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5 minutes ago, Blent said:

You're incredibly naive if you think the games industry is somehow one of the worst examples of business practices compared to literally hundreds of other industries.

£70 for a broken game, which will take months to fix and on top of that micro transactions galore. You’re incredibly naive to not see a problem with that. 

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1 minute ago, CactusJax90 said:

£70 for a broken game, which will take months to fix and on top of that micro transactions galore. You’re incredibly naive to not see a problem with that. 

Where's the micro transactions galore? Almost everything is obtainable by literally playing the game (also since you preordered it, you already have enough coins to buy the VIP pass...). Also, no won't take months to fix at all. I have "only" 40 hours of game time and know plenty of other people that have played for 100h+ already and have barely experienced problems.

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2 minutes ago, Costa said:

Where's the micro transactions galore? Almost everything is obtainable by literally playing the game (also since you preordered it, you already have enough coins to buy the VIP pass...). Also, no won't take months to fix at all. I have "only" 40 hours of game time and know plenty of other people that have played for 100h+ already and have barely experienced problems.

Nope, as I haven’t received a single pitcoin from pre ordering. Happy for the people that somehow haven’t experienced problems, wish I could say the same as I once again stare at a screen that has stopped responding. 

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8 minutes ago, CactusJax90 said:

£70 for a broken game, which will take months to fix and on top of that micro transactions galore. You’re incredibly naive to not see a problem with that. 

I have problems with things I find to be unreasonable or unjustifiable. I have the ability to use my knowledge, experience and good judgement to decide what is deserving of criticism and what I am prepared to accept or let slide because I can understand the bigger picture.

I can wholeheartedly say, having first played Formula 1 on the PSX back in 1996, I am more than satisfied with the game I've received for the money I've spent. 

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18 minutes ago, CactusJax90 said:

Also been playing games since the early 90s. The difference now is developers know they can get away with releasing an unfinished game. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs the amount of people on here defending them. Imagine any other industry where you can knowingly sell something broken.

I would agree with you... If they didn't fix things. Within days of reports of issues, there were fixes launched. The support cycle has changed and Codemasters is not the only company that has to do this.

And like I said before... If this is such an issue for you, why did you buy the game right away and not wait? People could wait until September to buy the game, or even later. I bought the game right away because, and this may shock some people, I enjoy playing it.

I don't know what's worse, people selling a game knowing they will patch it, or people expecting perfection upon release. Unlike some games that take years in production, the production cycle of yearly sports games are months. The support cycle which used to be non existent (because there was no ability to patch, not because the games were perfect) had a full year.

And this is not the only industry knowingly selling something broken. Apple knowingly released software updates knowing it would affect performance of phones. That's just one example.

And if some people don't think EA releases games that need patches instantly... You obviously don't play enough EA games. Day One patches are very prevalent in EA games and even those have issues.

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23 minutes ago, CactusJax90 said:

It’s a pretty sad state of affairs the amount of people on here defending them. Imagine any other industry where you can knowingly sell something broken.

Bought a brand new car for several thousand pounds. Transpired that model upon release had a number of issues. This happens frequently in the car industry.

I know of handful of people that purchased the same gaming wheel and pedal set and on all of them the pedals failed. Its a known issue yet they are still sold and commonly bought.

Point remains the same though, if you know the product is likely to be broken either don't buy it or if it was given to you as a present then pass it back to them to ask for a refund. After all, why would you accept a birthday present you know to be broken in your opinion.

Let's face it, its a slight over reaction. Just be thankful it isn't still the 90's as you would be stuck with the Silver Mercedes livery for the duration of the game.

 

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2 minutes ago, boojar4 said:

I would agree with you... If they didn't fix things. Within days of reports of issues, there were fixes launched. The support cycle has changed and Codemasters is not the only company that has to do this.

And like I said before... If this is such an issue for you, why did you buy the game right away and not wait? People could wait until September to buy the game, or even later. I bought the game right away because, and this may shock some people, I enjoy playing it.

I don't know what's worse, people selling a game knowing they will patch it, or people expecting perfection upon release. Unlike some games that take years in production, the production cycle of yearly sports games are months. The support cycle which used to be non existent (because there was no ability to patch, not because the games were perfect) had a full year.

And this is not the only industry knowingly selling something broken. Apple knowingly released software updates knowing it would affect performance of phones. That's just one example.

And if some people don't think EA releases games that need patches instantly... You obviously don't play enough EA games. Day One patches are very prevalent in EA games and even those have issues.

Stopped buying EA games a long time ago. Codemasters however I always want to give the benefit of the doubt, firstly because they make F1 games and I don’t see a long list of developers queuing to do it if they didn’t. Secondly because of their history, Micro Machines, TOCA, Colin McCrae etc, have been a massive part of my life. I just feel incredibly let down by them this year especially, sorry if people don’t feel the same. And for the people really enjoying their F1 2020 experience so far, I’m genuinely happy for them, wish I could say the same.  

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6 minutes ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Bought a brand new car for several thousand pounds. Transpired that model upon release had a number of issues. This happens frequently in the car industry.

I know of handful of people that purchased the same gaming wheel and pedal set and on all of them the pedals failed. Its a known issue yet they are still sold and commonly bought.

Point remains the same though, if you know the product is likely to be broken either don't buy it or if it was given to you as a present then pass it back to them to ask for a refund. After all, why would you accept a birthday present you know to be broken in your opinion.

Let's face it, its a slight over reaction. Just be thankful it isn't still the 90's as you would be stuck with the Silver Mercedes livery for the duration of the game.

 

Bought the game from the PS Store, contacted Playstation for a refund, unfortunately as I’d already downloaded the game and opened the application I wasn’t entitled to one. Also how on earth would I know it to be broken? I presume a game is sold in a playable state.

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4 minutes ago, CactusJax90 said:

Bought the game from the PS Store, contacted Playstation for a refund, unfortunately as I’d already downloaded the game and opened the application I wasn’t entitled to one. Also how on earth would I know it to be broken? I presume a game is sold in a playable state.

Your prior post suggests you continue to purchase codemasters games because they produce F1 games. Therefore you would know from prior experience from previous years that there tends to be some bugs upon release?  

So why assume differently? Why not just wait, read reviews and purchase when it is at a state that satisfies you? 

I appreciate people expect a high standard of product upon release but what i don't understand is people who continually do the same thing year after year knowing what the expected outcome will be and then complain about it when it is in their own hands to change the outcome by simply waiting for the patches and reading reviews and buying it later on.

 

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2 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Could it be that games in the 90's were a little less complex than those of today?

Don't buy the "games are more complex these days" excuse. Yes games are more complex, but the developers are also more skilled. You wouldn't take on a project with inferior skills to what the job requires would you? If you programme a game to be complex then you should know how to code that properly knowing how codes/programmes do and should interact with each other for the end result to be what you expected. Little bugs that could've been missed through testing are fine with me but when a bug pops up that is easily found from just playing the game and is obvious, seems like a lack of attention to detail to me. This isn't just aimed at Codies but all developers these days.

 

 

1 hour ago, KNT2011 said:

Some serious cases of rose tinted specs going on here... 

Games in the 90's ... are not even remotely comparable to what we are looking at now. Can people seriously be saying they didn't ship with bugs? It's great you don't remember them.. but come on. 

F1 2005 shipped with the possibility to win career on the hardest level in a Minardi. Couldn't ever be patched, just the way it was. completely crippled the mode. 

F1 2006 shipped with numerous AI and balancing issues. Couldn't lose at Bahrain, couldn't win at Suzuka, just had to live with it. Couldn't be patched to balance. 

Is it fun to find a bug in a new game? Of course not. But having plaed F1 2019 recently, that game is superb, polished, well balanced and apart from some minor complaints, largely issue free. 

That will be 2020 in due time. 

I am thankful that these days, games are not released permanently broken. 

No offence but I found this funny. You quoted about games in the 90s yet used examples from 2000s.

 

Also, about the bold statement, if you count a bug as the game being broken (which I do), then yes they are left broken at the end of the support cycle before they then turn their attention to the next game. I don't think I've had a game in this generation where it launched with bugs and was finally 100% fixed. It's a waste of money to the devs to completely fix the game.  I always see patches released to fix bugs that end up creating new bugs. Don't get me wrong, they are good at fixing the big bugs that do prevent you from playing or completing the game but do not fix every broken thing. At least they are "playable" by the end of the cycle.

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Some of the biggest companies in the industry (i.e. R*, Ubisoft) have released games that aren't 100% ready and have had to patch multiple times afterwards. Look at the amount of complaints because Cyberpunk has been pushed back again & again. Today's generation of gamers are never happy. At least with Codies they are being as transparent as they can. Never in my experience have I ever had this level of communication with the devs of a game pre or post release. I for one find it refreshing that while it might be a bit broken, there is a constantly monitored forum for us to report said issues so that they can be looked into and fixed. Regarding the template and evidence required, why wouldn't you want all of the data available to you in one format, with supporting evidence? If you've ever worked with any level of data collection / processing, this is a must. 

Oh yeah, and then there's covid... I'm sure if the global pandemic hadn't happened, the game might be a bit more polished. But I guess that's CM fault too? 

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1 hour ago, martbloke said:

Don't buy the "games are more complex these days" excuse. Yes games are more complex, but the developers are also more skilled. You wouldn't take on a project with inferior skills to what the job requires would you? If you programme a game to be complex then you should know how to code that properly knowing how codes/programmes do and should interact with each other for the end result to be what you expected. Little bugs that could've been missed through testing are fine with me but when a bug pops up that is easily found from just playing the game and is obvious, seems like a lack of attention to detail to me. This isn't just aimed at Codies but all developers these days.

 

 

It's not really to buy. It really is fact.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, games in say the 90's were fairly basic. Using the example of say the original Microprose GP, from recollection the game just had individual races or a championship. No fancy action sequences pre/post race interviews etc. Set you car up and away you go. Therefore limited things you need to test.

These days you have more complex physics, pre/post race action sequences, ERS/DRS/SAS Rich/medium/Lean fuel, more tyre variations, Grand Prix mode, Multiplayer, My Team , Career etc etc , changable weather, XP points etc.

Point being, yes the developers are more skilled, but the more things built within a game the bigger the test team required and i doubt codemasters have infinite resource to test every little detail and therefore the more chance of bugs we be found early doors. Patience is needed.

Edited by SIMRACER123
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I remember the good old days when my FIFA-career could freeze after a couple of seasons and hundreds of hours of playing time. Absolutely devastated when it happened, but I also knew that it was just the way it was. You lose everything, start over again fully knowing that it may happen again (which ofcourse it did). This were game braking bugs that could not and would never be adressed. 

Now, I have a problem with parc fermé not working properly. Nothing to bad, just not the way it should be. I file a bug report and have full faith that this issue will be solved. I can now chose to wait until they patch it, or just play on and live with the issue. Such a nice time to live in, isn't it?

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I would say i don't want to have any bugs in a game after release and i will not make any excuses about it for F1 2020. I buy every F1 game at release. Why? First of all over the last years I maybe encounter 10% of the stated bugs (or less). So i think it's ok for me. Than i never had, in the last years, a game breaking bug. The same for 2020. I can play the game and i have a lot of fun with it.

Is it all super balanced until now? No. Does it prevent me from having fun? No.

Everybody has to make his own decision. What i don't understand are people which buy the game every year at release and complaining afterwards that it's the same every year and the game is unplayable. I don't get it. Why do you buy it then?

I don't want to convince someone. All i can say is it is ok for me and i have fun.

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I am definitely never buying a codemaster game for the full price again, the amount of bugs this game is having is honestly something i have never seem in any other, and so many of them are so obvious that i cannot image how did it get trought QA.

now they released a patch saying the gearbox wear was fixed... and it isn't !!!!! low textures everywhere in ps4 and etc etc etc

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40 minutes ago, SIMRACER123 said:

It's not really to buy. It really is fact.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, games in say the 90's were fairly basic. Using the example of say the original Microprose GP, from recollection the game just had individual races or a championship. No fancy action sequences pre/post race interviews etc. Set you car up and away you go. Therefore limited things you need to test.

These days you have more complex physics, pre/post race action sequences, ERS/DRS/SAS Rich/medium/Lean fuel, more tyre variations, Grand Prix mode, Multiplayer, My Team , Career etc etc , changable weather, XP points etc.

Point being, yes the developers are more skilled, but the more things built within a game the bigger the test team required and i doubt codemasters have infinite resource to test every little detail and therefore the more chance of bugs we be found early doors. Patience is needed.

I know I'm nit picking here but Grand Prix and Grand Prix 2 both had full championship seasons plus several separate modes such as quick races etc. They both had cut scenes too. Jacques Villeneuve used GP2 in 1996 to learn the tracks and described the handling as extremely realistic.

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5 minutes ago, Rafik77 said:

I am definitely never buying a codemaster game for the full price again, the amount of bugs this game is having is honestly something i have never seem in any other, and so many of them are so obvious that i cannot image how did it get trought QA.

now they released a patch saying the gearbox wear was fixed... and it isn't !!!!! low textures everywhere in ps4 and etc etc etc

Yes I wouldn't mind the odd bug but several huge ones that spoil the career modes is not good enough. Not when we pay so much money.

This game is the best one for actual gameplay and physics but by far the worst for bugs, excluding the corrupt save issue from f1 2010 (damn that was a mean bug lol).

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4 minutes ago, 1henryw said:

I know I'm nit picking here but Grand Prix and Grand Prix 2 both had full championship seasons plus several separate modes such as quick races etc. They both had cut scenes too. Jacques Villeneuve used GP2 in 1996 to learn the tracks and described the handling as extremely realistic.

He also used Formula 1 on the PlayStation.

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41 minutes ago, SIMRACER123 said:

It's not really to buy. It really is fact.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, games in say the 90's were fairly basic. Using the example of say the original Microprose GP, from recollection the game just had individual races or a championship. No fancy action sequences pre/post race interviews etc. Set you car up and away you go. Therefore limited things you need to test.

These days you have more complex physics, pre/post race action sequences, ERS/DRS/SAS Rich/medium/Lean fuel, more tyre variations, Grand Prix mode, Multiplayer, My Team , Career etc etc , changable weather, XP points etc.

Point being, yes the developers are more skilled, but the more things built within a game the bigger the test team required and i doubt codemasters have infinite resource to test every little detail and therefore the more chance of bugs we be found early doors. Patience is needed.

 

No I get that they are more complex, that is not what I was debating; it's using this as an excuse which is wrong.

 

If you build something more complex, then your company should have the skills and infrastructure to be able to support what you produce to make sure your final product works and that includes a testing team to do so. If not then don't build it that complex. The reason they don't have the team that you suggest to test their product fully is down to profit. They want to make as much money as possible so where can they cut back? Testing of course. They have a limited beta for their consumers to test things for them because they decide not to employ that resource. They have those that purchase at launch or pre-order for early access to test the full game for them because they can patch things over the internet. Basically build and test 80-90% of the product (the main functionality) leaving 10-20% to be tested by their paying consumers cutting that cost massively as there is no remuneration required for them.

 

You're basically saying that because games are more complex these days that they can get away with more (larger) issues and we should show them more leniency. Not in the slightest. It is their decision to not fully test their product and when things go wrong, they should be held accountable. These are issues being found by just playing the game. Things that would've cropped their heads had they play-tested their product fully. You cannot tell me they would never have found the multiple tyre compound disqualification issue had they not tested it fully?

 

It's a product at the end of the day sold at full price to people and so should be a fully working, or near to fully working (minimal and non-game breaking issues across their entire line of platforms), product. But they are not these days because people give developers slack and keep pre-ordering or buying at launch every year even though they slammed the company the year before for issues. This industry is crazy! 

 

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8 minutes ago, martbloke said:

 

No I get that they are more complex, that is not what I was debating; it's using this as an excuse which is wrong.

 

If you build something more complex, then your company should have the skills and infrastructure to be able to support what you produce to make sure your final product works and that includes a testing team to do so. If not then don't build it that complex. The reason they don't have the team that you suggest to test their product fully is down to profit. They want to make as much money as possible so where can they cut back? Testing of course. They have a limited beta for their consumers to test things for them because they decide not to employ that resource. They have those that purchase at launch or pre-order for early access to test the full game for them because they can patch things over the internet. Basically build and test 80-90% of the product (the main functionality) leaving 10-20% to be tested by their paying consumers cutting that cost massively as there is no remuneration required for them.

 

You're basically saying that because games are more complex these days that they can get away with more (larger) issues and we should show them more leniency. Not in the slightest. It is their decision to not fully test their product and when things go wrong, they should be held accountable. These are issues being found by just playing the game. Things that would've cropped their heads had they play-tested their product fully. You cannot tell me they would never have found the multiple tyre compound disqualification issue had they not tested it fully?

 

It's a product at the end of the day sold at full price to people and so should be a fully working, or near to fully working (minimal and non-game breaking issues across their entire line of platforms), product. But they are not these days because people give developers slack and keep pre-ordering or buying at launch every year even though they slammed the company the year before for issues. This industry is crazy! 

 

Well said 🙂

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In this topic you have people recounted the times they faced bugs on games back in the 90's and either couldn't finish them or had to (hope for and) wait for a patch to come in a CD appended to a magazine. I definitely remember that. Yet you have people here dismissing those experiences because they didn't go through it.

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5 hours ago, 1henryw said:

I never had a game I couldnt finish cus of bugs. Nor do I remember game breaking bugs with CD patches. N64, gamecube, xbox 1, PC games, it just wasn't really a thing. I remember Grand Prix 4 used to crash to desktop occasionally but nothing game breaking.

And then we get to F1 2020:

1 hour ago, Rafik77 said:

I am definitely never buying a codemaster game for the full price again, the amount of bugs this game is having is honestly something i have never seem in any other, and so many of them are so obvious that i cannot image how did it get trought QA.

now they released a patch saying the gearbox wear was fixed... and it isn't !!!!! low textures everywhere in ps4 and etc etc etc

As I said on my first post here, doesn't it boil down to it? All the bugs I encountered were reported and you can see on my history. Minor ones. I did not ever come across the DSQ for incorrect tyre compounds, the unavailability of contracts on the drivers market, the excessive gearbox wear and all the other infamous ones. 

Well if my experience as been all fun no frustration so far, why would people expect me and others like me to condone this unloading on Codemasters? What I have is a game with brilliant gameplay (not my words, just CTRL + F in this thread) and no serious bugs. Why on earth would I complain about not getting my money's worth?

The same goes to how these things pass through QA. They're not that ubiquitous as the constant posting make them seem to be.  

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A few people have mentioned pitcoins and microtransactions as major issues with the game but to me these are pretty trivial in that the game is completely playable without these. There ARE major bugs that are ruining the game for many but not this. I'm thinking of the online services error totally obscuring the view in online races for example.

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6 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Being a little older than some here it does make me smile seeing these comments.

Years ago before patches were a thing, games would be released and if it had bugs you were stuffed. These days games companies can rectify these issues. These games are complex to make and perhaps you should be grateful you live in an age that improvements can be made so that your money isn't wasted.

Equally, you've been around long enough to know that after initial release of these F1 titles a number of bugs crop up so rather than complain about that just wait a month or two and purchase the game when it's in a state suitable to you.

I am also a little older than some here, but why should we wait a month or 2 to buy the game because it may be bugged on release?

Exactly right, tech moves on, digital will be the way forward, but gamers only buy a game couple days early, not weeks or months unless on early known bugged versions and they should release the game couple months later with the bugs ironed out.

We pay for a full finished game that isnt finished.

Oh and still waiting for my Pitcoins Codies, when is that being sorted?

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Cut my teeth playing Pong, so I have seen RPG games that after 100 hours could not be finished because of a bug, games that had system requirements that could only be met by 5% of the computers on the market, and games that were perfect from the time the diskette went into the drive.

I was finding (pre patch 1.05) the bugs tolerable and the pre-order value excellent. Yes I am still waiting on the pitcoins, but there has been nothing I wanted to purchase anyway.

And while the patch has created a mess with my pedals/camera views that i cannot fix, I expect CM to sort it out.

Given the game was released during COVID, I think it was pretty much job well done.

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3 hours ago, xboxden said:

I am also a little older than some here, but why should we wait a month or 2 to buy the game because it may be bugged on release?

Exactly right, tech moves on, digital will be the way forward, but gamers only buy a game couple days early, not weeks or months unless on early known bugged versions and they should release the game couple months later with the bugs ironed out.

We pay for a full finished game that isnt finished.

Oh and still waiting for my Pitcoins Codies, when is that being sorted?

Your view certainly isn't wrong.

My point really is that generally speaking, the F1 games pretty much every edition have had bugs upon release.

Whether someone chooses to accept the bugs to begin with or not is largely irrelevant to my point.

Given this has been an issue every year, why buy a game on release that historically has issues to begin with every year then complain about it?

How does the saying go about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.....

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