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Slipstreaming

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1 hour ago, s00zster said:

I think it's fine, more realistic than last year. If you've watched the Austrian / Styrian GPs, you'll see that even with a car within 1 second of the car in front, plus using DRS, it can take them multiple laps before they can get close enough to overtake.

I'm having the best racing ever thanks to this. Hope they don't change it.

Yes I noticed that racing is way more fun this year. Not sure why that is but they should keep it this way.

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16 minutes ago, BelgiumDude said:

Yes I noticed that racing is way more fun this year. Not sure why that is but they should keep it this way.

I second that, the racing this year has been extremely good and I now have to plan my attack sometimes 2 laps ahead.

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It's not even close to realistic.
Why? My guess is that dirty air (slipstream) is done in a cheap dirty way.
So if you're less that 1.X second behind other car you get dirty air and slipstream[- X % of total grip] problem is it takes away a grip in low speed corners where areo does nothing.
It ends in understearing in 50km\h corners, were grip is rubber only. Did you ever saw modern F1 car understear under safety car? NO. Why? Cause speed is to low for areo to even mater. 
On top of that it looks like it doesn't afect AI as much as it does player. 

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I did a 50% race on 105 difficulty on the pad as Russell today at Melbourne in preparation for My team. I spent the first half of the race behind Latifi because of this. Not sure if my wing settings were to high, because I was running 6 on the front and 9 on the rear. I had to get extremely close, like 0.4 to get any chance of closing him down on the straights. I only got past Latifi when he pitted first, and I stayed out for another lap. 
 

Damn, is the dirty air powerful and it makes exit speed even more important now. Whenever I was behind Latifi, it was a lot easier to slide, and the understeer was insane. We need to get away from the turbulent air by taking a slightly different line to the car in front... 
 

Now, all those f1 noobs who keep hating on drivers know how does it feel to be stuck behind someone. I mean, after I got past Latifi, I finished 15 seconds in front of him and 10 seconds away from the next car. 

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6/9 wing in Melbourne is a bit to much in my opinion. My setup is 5/4 and i think there are a lot of guys which have even lower wings in Melbourne.

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I think one probleme is also, that the overtake-button is overpowerd. The AI is using it to defend, so even with rich mix, DRS and slipstream you cant overtake without using the overtake-mode.

They were using it in 2019 as well to defend, but with the seemingly weaker slipstream this year its way to hard to overtake sometimes.

In one race i (red bull) was overtaken by russel....i was using rich mix and had DRS (no overtake), he on the other hand had no DRS and no slipstream because he was alongside me and

was just using Overtake....he was flying past me.

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4 minutes ago, esdee85 said:

I think one probleme is also, that the overtake-button is overpowerd. The AI is using it to defend, so even with rich mix, DRS and slipstream you cant overtake without using the overtake-mode.

They were using it in 2019 as well to defend, but with the seemingly weaker slipstream this year its way to hard to overtake sometimes.

In one race i (red bull) was overtaken by russel....i was using rich mix and had DRS (no overtake), he on the other hand had no DRS and no slipstream because he was alongside me and

was just using Overtake....he was flying past me.

It's not overpowered. It was addressed by @David Greco CM himself who explained that the OT is extra 160hp that you get when using. There is no secret to it. Pure performance advantage.

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And that maybe is the Problem....i dont know how realistic 160hp compared to Real Life is. You wouldnt see the scenario i discriped in real life. i dont know how much 

performanceboost would be realistic. 

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Posted (edited)

160hp like in reality

Edited by LILLHELM
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It's 160hp in real life too. Like I said, the devs got the data from real teams.

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On 7/15/2020 at 3:36 PM, Costa said:

What are you talking about? Slipstream is basically inexistent in this game, the only way to gain places is by a combined use of overtake button and DRS.

Also is there even dirty air on the game? I feel like it doesn't exist either so it all balances it out.

There is dirty air but not a lot. David Greco told us in beta that they didn't want to have too much of a dirty air effect or to simulate it realistically as you would end up with trains all the time with the car being unable to pass due to being too unsettled to get close that easily.  Makes sense to be fair. It's a game afterall.

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52 minutes ago, LILLHELM said:

160hp like in reality

 

50 minutes ago, ragequit1 said:

It's 160hp in real life too. Like I said, the devs got the data from real teams.

i know that the MGU-K gives them 160hp to the wheel. what i mean is, that they are already using some if not all of that energy before they press overtake. so they should only get some additional power

to reach that 160hp from the K. The Overtake-mode keeps the K then from clipping at a certain point (for example towards the end of a straight). I think the overtake mode in real life is a bit more complex.

From what i understand it also opens the wastegates, making the mgu-h spin the turbo + giving the ICE some extra power. I just feel like the boost you get in the game is a bit too much.

 

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1 hour ago, esdee85 said:

 

i know that the MGU-K gives them 160hp to the wheel. what i mean is, that they are already using some if not all of that energy before they press overtake. so they should only get some additional power

to reach that 160hp from the K. The Overtake-mode keeps the K then from clipping at a certain point (for example towards the end of a straight). I think the overtake mode in real life is a bit more complex.

From what i understand it also opens the wastegates, making the mgu-h spin the turbo + giving the ICE some extra power. I just feel like the boost you get in the game is a bit too much.

 

I think you are correct. Also depends on the PU how they go about with their quali modes or overtake modes. I am of the belief that they actually use a lean fuel mix for this. At least that's how Ferrari apparently did it. Lean fuel mix with extra (illegaly so) fuel flow to deal with the heat it results in.

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On 7/15/2020 at 4:53 PM, Aef251 said:

I second that, the racing this year has been extremely good and I now have to plan my attack sometimes 2 laps ahead.

Agree. You can’t really pass wherever  anymore thanks to the dirty air effect, and you have to be a lot more tactical with using your OT too. I have sat behind a driver for 5-6 laps to fully charge my battery so I could unleash to help pass and get out of DRS range to avoid a re-pass. Gone are the days where you can pass multiple cars lap after lap which I think it great. Racing through the field really feels like a fight this year. 

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5 hours ago, johnboy83 said:

Agree. You can’t really pass wherever  anymore thanks to the dirty air effect, and you have to be a lot more tactical with using your OT too. I have sat behind a driver for 5-6 laps to fully charge my battery so I could unleash to help pass and get out of DRS range to avoid a re-pass. Gone are the days where you can pass multiple cars lap after lap which I think it great. Racing through the field really feels like a fight this year. 

Even though I criticize the lack of slipstream, in general I also agree with you that the racing is better than before because of the dirty air. I just still think the slipstream effect should be stronger at "short ranges", say when within 75 meters or so. The thing is, what you described is great for 50% and especially 100% races. Anything below that and it becomes pretty much impossible to win from something like P5 if the field is well-matched. Like you said, overtaking can take 5 laps. In a 25% Spa that means two overtakes for the race. I always prefer to race 50% or even 100%, but it's hard to find those lobbies.

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On 7/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, esdee85 said:

 

i know that the MGU-K gives them 160hp to the wheel. what i mean is, that they are already using some if not all of that energy before they press overtake. so they should only get some additional power

to reach that 160hp from the K. The Overtake-mode keeps the K then from clipping at a certain point (for example towards the end of a straight). I think the overtake mode in real life is a bit more complex.

From what i understand it also opens the wastegates, making the mgu-h spin the turbo + giving the ICE some extra power. I just feel like the boost you get in the game is a bit too much.

 

We just override wtv setting the ers is using at that moment and deploy 160 bhp from the hybrid system. it is not doing 50bhp for example plus 160.. is doing 50bhp + 110.

Enough talking or speculating about this, is just using the full power, that is how it works in the game. The only difference is, the ERS is much more calibrated over a lap and race in real life, but they are full of engineers and weeks of time in simulator per race to do that, I am one person, and do a general balancing, meaning that, of course, you will have much more overtake left per lap and per race, This is where the difference still is at with real life mostly, but the system follows the real rules, 160bhp max, 4 mj per lap max deploy, 2 mj per lap max harvesting from the mgu-k, unlimited mgu-h harvesting. 

No trickery, no crazy things going on.

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Posted (edited)

Slipstream effect needs increasing a little while dirty air effect needs reducing slightly just so there's slightly more opportunity to overtake, as I feel like I'm needing to utilise overtake too much to overtake. 

Edited by UNiTY Ryan

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1 hour ago, David Greco CM said:

We just override wtv setting the ers is using at that moment and deploy 160 bhp from the hybrid system. it is not doing 50bhp for example plus 160.. is doing 50bhp + 110.

Enough talking or speculating about this, is just using the full power, that is how it works in the game. The only difference is, the ERS is much more calibrated over a lap and race in real life, but they are full of engineers and weeks of time in simulator per race to do that, I am one person, and do a general balancing, meaning that, of course, you will have much more overtake left per lap and per race, This is where the difference still is at with real life mostly, but the system follows the real rules, 160bhp max, 4 mj per lap max deploy, 2 mj per lap max harvesting from the mgu-k, unlimited mgu-h harvesting. 

No trickery, no crazy things going on.

Thanks for clearing this up.

But how about the slipstream? I think by now almost everyone can agree and see with their own eyes that it's too weak on the game and plus the dirty air (which is fine) is produces these trains and the only way to fix it is to make the slipstream effect more realistic and basically much stronger than it currently is. 

Slipstream in real life is even more powerful than DRS. You see cars passing each other by sitting right behind another car in the slipstream while the car ahead has DRS opened. You could use the slipstream as a tool for racing if you have the race craft and intelligence/experience of how to do it. Otherwise the racing online becomes very dull with a competitive field.

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I disagree I think the slipstream is perfect this year makes it feel like proper racing where you have to earn your overtake. Don't want it going back to 2019 where it became like an arcade mode.

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In my opinion, the slipstream is exactly what it is in real life. Take last F1 Race as an example. Bottas was 1,5 sec faster than Verstappen and could easily close the gap up to 1 sec behind. Than it stopped. Even with the better car, DRS and slipstream he couldn't overtake. That's what i said two years ago. Overtaking is mostly hard work in real F1.

Last year many people complained about the lack of realism. Now it's more realistic and the people complaining about it should be easier to overtake. I don't really get it. For me it's absolutely right this year.

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19 minutes ago, Akkan74 said:

In my opinion, the slipstream is exactly what it is in real life. Take last F1 Race as an example. Bottas was 1,5 sec faster than Verstappen and could easily close the gap up to 1 sec behind. Than it stopped. Even with the better car, DRS and slipstream he couldn't overtake. That's what i said two years ago. Overtaking is mostly hard work in real F1.

Last year many people complained about the lack of realism. Now it's more realistic and the people complaining about it should be easier to overtake. I don't really get it. For me it's absolutely right this year.

Bottas was in DRS range for 1 lap. He closed down 0.5 seconds on Verstappen on the straight.

Of course slipstream is useless in corners, which Hungaroring is full of.

Did you see last year's Hungarian Grand Prix? This year also there were several overtakes and/or attempts to Turn 1.

Yesterday we had a 50% league race in Monza. Half a second gap out of Parabolica with DRS and less wing than the car in front meant being too far away for an overtake into Turn 1. That's just wrong.

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1 hour ago, UNiTY Ryan said:

Slipstream effect needs increasing a little while dirty air effect needs reducing slightly just so there's slightly more opportunity to overtake, as I feel like I'm needing to utilise overtake too much to overtake. 

 

I did wonder the same at first but then i cottoned onto the fact that many of the weird and wonderful set ups people copy from time trial aren't exactly great for passing in a straight line. 

If you choose an appropriate set up i've found no issues against the AI. Using some of the top TT set ups was like carrying a parachute behind me pulling me back.

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1 hour ago, UNiTY Ryan said:

Slipstream effect needs increasing a little while dirty air effect needs reducing slightly just so there's slightly more opportunity to overtake, as I feel like I'm needing to utilise overtake too much to overtake. 

Dirty air is already reduced what they have in real life. This was cleared by @David Greco CM. The slipstream is fine too, perfect example was yesterday's race.

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I have the fun of my life with F1 2020. Never before have I had such a great experience with a racing game. The main reason for this is that the AI cannot simply be overtaken as soon as I am in the DRS window. I have to work hard to overtake the AI and that's exactly what I've always wanted.

I experience F1 2020 exactly as I know Formula 1. Every driver has to work hard to overtake. I don't see any problems here.

The "AI trains" are not a problem either, because when I drive 100% race length, everyone drives where they belong in terms of performance, just like in reality. A Hamilton AI or Verstappen AI only likes to get stuck behind an AI train in 50% races because the gaps are too small when they make a pit stop.

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