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Are you noticing AI drivers with soft tires are not outperforming those with medium?! Both in F1 and F2. Career and Grand Prix modes.


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I'm going through a full 100% laps F2 career while waiting for the liveries/performance updates.

In Azerbaijan sprint race, some drivers started with soft tires and they were racing at absolutely the same pace as those with medium, but pitted early (of course) without any advantage, destroying their races.

Then I started some Grand Prix races, also in 100% laps. In Spain, Bottas and Verstappen started with soft and others using medium, like me. Again, they were racing at the same exact pace as the others. Absolutely no advantage at all in the first laps.

Honestly, if this is a bug, it's really game breaking. Strategies don't make sense then.

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They altered how your car reacts when behind another car as 2019 edition didn’t take into account the dirty air effect when following another car and 2020 edition does. That then means less chance of overtaking when following another car unless you have good advantage over car in front.

 

have noticed tires for al drivers have less difference between them but for me I get so much more out of soft tires than medium( I’m a grip and braking type of driver than most out of top speed type).

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16 hours ago, ChristianAnsell said:

They altered how your car reacts when behind another car as 2019 edition didn’t take into account the dirty air effect when following another car and 2020 edition does. That then means less chance of overtaking when following another car unless you have good advantage over car in front.

 

have noticed tires for al drivers have less difference between them but for me I get so much more out of soft tires than medium( I’m a grip and braking type of driver than most out of top speed type).

Is there any official information about dirty air? I always wanted this! Really want to read more about. This is great!

About tires being less different in performance for the AI, this is really annoying me. We should expect that soft tires drivers could at least do better laps. Not having any advantage brings no strategy benefits. 

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On 7/28/2020 at 4:31 AM, marioho said:

@viniciusrsouza a bunch. Just today we got this thread (below) but if you want official official, there's David Greco himself on the pinned AMA commenting on it.

 

Thank you so much! This is so great! 

But now I'm really sad because there's an issue going on in F2 races, where all AI drivers start with unnecessary almost +10 extra laps of fuel, while we doesn't, and it's extremely easy to overtake them and win races, even using +100 difficulty level (whole in F1 this is an impossible difficulty for me).

Now knowing dirty air is a real thing, even this does not avoid F2 races being easy, since they have so much extra weight.

I'm doing a full F2 career with 100% laps, since this will let me wait for all liveries and performance updates before reaching F1. 

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9 minutes ago, LuigiPeceguini said:

Do they? Wow, that's...quite nonsense. Why on Earth would they do so?

F2 is completely broken. Take a look here:

In races, AI run with 8-10 extra laps of fuel, while we with +0.50 approximately. In qualifying, we go out with 7 laps of fuel, while AI just 3-4 as it should be.

Totally unplayable. Insanely difficult in practice and qualifying sessions. Insanely easy in races. 

 

 

Edited by viniciusrsouza
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3 hours ago, viniciusrsouza said:

F2 is completely broken. Take a look here:

In races, AI run with 8-10 extra laps of fuel, while we with +0.50 approximately. In qualifying, we go out with 7 laps of fuel, while AI just 3-4 as it should be.

Totally unplayable. Insanely difficult in practice and qualifying sessions. Insanely easy in races. 

 

 

What the hell.

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Just now, LuigiPeceguini said:

What the hell.

Just an update.

This issue happens when you have a complete qualifying session. If just one shot is used, we will also start with the same extra unnecessary fuel and not only the AI.

Also, in one shot qualifying we correctly run with only 2 laps fuel.

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Yes, I agree. The AI in career mode (F1) is not really benefitting from the soft tyres. On soft I am faster than the AI (When they also run on softs), on medium however the AI is much faster than me (when they run on mediums as well).

Edited by AllenB2609
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I think Codies have it down really well for tyres as there can be times in dry but cloudy cool conditions where the medium tyre performs better than the softs as happens in real racing. Conditions are key.

 

BUT the AI issue is different. I've noticed an AI out of traffic can go much faster on the right tyre but soon as they get behind someone then they go yellow flag mode. However they do have good attacking aggression. Test holding the AI back or giving them just the slightest of gaps and they'll gun for it. But they don't do this for other AI. Now it could be they are a little TOO intelligent as in they know exactly what corners to defend inside or outside as I've seen plenty of good attempts by faster AI to overtake BUT the defender always wins unless an extreme situation presents itself, rare mechanical issue possibly from pushing too hard too long? Or another AI causes a block or other similar issue to the defending AI. The last 3 races for me have been entirely yellow flag AI bar whoever is 2nd behind my 3 poles in a row. These 3 races I did accurate difficulty to my cars performance, slightly lower and super easy. All three times the 2nd car would do a Need For Speed style "Catch up" where even on super easy they'd fly along with me for the most part of the 1st lap even well ahead of the 3rd place AI. So its not just a case of max fuel and energy use but something in the coding that is screwing up the AI. The worst thing is getting an AI to react or evolve solely around the player.

 

They need to get their independence back like they did so well in 2018. Sure they fought maybe a little too much and sometimes ruined their own races but they at least took each car whether human or AI as equals and had great fights. Its much more staged now to the player. Though the starts are exciting and midfield starts for me are great fun. You can see the issue much clearer up front. The AI are aggressive in the wrong situations and wasteful of their boosts (when not cheating, seemingly limitless ERS etc). Especially the starts. Racing so hard they burn out harder! Bar the "cheating" AI closest to the player who seems to have far longer boosts than the other AI who fall back fast.

 

If they have a catch up system they need to dump that fast. The worst invention in gaming ever! More consistency in pace. Better tyre to situation consistency. And more human style AI overtaking, if the AI always know exactly what to do to defend (ERS perfect timing and perfect lines), and speed and talent mean nothing (yellow flag syndrome), then there will never be a real overtake opportunity. This stands even for the top teams struggling to overtake midfield teams (also regardless of tyre).

 

So to sum up. More consistent pace, more "human" defending. AI treating other AI the same as the player.

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1 hour ago, Carystus said:

I think Codies have it down really well for tyres as there can be times in dry but cloudy cool conditions where the medium tyre performs better than the softs as happens in real racing. Conditions are key.

 

BUT the AI issue is different. I've noticed an AI out of traffic can go much faster on the right tyre but soon as they get behind someone then they go yellow flag mode. However they do have good attacking aggression. Test holding the AI back or giving them just the slightest of gaps and they'll gun for it. But they don't do this for other AI. Now it could be they are a little TOO intelligent as in they know exactly what corners to defend inside or outside as I've seen plenty of good attempts by faster AI to overtake BUT the defender always wins unless an extreme situation presents itself, rare mechanical issue possibly from pushing too hard too long? Or another AI causes a block or other similar issue to the defending AI. The last 3 races for me have been entirely yellow flag AI bar whoever is 2nd behind my 3 poles in a row. These 3 races I did accurate difficulty to my cars performance, slightly lower and super easy. All three times the 2nd car would do a Need For Speed style "Catch up" where even on super easy they'd fly along with me for the most part of the 1st lap even well ahead of the 3rd place AI. So its not just a case of max fuel and energy use but something in the coding that is screwing up the AI. The worst thing is getting an AI to react or evolve solely around the player.

 

They need to get their independence back like they did so well in 2018. Sure they fought maybe a little too much and sometimes ruined their own races but they at least took each car whether human or AI as equals and had great fights. Its much more staged now to the player. Though the starts are exciting and midfield starts for me are great fun. You can see the issue much clearer up front. The AI are aggressive in the wrong situations and wasteful of their boosts (when not cheating, seemingly limitless ERS etc). Especially the starts. Racing so hard they burn out harder! Bar the "cheating" AI closest to the player who seems to have far longer boosts than the other AI who fall back fast.

 

If they have a catch up system they need to dump that fast. The worst invention in gaming ever! More consistency in pace. Better tyre to situation consistency. And more human style AI overtaking, if the AI always know exactly what to do to defend (ERS perfect timing and perfect lines), and speed and talent mean nothing (yellow flag syndrome), then there will never be a real overtake opportunity. This stands even for the top teams struggling to overtake midfield teams (also regardless of tyre).

 

So to sum up. More consistent pace, more "human" defending. AI treating other AI the same as the player.

I completely agree with your points here, I do feel there is something strange with the AI this year. They attack and overtake the player very well but just don’t seem to be able to do this against each other. It also seems to be an issue on some circuits more than others. For example I find Zandvoort and Hungaroring are amongst the worst where AI seem to find it nearly impossible to overtake each other, yet other tracks like Baku, Spa and Monza are perfect in how the AI act. I think there needs to be some adjustment on the AI on circuits that are harder to overtake.

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Yeah I see that too. Its circuits just long enough for the power to win overtakes so the slower AI can't defend so easily and have no choice but to concede. I have put a request through to look into it so hopefully they will find out and get a work around sorted for it 🤞

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I find even in a much faster car I can't run well on softs at the start, put mediums on first stop and I'm flying.

The differential between softs and mediums in first stint isn't strong enough and then the AI leaders who pit can't get through the field when they pit early. First two races in a Merc in career mode I've trailed Lewis at the first stop but he gets stuck in the midfield after his stop and I can overtake him and drive off. It needs fixing as it's ruining realism.

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On 7/31/2020 at 3:21 PM, Carystus said:

Yeah I see that too. Its circuits just long enough for the power to win overtakes so the slower AI can't defend so easily and have no choice but to concede. I have put a request through to look into it so hopefully they will find out and get a work around sorted for it 🤞

You posted in the bugs sub forum? Can you share the link? People here could also add information there. 

Edited by viniciusrsouza
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On 8/1/2020 at 3:51 PM, JoeMercersWay said:

 It needs fixing as it's ruining realism.

I drive 100% race length and the fast guys has no problems in my races. The reason is: When the fast guys changes their tires then they already has so much time advantage that they can no longer get stuck behind someone they should actually overtake quickly. It is the same in reality.

These problems only occur at 25% or 50% race lengths, not 100% race length, and 100% race length is realistic. So it makes no sense to complain about a problem that occurs under unrealistic conditions (25%,50%).

If you want realism then drive 100% race length and your problem is solved.

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Sorry, I disagree. It must be scaleable: Because the majority of users of this game (it's not sold as a sim, however much some people want to see it that way) don't have free time to run 22 100% races, full season, we don't deserve the right features? It's the blindfold, monitor switched off all over again. 

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13 minutes ago, amazingblaze said:

Sorry, I disagree. It must be scaleable: Because the majority of users of this game (it's not sold as a sim, however much some people want to see it that way) don't have free time to run 22 100% races, full season, we don't deserve the right features? It's the blindfold, monitor switched off all over again. 

How should you scale something like that? Should you make the Mercedes artificially 2 seconds faster per lap in 50% races, just so that it can overtake faster after a pit stop ? That's not realistic either.

I think the core problem is the weak slipstream, but this problem is not easy to fix. If you were to increase the slipstream effect, then you would simply have to press the overtaking button and you would shoot past the vehicle in front like in Mario Kart. That is then again not realistic.

The only way I can see is : The AI has to be more uncompromising when overtaking. But In that case, others will complain that the AI is ruthless.

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I have noticed the AI is sometimes struggling to overtake even with softer or fresher tires. Their pace is also different in many tracks. Now I have the second worst car on the grid and currently racing at Hungary. I started last due to grid penalties and currently in 7th place with pure overtakes (and only 1 dive bomb which put me up to P17). Like I said, I have the second worst car on the grid and I play on 104% difficulty but somehow I have way better pace than the faster midfield teams. I didn't expect the AI to be so slow in this track.

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What I notice in my game is that on some tracks, the wear of the Soft tire is so fast that there is no time to be faster than the medium.  Mainly because we use Macio in the classification, so we have already started the race with it worn out, and with a few laps it has no performance.  Perhaps this is what is happening.

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