could still be far worse when it comes to F1 2020 and I give CM credit for that. I know 'this isn't as bad as these worse examples' isn't always an acceptable argument in a lot of cases, but I really do feel that it's something we're just going to have to accept as a byproduct of the current state of the gaming industry and economy.

I think calling for game prices to increase instead of MTX is fair in principle, but I have many doubts about it actually working in practice. Speaking only for myself, I only buy games full price at launch if they are absolute must-buys for me. Usually I'm happy to wait a couple of months for a PSN sale and buy a newish game at its first price cut. I do wonder if the base cost of 'standard' versions of games was to increase by £20/€20/$20 or whatever, what that would actually mean for sales of games at launch compared to the way things are now. I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of consumers would struggle to swallow it.

 

People have differing opinions like us and that's not a bad thing. I just wanted to add my weight (and currently there's a lot of it, lol) behind the dislike for such things. It's your money at the end of the day (like @BelgiumDude) so can do what you like. I may not agree with doing so but that's how life is.

 

1 hour ago, RaceMyZaru said:

I'm not opposed to microtransactions for "cosmetics", particularly on the multiplayer component, but from what I understood this has invaded the singleplayer side of the game, and the MyTeam mode particularly lives on creating your own team's identity, while only getting a pitiful selection of visuals at the start. 

I've immediately bought/pre-ordered F1 2016-2019 but with this kind of design I don't think I'll buy 2020 at all.

Like others have alluded to you can earn these without actually sinking more money into the game although it could be considered a grind and this game is a massive improvement to 2019 with the new MyTeam and handling (once all the bugs are sorted of course), so don't discount it just yet. Maybe buy it in a sale like I will be - never like buying full price or at launch these days with how games are launched with bugs galore. 2K21 PGA TOUR may be a different story however (depending on info as it's lacking at the moment) as I love the The Golf Club franchise and have had countless hours out of TGC 2019 with there being 100,000s of courses to play due to the creative public designers - still my favourite game at this time! haha

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For the multiplayer online part of the game, I can see the access to fancy liveries, badges, etc. to be, well a badge of honour, fine.

For me the My Team side has inadequate livery, helmet, and badge choices. Having to grind to get them seems rediculous. The premise was sold on not only running your own team but making it yours. The game otherwise, minor bugs aside which I am sure will get straightened out, is top notch to me. The MyTeam customization is the biggest shortcoming to me.  And I would pay for a specific livery or badge if one really spoke to me, but so far nothing has grabbed me (not that I have any pitcoins yet (still waiting)).

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