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AI at Hanoi Circuit

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Hi everyone. I haven't posted in the F1 community forums in a long, long time. But I had to after "trying" to finish a race at the Vietnam Hanoi track. 

I had all kinds of trouble having a clean race there. I think I had to restart the session at least two dozen times because the AI was behaving so erratically on that track. At first I thought it was just me and having the slowest car on the track. I'm not the best driver and my car is definitely one of the slowest (I mean who's isn't at the start of My Team career). But I caught the AI doing the same thing to it's AI brethren too. 

Here is a clip of what I'm talking about: 

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104337699

We're a bunch of cars at the hairpin. The AI in the Alpha Tauri clearly dive bombs to get in (nice). But then instead of trying to hold the inside, it just veers into me. To make matters worse, you'd think that after coming into contact with my car, it would try to correct the situation and steer away, but no. It just kept FORCING me off the track. At first I thought it was me, but I noticed it kept doing the same thing. And not just to me, but to other AI cars, so it's not that MY driving was bad, it's that the AI seems to be extremely volatile on that track. 

Here's another one: 

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104338045

I had the inside at Turn 1, but the AI Lance Stroll decided, since he had a faster car than I did, to pass me on the outside. Wonderful! But as I let off the gas and try to avoid contact he just turns into me and causes a crash. Now since I was going to restart anyways, I decided to see what the AI would do if I just let it happen. And as you can see, the AI doesn't even pretend to be bothered about our cars being tangled. It doesn't back off. It doesn't try to correct its line. It just pushes my car along with his. I'm not even accelerating or doing anything. I'm just waiting for the AI to stop and give us a chance to come untangled. Doesn't happen...

Again, I thought it was just me and my driving. But then I caught the AI doing the same thing to the other AI:

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104338411

Here I back off at the hairpin, having learned what happens if you even remotely try to challenge it on this track. The AI goes for the dive bomb, and then as it enters the turn, instead of slowing down and turning into it, it just veers towards the outside right into another AI driver's car. Dude...

I've only seen the AI act like this at this particular track. I've driven on others, including Monaco just fine. But the AI is balistic at Hanoi!! I hope there's some sort of fix for the AI lines because this circuit is now one I'm going to avoid going forward in F1 2020's career modes. It's just frustrating and not fun at all. 

Anybody else experience this or is it just me. (Please tell me it's just me!) LOL. 

 

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Ok 1st, the 2nd video shows absolutely nothing to be honest. Secondly, 1 and 3 are 100% your fault i think. The 1st one, where it started, ya i thought it was the Ai at the beginning, until you rewind. Pause video 1 with 9 seconds left. You can see the Ai already having half of their car in front of you yet you turned in as if it was YOUR racing line. How the heck do you expect the Ai to race when all you give them is the whole curb lol. The 3rd one pause it with 14 seconds left. Again, you turned in on the Ai as he was making the pass on you, messed him up resulting in what you recorded. If you would have left them space, you would be over taken (unless you got him out of the corner) and he wouldn't have crashed. Sorry, 1 and 3 in my opinion are just you not giving enough space (in my opinion of course). Hope more can answer because just what i think alone isn't enough to say this or that. But thats all my opinion dude, no hard feelings, just felt like a little more space would have prevented those crashes. Now video 2, no idea whats happening lol, to me it looks like he's trying to get back on track and you kinda did nothing to get off of him lol

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Posted (edited)

In the 1st clip, I'm absolutely in my line and I'm trying hard to keep to it. I saw him turn in on the inside and thought, ok, he's gonna have to cut the corner to keep ahead, but then he smashes into me. Then on the replay I saw the AI turn into the corner, then suddenly veer out and into my car. Could I have given him a wider birth? Probably but I don't think that would've helped as per clips 2 and 3. The AI just seem intent on being ultra aggressive at most of the apexes on this track, which I haven't seen on other tracks. 

Clip 2, I'm not gonna lie, I was very frustrated at that point. I had restarted this race so many times because of the AI's wanton abuse. I just wanted to keep to the inside line and give him the outside. I had come in a little hot, so my grip wasn't the best, but I didn't want to necessarily stop my car and let him through. So I just tried to coast as near to the apex as I could. But no... The AI decided that it just wanted to force its way ahead. So I let it carry me just to see how far it would take it. I was expecting the AI to stop or turn away from my car to continue on. But instead it just kept us locked in and accelerating. I wasn't on the throttle at all. 

Clip 3, it's not me. that's two AI cars. You see my car at the beginning of the clip (the Shark sponsored Purple/White car) and THIS TIME, I did back off as I had another Alpha Tauri in front and obviously didn't have the room to go to the inside. That didn't stop the AI from cutting the corner, then immediately at the 18 second mark of the clip veer sharply towards the other AI driven car. So can't blame me for that. 😛

Edited by VeNOM2099

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I see nothing strange here. What is it you want, that the AI can't overtake you?

The second clip I just don't get at all, it doesn't show anything of what made you end up in that situation. To me it looks like you're the one not wanting to concede.

Divebombing isn't an illegal move as long as you can follow through and take the corner legally. I'm sorry if you don't like being overtaken by AI but as MichaelDecker says, the only one I see doing wrong is you.

Remember that if someone tries to overtake you in a corner and is up along side of you, you have to make room for that car. If you're first into the corner then I can understand you're upset but in both of the cases you're showing the other car is ahead, or at least along side.

So, I can't see the AI doing anything wrong here. In the third clip which as you say is both AI there is no contact, not as far as I can see at least. All done within regulation.

 

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Just now, Lakrits said:

I see nothing strange here. What is it you want, that the AI can't overtake you?

The second clip I just don't get at all, it doesn't show anything of what made you end up in that situation. To me it looks like you're the one not wanting to concede.

Divebombing isn't an illegal move as long as you can follow through and take the corner legally. I'm sorry if you don't like being overtaken by AI but as MichaelDecker says, the only one I see doing wrong is you.

Remember that if someone tries to overtake you in a corner and is up along side of you, you have to make room for that car. If you're first into the corner then I can understand you're upset but in both of the cases you're showing the other car is ahead, or at least along side.

So, I can't see the AI doing anything wrong here. In the third clip which as you say is both AI there is no contact, not as far as I can see at least. All done within regulation.

 

Read the post right above yours, please. It describes everything going on in the clips.

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Posted (edited)

I did. But in the case of the first video it's not a matter of holding your line. He's already along side, even a bit ahead of you. You have to make room for him there, which you don't and you end up with contact. And to be frank, you're not showing the entire corner. From what I can see you're the one at fault.

As for the second clip. I can only take your word for what happened, the clip doesn't say anything at all so it's impossible to comment on that.

Edited by Lakrits

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In certain situations the AI just wants to get back to the racing line, no matter what and completely disregarding that you are next to them. Zero situational awareness. The second clip is a good example, Stroll just really really wants to get back on the track, trying to steer left.

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21 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

I see nothing strange here. What is it you want, that the AI can't overtake you?

The second clip I just don't get at all, it doesn't show anything of what made you end up in that situation. To me it looks like you're the one not wanting to concede.

Divebombing isn't an illegal move as long as you can follow through and take the corner legally. I'm sorry if you don't like being overtaken by AI but as MichaelDecker says, the only one I see doing wrong is you.

Remember that if someone tries to overtake you in a corner and is up along side of you, you have to make room for that car. If you're first into the corner then I can understand you're upset but in both of the cases you're showing the other car is ahead, or at least along side.

So, I can't see the AI doing anything wrong here. In the third clip which as you say is both AI there is no contact, not as far as I can see at least. All done within regulation.

 

I think you misunderstand a few points. First, I love it when the AI shows aggressiveness in trying to pass. The part were I'm less in love is when the AI shows signs of stupidity. Case in point: "if someone tries to overtake you in a corner and is up alongside of you, you have to make room for that car".  ABSOLUTELY! I couldn't have said it better myself. Now explain to me: how does one make room on the inside of a curve? By turning more to the inside of said curve. I don't have a problem with dive bombing. He had the space, which I stupidly gave him and he took it. The part where it all falls apart is that he starts to turn in over the curb, I think; Ok, I have enough space to keep right next to him and then he abruptly turns out towards me making contact.  

I shouldn't have to mention that F1 is an incredibly fast discipline. Things happen in a fraction of a second, and so your thinking has to be as quick. When I see someone turn in, and I'm next to them, my natural reaction is to turn in with them. Otherwise I'm turning wide and ending up off track, losing precious milliseconds. So when I turn in and the AI immediately turns OUT towards me instead of WITH the curve, I don't know how to react fast enough to avoid getting entangled. Again, could I have given him more space than I did, probably. If I had known, which I do now. In fact, I was able to finish that track because I gave up trying to race and just let every AI car just get ahead so I could finish last.

The other point I was trying to make is that I've never had any issues before on any track since F1 2016. This track, this time, is the first time I've experienced something like this since F1 2015 where the AI was just globally stupid on every track. They'd wantonly just drive THROUGH you if you happened to be slower. No matter what line you chose, the AI would decide to take you out rather than drive around you in any situation. Hanoi is the ONLY track were I've experienced this type of behaviour, so I had to ask. Obviously, looks like not many people have the same issues I did. Or maybe you play on a different difficulty level. 

Which is strange, because I haven't even set the AI on a very high difficulty; it's at 90% (Master) in order to help me become acclimated with the driving on a gamepad. I just thought it was weird and frustrating that the AI drivers act like 12 yr old hooligans in an online race, just trying to ram you off the track when they get the opportunity. LOL

So again, aggressive overtaking? Fine! Dive bombing? Beautiful! Stupidly turning OUT when you have the inside of a curve? I don't know... 

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I understand everything. I'm just commenting from the information that you're giving. From what I can see the AI haven't done anything wrong. If you could have shown the entire sequence, a bit from the straight before the corner as well as you did in the third clip, I could have gotten more information. Maybe my view would have changed, maybe not. So, that's where we are.

Though, I've seen plenty of overtakes like that in real F1 during the 45 year's I've been watching it. Sometimes it's been a brilliant move, sometimes not and it's ended up in tears for one or both of the drivers. It's a little bit like I drive myself, you have to take some chances or you will never move up the field. If they've managed to program that into the AI then I'm all for it.

As for the second clip I think ragequit1 hit the nail. Don't get me wrong. I think the AI is extremely dumb in some situations and I've been pushed off the racing line (Monaco) from behind myself and been the one getting the penalty so yes, there are faults in how the AI behaves at times (like coming out of the pits and blocking you as you come on a quali hotlap). This however, as far as I can see, isn't one of them. Still, the AI in this game is the best AI I've seen so far in any game. I haven't tried them all though but in a pure F1 game definately the best yet.

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Oh absolutely. I am thoroughly enjoying the game and I think the AI is some of the best I've experienced in a long time. But just at Hanoi for some reason, it all went **** up real quick. Hopefully it goes back to normal for Shanghai. The track isn't as closed in there, and there's many more unique types of turns rather than just early/late apexes all over the place. 😉

As for the 1st clip, I thought I had caught a few seconds before where it shows me following the optimal line of entry into that corner, while the AI chose to ride the curb, which is why I believed it was going to just ride it all the way and cut to the inside. Instead it insisted on swerving to the outside and come into contact with me. And as you saw in the 3rd clip, even when I completely backed off and let it through, it STILL did the same thing only this time it did it to an AI driver and not me. 

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The thing with that particular corner in Hanoi is that there's no other corner like it on any circuit. Especially not with such a long straight just before it. It's bound to cause unusual situations that you just don't see anywhere else. With such a long fast straight and suddenly such a sharp extremely slow hairpin it invites dive bombs. So, I don't think the AI behaves any differently than on any other circuit, it's just so unique in it's design.

I thought I'd hate Hanoi but after doing my first race there I kinda like it. It's challenging and the difference between a really fast and a really slow lap is marginal. You can easily gain or lose a lot of time in quite a few places. And then there's the fact that due to the current situation we got to drive it before the real F1 drivers.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, VeNOM2099 said:

Hi everyone. I haven't posted in the F1 community forums in a long, long time. But I had to after "trying" to finish a race at the Vietnam Hanoi track. 

I had all kinds of trouble having a clean race there. I think I had to restart the session at least two dozen times because the AI was behaving so erratically on that track. At first I thought it was just me and having the slowest car on the track. I'm not the best driver and my car is definitely one of the slowest (I mean who's isn't at the start of My Team career). But I caught the AI doing the same thing to it's AI brethren too. 

Here is a clip of what I'm talking about: 

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104337699

We're a bunch of cars at the hairpin. The AI in the Alpha Tauri clearly dive bombs to get in (nice). But then instead of trying to hold the inside, it just veers into me. To make matters worse, you'd think that after coming into contact with my car, it would try to correct the situation and steer away, but no. It just kept FORCING me off the track. At first I thought it was me, but I noticed it kept doing the same thing. And not just to me, but to other AI cars, so it's not that MY driving was bad, it's that the AI seems to be extremely volatile on that track. 

Here's another one: 

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104338045

I had the inside at Turn 1, but the AI Lance Stroll decided, since he had a faster car than I did, to pass me on the outside. Wonderful! But as I let off the gas and try to avoid contact he just turns into me and causes a crash. Now since I was going to restart anyways, I decided to see what the AI would do if I just let it happen. And as you can see, the AI doesn't even pretend to be bothered about our cars being tangled. It doesn't back off. It doesn't try to correct its line. It just pushes my car along with his. I'm not even accelerating or doing anything. I'm just waiting for the AI to stop and give us a chance to come untangled. Doesn't happen...

Again, I thought it was just me and my driving. But then I caught the AI doing the same thing to the other AI:

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/104338411

Here I back off at the hairpin, having learned what happens if you even remotely try to challenge it on this track. The AI goes for the dive bomb, and then as it enters the turn, instead of slowing down and turning into it, it just veers towards the outside right into another AI driver's car. Dude...

I've only seen the AI act like this at this particular track. I've driven on others, including Monaco just fine. But the AI is balistic at Hanoi!! I hope there's some sort of fix for the AI lines because this circuit is now one I'm going to avoid going forward in F1 2020's career modes. It's just frustrating and not fun at all. 

Anybody else experience this or is it just me. (Please tell me it's just me!) LOL. 

 

I honestly see something. The AI is divebombing with an unrealistic angle in the third video. And shows lack of awareness of those in front of the overtaken car.

Car A, Car B and Car C.

C dives on the inside of B hitting A while it's turning or in the middle of the turn. It's classic F1 2020 AI, it also happens in Brazil, USA, Bahrain. It happens so regularly that now I'm expecting it. Hanoi makes it even worse but sadly it is what it is. I doubt there is a fix for it. The AI can clearly see only who's in front and who's behind.

The problem is that there are too many things the AI should take into account. In that instance the AI should have thought "I'm overtaking the user with an aggressive angle, so I have to slow down even more, there's not a lot of room on the exit and the inside kerb is high so it could cause instability and understeer, plus there are other cars in front that are turning". For as much as I hate those kind of moments, but it's too much to ask...

Edited by sirio994

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