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The effect of a full tank on car setup

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Posted (edited)

Need some guidance please..

When playing 50% or 100% races... obviously you will need to adjust your driving as the car gets lighter through the race. Likewise for tires.

But as a general rule I’m interested in what adjustments would help the heavier car. It feels a bit understeery through middle to end of corners.

Would it be better to feel that the car is more oversteery and there is more risk of losing the back end when you are using a TT setup or in TT mode (with a view to a better long race setup). I see so many setups with higher numbers for the rear anti roll bars, but in TT mode if I increase this then my car is pretty lively on acceleration out of corners and takes some taming. I have to keep both anti roll bars pretty close 5-6 currently. Springs set at 3-4. Even 5-7 ARB’s seem to be lively for me. So these setups with 3-9 I don’t understand why they don’t feel right for me... I noticed that changing from 2-3 wings to 4-5 wings helped with the understeer I was feeling on a fuller tank.

 

Anyway I’ve tried to learn as much as I can about the setups but it’s ongoing haha.

Edited by RentonT09

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I really believe that changing driving style for the race is better than a change in setup. Unless, the race is in rain conditions. Brake earlier in the race, especially on 50% and 100% races, that should make it easier to hit the corners properly. If you are struggling with understeer while off the throttle, then lower the differential of throttle. I have mine at 50%, as that gives me the maximum rotation when I am off the throttle. However, this comes at the cost of making the car unstable while you are not on the throttle. Keep in mind that the differential off throttle cannot be adjusted unlike the on throttle differential. Therefore, you’ll need to find the correct balance. You can also increase the front anti roll bar a bit. 
 

If you are getting understeer while on the throttle, then you can increase the on throttle differential. Keep in mind that increasing the on throttle differential gives you a chance to get more wheelspin, unless you can control the input of the throttle to prevent that. 
 

By the way, is this in general, or for a specific track?

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Posted (edited)

 

I don't personally follow TT set ups and i'm certainly not a fan of the high rear ARB.

Perhaps as a short term measure whilst your learning set ups, consider sticking to ARB 5/6 like you suggest as you seem happy with that and perhaps increase the front wing by 1 at the start of the race to help with turn in and then in the MFD during the early part of the race remove it back down one click so it isn't too loose so it gets changed at your fuel stop as your car would have burnt off some fuel by then and will be lighter and will turn in easier.

Edited by SIMRACER123
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Yea just talking in general.

Agree with changing driving style.. I just wanted to know how the car should behave on a light tank for a balance race setup. (So should it feel more oversteery or wild) or are we saying that it should feel perfect and we just adjust driving only so brake earlier etc like you say.

If we completely ignore tire heat and deg when looking at TT setups... would you make many changes to the suspension settings and wings to account for a long race setup. Because I’m thinking the suspension and ARB’s  must be affected by weight??

 

Looking for balance is the key and trying to find a general rule of thumb Regarding weight to help me with adjustments. Would a bigger offset on your anti roll bars behave differently under a full tank (Going from 5-6 to 3-9 for example). Or is it more just the stiffness itself (going from 5-6 to 7-8)

 

thanks for replies 

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Posted (edited)

Assuming its correctly factored into the game physics, ride height would be a factor too. Under heavy fuel the car would be more likely to be bottoming out if its too low.

Likewise it can become a bit tail happy once the fuel has burnt off as the rear of the car would be lighter, and technically speaking, sitting higher than it did at the start altering the downforce.

However, whether that's correctly built into the physics here i'm not sure as i havent tested enough on 100% races. Other people will be able to give you a better response regarding ride height i imagine.

Edited by SIMRACER123
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Agree totally that on 50% and 100% races break slightly earlier for corners, far smoother that way for me even though I’m like Ricardo on been a later braker still find better race if brake earlier early on.

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1 hour ago, RentonT09 said:

It feels a bit understeery through middle to end of corners.

I wouldn't go about changing my setup just to account for extra fuel. I think that is properly addressed with adjusting your driving style as you go, assuming your setup is balanced and reasonable from the start. That said, if you're struggling with understeering mid corner after the apex, when you start to get back to applying throttle, you could remedy it by increasing the on-throttle differential on the fly, as drivers do in real life constantly.

Off topic but since Codemasters gave a realistic revamp to the ERS system and freed us from that constant fiddling that it had become on the top level meta of the game, I thought what people would gradually switch their button mappings to account for differential or brake bias in ERS' stead. That will be nice.

1 hour ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Assuming its correctly factored into the game physics, ride height would be a factor too. Under heavy fuel the car would be more likely to be bottoming out if its too low.

I think it is. David Greco has repeatedly warned against going too aggressive on ride height for risk of stalling the diffuser.

Ride height and spring stiffness go hand in hand too, for those unaware. Too soft of a setup with too low of a ride height will (or should) give you a Burning Man esque fireworks show coming out of your rear on those bumpy tracks. 

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4 minutes ago, marioho said:

I think it is. David Greco has repeatedly warned against going too aggressive on ride height for risk of stalling the diffuser.

Ride height and spring stiffness go hand in hand too, for those unaware. Too soft of a setup with too low of a ride height will (or should) give you a Burning Man esque fireworks show coming out of your rear on those bumpy tracks. 

Thats handy to know. Thanks.

Coming from an iracing background i tend to find the set up aspect a bit more enjoyable than most so the more of it that reacts as it should the better. I appreciate the game has it's limitations but from what i have seen on this years version there is a nice balance between fun and setting the car up and not getting too bogged down finding the correct set up.

It's just been interesting seeing how even one click of a change to something can produce so much time.

Speaking of bumpy tracks, the one thing missing from this game really is someway of identifying from data that the car is too low. I mean, as nice as it is establishing that by digging yourself out the nearest kitty litter or tyre barrier, it would be handy to know without needing to write the car off first 😀

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Posted (edited)

@SIMRACER123 you hit it squarely on the head twice, mate.

  1. Yes, for the first time I felt like a single click on the sliders or a 1-2% drop on the diffs made a difference in the handling. Granted I was way more of a noob on F1 2019 but the difference was made present from my last race on last year game to my first on F1 2020.
  2. Would love to get more feedback for setting up the ride height properly. Looks like even the telemetry side of things could use some tweaking. 

Edit: Chances are you'd probably enjoy reading the pinned Q&A thread with David here on this forum. It even has a handy summary, courtesy of the mods!

Edited by marioho
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4 hours ago, RentonT09 said:

Yea just talking in general.

Agree with changing driving style.. I just wanted to know how the car should behave on a light tank for a balance race setup. (So should it feel more oversteery or wild) or are we saying that it should feel perfect and we just adjust driving only so brake earlier etc like you say.

If we completely ignore tire heat and deg when looking at TT setups... would you make many changes to the suspension settings and wings to account for a long race setup. Because I’m thinking the suspension and ARB’s  must be affected by weight??

 

Looking for balance is the key and trying to find a general rule of thumb Regarding weight to help me with adjustments. Would a bigger offset on your anti roll bars behave differently under a full tank (Going from 5-6 to 3-9 for example). Or is it more just the stiffness itself (going from 5-6 to 7-8)

 

thanks for replies 

Somehow in My Team today at Vietnam, when the car was full with fuel, as I do 50% races, the car felt a lot more stable in comparison to qualifying. Particularly under braking, as the rear wanted to slide whenever I would brake heavily, and turn suddenly to carry a lot of speed into the apex. However, with a full tank of fuel, 28.5 laps, the car felt extremely stable, and I was able to get 6th place in the race.. Thanks to a retirement from Leclerc.

During that race, I used a time trial setup, that I tested by driving as Bottas in Grand Prix mode and a 50% race. It worked well when I drove with Bottas consistently. Therefore, I decided to use that setup for my team, and it gave the same results. I just changed the tyre pressures, and it seemed to work fine for me, and I was using 11 on both roll bars...

But yes, I normally adjust the suspension settings and tyre pressures depending on the track. Personally, I found out that changing suspension settings has had little effect on race pace, unless it is a huge change. For example, changing the fromt suspension from 11 to 1. Personally, it appears that changing my driving style has a larger effect than changing the setup. I tend to drive extremely differently in the race than in qualifying or time trial.

 

I have never tried having offsets with rollbars. Maybe I should to see the effects... At first glance, I am not confident on the results of having a front anti roll bar on 8, whilst the rear is at 3.. I think stability could be bad with that... But hey, testing is always the best solution to see what works for you...

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4 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Assuming its correctly factored into the game physics, ride height would be a factor too. Under heavy fuel the car would be more likely to be bottoming out if its too low.

Likewise it can become a bit tail happy once the fuel has burnt off as the rear of the car would be lighter, and technically speaking, sitting higher than it did at the start altering the downforce.

However, whether that's correctly built into the physics here i'm not sure as i havent tested enough on 100% races. Other people will be able to give you a better response regarding ride height i imagine.

I ran 1 front ride height and 4 rear ride height on My Team for the Vietnam race on 50%, and it felt comfortable on qualifying and race trim... I also had 11 on both anti roll bars... The car was unstable under heavy braking with change of directions, and I had to downshift slowly to prevent the rear from sliding. I did not want to change anything in the setup because it was able to extract laptime, as it gave me a lot of high speed rotation and great high speed change of direction. If you can seriously control the rear end of the cars, and prevent sliding, that is a massive advantage. 

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Posted (edited)

Adjusting the setup just for the full fuel tank isn't good. You want your car to feel the best mid race. Not at the beginning and not at the end.

Practically speaking there are no great setups for the start of the race. The car will almost always feel bad.

It also depends on your strategy. If you want to push at the start you need a setup that is decent with full fuel tank. But there are also races in which you start on mediums and the first few laps are just "survival mode" by nature.

For the first part of the race you don't want a car that wins you the race, you just want a car that doesn't lose you the race. This is why I'd say focus on stability issues and adjust your driving style to the understeer caused by weight and fuel...

Edited by sirio994
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Thanks, achieving the best car mid race is what I’m aiming for but I wanted to know what sensations feel and what adjustments change these feelings on a full tank compared to an empty tank so I can work from there.

It seems that generally feeling understeery on a full tank and oversteery on a light tank is the rule of thumb.

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8 hours ago, sirio994 said:

Adjusting the setup just for the full fuel tank isn't good. You want your car to feel the best mid race. Not at the beginning and not at the end.

Practically speaking there are no great setups for the start of the race. The car will almost always feel bad.

It also depends on your strategy. If you want to push at the start you need a setup that is decent with full fuel tank. But there are also races in which you start on mediums and the first few laps are just "survival mode" by nature.

For the first part of the race you don't want a car that wins you the race, you just want a car that doesn't lose you the race. This is why I'd say focus on stability issues and adjust your driving style to the understeer caused by weight and fuel...

Good lord. I hate it whenever the Medium or Hard tyre does not have any grip at the start of the race. Even though they show that tyre temperatures are within 85-100 degrees. The understeer, and sometimes the rear wanting to get lose is just crazy. I think starting on the softer compounds is more viable now compared to other games if you want to have decent grip at the start... Or pushing on the formation lap for tyre warm up..

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Krisperfectline said:

Good lord. I hate it whenever the Medium or Hard tyre does not have any grip at the start of the race. Even though they show that tyre temperatures are within 85-100 degrees. The understeer, and sometimes the rear wanting to get lose is just crazy. I think starting on the softer compounds is more viable now compared to other games if you want to have decent grip at the start... Or pushing on the formation lap for tyre warm up..

I hate it but at the same time I love it. I think starting compounds are very well balanced. And with dirty air is hard to overtake. So this year when you choose to start on mediums you have to take track position into account. Those on softs will have better grip and it won't be easy to get positions back once they'll start to drop off...

Edited by sirio994

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Some really good information in this thread (and others too). I wish there was a way to bookmark or subscribe to individual threads so that you can easily come back to them in the future as the need arises. It's a feature that is available on other forums so not sure why it's not on here,  unless I am missing something of course?

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