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Manufacturers conspicuous by their absence

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So I was a bit bored and looking at the 'periodic table' pictures and imagining what further treats could lay in store for us over coming months. This game has changed my perspective on historic cars, as it does them really well and actual has realistic categories/carsets. I never thought that a 70s class would become my favourite in a rallying game, for example, but the Stratos v Escort v Fiat (v Opel) battle is one I'm really enjoying. Would love to see more cars added to the existing 'eras', but it got me thinking about licensing and how easy/difficult it can be.


For the record, I know nothing, the below is just the collective ramblings and speculation from someone with too much typing time on his hands.


Toyota

Rarely seem to appear in PC games these days. Notably absent from the likes of Assetto Corsa, Project CARS and R3E (although good chance for them to appear in PCARS later), Toyota are intrinsically linked to rallying and you would have thought would be very interested in furthering their rallying heritage via such a good platform as DR. They are possibly the most conspicuous absence as we all know the Celica ST205, Tacoma and Celica PP are models used in DiRT 3 and would fit nicely into existing DR categories. There are rumours about Toyota being very strict with their license with regards to damage depiction. I’m wondering if the Celica could be one of the ‘legendary cars’ referred to in the Finland blurb on the timeline though.


Renault/Alpine

Very conspicuous, seeing as we already know there are two cars modelled and in game, but couldn’t be included in the latest update. There has been no issue including them in previous DiRT games though and several others have use of their IP too, so I imagine something will be worked out to allow their inclusion. Here’s hoping, as the two we’ve seen are very iconic.


Citroen

If it wasn’t for the fact that the previously modelled Citroens don’t have a natural place in any of the game’s categories, this one would be a glaring omission. As it is, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, especially as there were apparently few issues including them in previous DiRT titles and PSA stablemate Peugeot seems to have presented no problems. But the emergence of SLRE makes me wonder whether the fact there is no Ford Focus is connected to the possibility of not having permission for the C4 and not, as I previously guessed, that it didn’t fit into their new class structure. Still, we’ll have to wait to see what Modern Masters brings; here’s hoping it includes a DS3.


Mitsubishi

Perhaps not that conspicuous, as there are no existing models that would nicely slot into the DR structure. In fact, the only car that would do would be a Group A Lancer and this hasn’t existed before, so there’s a good chance that one will be included at a later date. Mitsubishi are traditionally very open to licensing all of their content and were one of the first to appear in Project CARS and Game Stock Car as well as having seemingly thousands of models appear in Gran Turismo.


Porsche

We all know the deal with EA holding back Porsche’s license, and even some of the biggest companies struggle to get hold of the IP. With their position in rallying not amongst the biggest names, there’s every chance CM haven’t even considered this one to any great extent. There are a lot of RUF equivalents and maybe this could be an option for future inclusion, but I wouldn’t count on it. The EA stranglehold on the license is supposedly ending next year, but it remains to be seen what Porsche’s policy will be.


Nissan/Datsun

Not the most obvious inclusion, but Nissan are currently playing very hard on their motorsport heritage and are appearing in all major (and minor) franchises en masse, from R3E and Project CARS to Gran Turismo and Forza. There’s no Datsun Violet/160J or 240Z modelled, so there’s no reason to expect any issues should the devs want to include them in future.


Saab

Have Saab ever been included in a (car) game? I genuinely don’t know if they have been. Not that there are an abundance of models that would be suitable for DR, but the two- or four-stroke 96 would be a wonderful inclusion to the 60s class. I’m wildly speculating, but maybe this would be one to include with the Winter Wonderland update, seeing as those are the conditions in which it was most successful. Either way, their absence from DR isn’t that conspicuous but their absence from all automotive video games is a bit!

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Saab was in the Forza series. I agree the 96 would be so awesome in the '60s class.

For me the big one missing is the Evo, either in Group A, or a Group N class.

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Toyota: Assetto Corsa has already confirmed some toyotas (GT86, Supra...)

Renault: Really hope they sort it out, i was really looking forward to drive the R5T Gr.4 :(
(and please CM, when you do solve this, bring back the R5 Maxi Turbo that was in DiRT 1 as well, more cars to the RWD Gr.B class :smiley: )

Citroen: the DS3 R3T/R5/WRC are really important in modern rally classes, so i hope there's no exclusive license with those

Mitsubishi: in DiRT 3 we had the Evo X Open Class, which was pretty much like the N4/R4 car, DiRT 2 had the Evo IX N4, couple 'em with the Subaru N12 we had in DiRT 3 and we've got a new class :)
Still needs a Gr.A Evolution though 

Porsche: let's wait and see how things will be next year, but i prefer no Ruf alternatives, as they are very different to the original Porsches

Nissan: i don't care much for their rally cars, even though they had invested a lot in Rally Safari back then and won some, and they also had Kit Cars in the 90s, i don't know if they were factory supported entries though, so yeah, will not be missed, but would be a cool/not-obvious addition

SAAB: DiRT 1 had a Saab RX Supercar, Bugbear's Rally Trophy had the classic Saab 96 V4 and various SAABs appeared in Forza games as well

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enamel said:
Saab was in the Forza series. 0I agree the 96 would be so awesome in the '60s class.

For me the big one missing is the Evo, either in Group A, or a Group N class.
Saab also was in  rally sport challenge if I remember correctly. Also don't  forget the trusty Scoda.

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Lada, Skoda, and Volkswagen would be welcome too, and a Volvo 240.

Evo, GT-Four, and now that you mention it 240Z, are sorely missing from DR—and I don't say that just because I spent 20,000 CR on the "Japanese manufactured vehicles" perk.

Not conspicuous, but would be really cool and is totally pie-in-the-sky, would be Ferrari: having the 288 GTO in a Group B (What Could Have Been) class, along with the BMW M1 and all those other cars that never had the chance to compete.

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Toyota

Rarely seem to appear in PC games these days. Notably absent from the likes of Assetto Corsa, Project CARS and R3E (although good chance for them to appear in PCARS later), Toyota are intrinsically linked to rallying and you would have thought would be very interested in furthering their rallying heritage via such a good platform as DR. They are possibly the most conspicuous absence as we all know the Celica ST205, Tacoma and Celica PP are models used in DiRT 3 and would fit nicely into existing DR categories. There are rumours about Toyota being very strict with their license with regards to damage depiction. I’m wondering if the Celica could be one of the ‘legendary cars’ referred to in the Finland blurb on the timeline though.

The Celica GT Pikes Peak was in the original DiRT, but hasn't been back in the series since.
The thing about Toyota is that they killed off both the Celica and Supra, getting out of doing high performance road cars in general that would make a good basis for Rally/TC/GT cars, with the Lexus brand taking over from the Supra in Super GT.
They were kinda absent from Intl motorsport after quietly abandoning F1, before the LMP team got going three years later. The TS030 made into into GT6 in an update, but other devs seem to be very slow in picking up on the Toyota LMPs.
Of course, Toyota now plans to return to the WRC in 2017 with the Yaris which is going to be tested throughout this year and next.
Unlikely they will be interested in having that appear in any games just yet that aren't Gran Turismo.
The Japanese manufacturers have an understandable affinity with and generally close ties to the home-grown serious car game.

Saab

Have Saab ever been included in a (car) game? I genuinely don’t know if they have been. Not that there are an abundance of models that would be suitable for DR, but the two- or four-stroke 96 would be a wonderful inclusion to the 60s class. I’m wildly speculating, but maybe this would be one to include with the Winter Wonderland update, seeing as those are the conditions in which it was most successful. Either way, their absence from DR isn’t that conspicuous but their absence from all automotive video games is a bit!

Saab are a regular in the Forza series, which is little surprise since they were a General Motors company.
The Saab 9-3 T16 was also a rally cross car in the original DiRT and I'm pretty sure there were Saabs in TOCA as well. ;)
When it comes to Saab and gaming/sims, this has been by far the most popular model.

On the note of Renault, let's remember that we don't know that there are actually any issues or problems at all in that regard.
We're just assuming that because we know they exist, but weren't released last month.
But we don't actually know that they were ever intended to be in the Germany pack at all. If they weren't, then they aren't 'missing' from it.
Being an internal build that was never meant to be released, it could contain all kinds of different content from multiple packages in different stages of implementation. That would not be unusual.

This game has changed my perspective on historic cars, as it does them really well and actual has realistic categories/carsets.

With the notable exception of the Audi Quattro in Group B. Given that it's up against the Delta S4 and 205 Evo 2, it should really be the Quattro S1 Evo 2 that's in the game. It needed all those aero parts and massive power to stay competitive (An Evo version of the RS200 would also be more balanced, but that never came to be in the WRC)

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Porsche are out of reach atm.Saab doesnt really exist as a manufacturer right now.We know there were some problems with Renault licensing(hope they will be sorted and we get a small "French Devils" pack in July in place of the RX).Citroen are known to be quirky but eventually they will appear in game.Nissan rally cars arent so popular(a Sunny GTI-R could be good btw).Mitsubishi and Toyota are most likely on their way.

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Barnestah said:
enamel said:
Saab was in the Forza series. 0I agree the 96 would be so awesome in the '60s class.

For me the big one missing is the Evo, either in Group A, or a Group N class.
Saab also was in I rally sport challenge if I remember correctly. Also don't  forget the trusty Scoda.
Yes, it was...as was the Volvo Amazon.

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enamel said:
Saab was in the Forza series. I agree the 96 would be so awesome in the '60s class.

For me the big one missing is the Evo, either in Group A, or a Group N class.


A Group A Evo III / IV / V could well fit the 'legendary cars of legendary drivers' blurb accompanying the Finland description.

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cjl9 said:
Barnestah said:
enamel said:
Saab was in the Forza series. 0I agree the 96 would be so awesome in the '60s class.

For me the big one missing is the Evo, either in Group A, or a Group N class.
Saab also was in I rally sport challenge if I remember correctly. Also don't  forget the trusty Scoda.
Yes, it was...as was the Volvo Amazon.

My old man had a rally Amazon! He also ran a Volvo 142, Volvo 240 and an Opel Ascona A.

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I would love to have the Astra, Megane and Xsara Kit Cars to complete that class.

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I recall someone from Codemasters (possibly @KickUp ?) talking about the inclusion of the Citroen C4 (and the subsequent rallycross C4 DLC) for DiRT 3. If I remember rightly Citroen were very fussy about its use, insisting that it only appeared in genuine liveries only.

As said though, Citroen - especially the C4 and DS3 - are iconic cars in both rally and rallycross, so it would be superb to see them included. 

With regards to Mitsubishi I fully agree with @OttoWilson : the Group A Lancer is a must have late 90's car to me (along with its major rival, the S4/S5 Impreza ;) )

I both agree and disagree with @BrySkye about the inclusion of the E2 quattro. It's probably the most iconic looking Group B car of all (and for that reason alone it should be in game), but I know a lot of the drivers of the era (most notably Walter Rohrl) always maintained that the original S1 quattro was the better car. 

Skoda would be great. If I recall correctly the S2000 Fabia was cut from DiRT 3 due to licensing issues, so perhaps Skoda are too demanding when it comes to featuring cars in game? 

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all money mainly isnt it.malyngo its the other way round isnt it ? codemasters needs to use "their" product.

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I would like to start seeing cars that haven't been as popular or included in previous games  A Datsun 240 would be really cool and different (think slingshot car physics).  

Porsche is probably a pipe dream, I mentioned this before but I think they signed on with EA partially because their marketing team didn't want to deal with everyone (begging) for the license and left the rights to EA to sort out.  Porsche would still need to approve EAs licensees anyhow (car damage etc) Ruf never made an equivalent 959 which is pretty iconic, thought it would be incredible to hear what @soundfx would work up with these cars.

Saab is a yes and no for me, there is a 92 that regularly runs here in the US, its fun to watch.  In face that 3 cylinder sounds crazy mad coming through the forest until it passes you at seemingly 20mph :)

Subaru: the 92 Legacy would be cool to have, its not around in many games, i think Forza licensed it recently?  Has some good history with McRae driving it.  Have the WRC99 been in anything recently?  It has a great deep boxer sound with lots of antilag (ahem @soundfx).  Also the new Vermont SportsCar 2015 STI here in the US would be special too.

And can't talk about Subaru without mentioning Mitsubishi the 2005 WRC EVO would be a different car to see too.  

One group of cars that I once mentioned too was GM for a hillclimb car would be fitting along with whatever weird concoction (Ryse Millin) that has been done for a hillclimb car, just for something newer in the game.  No Chevys in rally,  please, they appear once in a while in the US, but are really poor-mans cars, there for fun and not competing.

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Good point about Skoda, I hadn't listed them because I assumed their absence was down to lack of suitable cars for existing classes, but I would sincerely love to see the S2000 E2 Fabia in there, best sounding car of its generation (unlike the dull sounding R5).

I really don't get why they would be so stringent with their license either; the whole point of Skoda rallying is to get the word out that it can be sporty too, and compete with the brands it used to be unfairly mocked next to. Their rallying programme from the 90s until modern day has probably played a good role in that, I hope they spread the word.

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Good point about Skoda, I hadn't listed them because I assumed their absence was down to lack of suitable cars for existing classes, but I would sincerely love to see the S2000 E2 Fabia in there, best sounding car of its generation (unlike the dull sounding R5).

I really don't get why they would be so stringent with their license either; the whole point of Skoda rallying is to get the word out that it can be sporty too, and compete with the brands it used to be unfairly mocked next to. Their rallying programme from the 90s until modern day has probably played a good role in that, I hope they spread the word.
Also remember that Skoda is owned by VW not sure who manages the licensing though.  My thoughts are if its just VW then they would be talking to the same people for both licenses.  

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Pretty sure they are all taken care of by the individual companies/brands themselves. Separate conversations needed for Seat, Skoda, VW, Audi and Porsche, each of which has good rallying heritage! Seems to be the same with Bentley and Lamborghini in other circles too.

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tbtstt said:
I both agree and disagree with @BrySkye about the inclusion of the E2 quattro. It's probably the most iconic looking Group B car of all (and for that reason alone it should be in game), but I know a lot of the drivers of the era (most notably Walter Rohrl) always maintained that the original S1 quattro was the better car. 

It probably was the better car in terms of being a more balanced package and so better to drive. 
The thing about Group B was by 1986, all of the cars were genuinely pretty damn nasty to drive. The competition had forced the horsepower up to levels way beyond what you would expect in lightweight, short wheelbase cars which had limited downforce and still needed reasonably soft, ground clearing suspension. 
Completely unforgiving, but with undeniable raw performance which you ultimately needed to be competitive. 
Henri Toivonen was doing really well in the Delta S4, but was pretty open in saying he didn't feel like he had much control of it.

So in terms of gameplay balance, the E2 is a better fit against the other cars. It might be more difficult to drive, but it was undeniably a faster car with more power and downforce.
Because as it stands, the current Quattro model was outclassed by the original 205, nevermind its Evolution which is in the game.

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I so wish we could have porsche, expecially now that they started rallying again, which imho is amazing. Also, what about hyundai? They used to compete with Coupe around 98-99, i think, and they are competing right now. While they may not have been the most successful, it was a car i enjoyed driving back in mobil1 rally championship :P

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I so wish we could have porsche, expecially now that they started rallying again, which imho is amazing. Also, what about hyundai? They used to compete with Coupe around 98-99, i think, and they are competing right now. While they may not have been the most successful, it was a car i enjoyed driving back in mobil1 rally championship :P
Given that some members of the Hyundai WRC team have visited Codemasters, I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least on the radar.

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Mazda RX7 and 323 Familia 4WD Turbo, both popular rally cars here in NZ
Not sure about elsewhere

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mmarionz said:
Mazda RX7 and 323 Familia 4WD Turbo, both popular rally cars here in NZ
Not sure about elsewhere
I think there was a group B RX7, both versions would be nice.  Good to compare and work up to, like a R2 and R5 fiesta.  

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gfRally said:
mmarionz said:
Mazda RX7 and 323 Familia 4WD Turbo, both popular rally cars here in NZ
Not sure about elsewhere
I think there was a group B RX7, both versions would be nice.  Good to compare and work up to, like a R2 and R5 fiesta.  
Group B RX7 would be mega. There's a few of them available to record for audio in this country too. 

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