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Why only first gear at start?

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I don't get why I can't select a higher gear than first for the start. I've tried, it just won't work. This is a bit strange since I know at least some of the real F1 drivers use second when they start, if not all.

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As far as I know F1 transmissions can't skip gears. They're sequentially arranged on the transmission shaft. There must be something about that on the FIA regulations, even though every team engineers their own transmission system. 

They can, however, shift gears in like <10ms, which is probably why you don't see the "1" popping up on their dashboards. Even the clutch in a F1 car is only engaged during launch, on race start or coming from neutral as far as I know. 

Engine mapping and gear ratios are team dependent too. Actually, even drivers in the same team may favor different solutions. I think Haas has a notorious outlying approach to gears ratio or power mapping? Something like that. That should explain why you may see some drivers staying in 1st gear for a while and others going virtually "straight" to 2nd.  

 

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Above post is nonsense - drivers have indeed started in 2nd gear for wet starts to provide better launches. No one starts from neutral, that's the whole point of the clutch

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, amphobius said:

Above post is nonsense - drivers have indeed started in 2nd gear for wet starts to provide better launches. No one starts from neutral, that's the whole point of the clutch

 

Care to explain how or to provide any source for sequential transmissions like those of a F1 car being able to skip gears? I'm curious. Genuinely curious, no sarcasm.

Edit: @Lakrits reread your post and turns out I'm stupid. Idiot me thought you were talking about skipping gears, which simply can not be done on a sequential gearbox but is a common racing technique with your ordinary stick shift. But you were actually asking about launching the car from 2nd or whatever gear your heart so desires (after obviously going through all the previous one).

Can only assume it hasn't been implemented for not being requested all that often.

Edited by marioho
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Posted (edited)

Yes. Obviously with a clutch you can cycle through all the gears and start on whichever you want. The advantage of starting on a higher gear is also obvious, it will help to reduce wheelspin and hence give you better traction, at least on a wet track but also at other times. An example can clearly be seen if you view the onboard camera from Bottas jump start in Hungary. It's rare to get that view from a start so I guess it's not that well known that they do this, at least in certain situations.

7 hours ago, marioho said:

Can only assume it hasn't been implemented for not being requested all that often.

This doesn't really make sense to me though. You can change gears however you want whenever you're on track, except for the start. That indicates to me that this limitation is intentional.

Edited by Lakrits

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55 minutes ago, Lakrits said:

This doesn't really make sense to me though. You can change gears however you want whenever you're on track, except for the start. That indicates to me that this limitation is intentional.

Wouldn't that require remapping the default buttons for clutch and upshift though as currently they coincide if you go with manual starts with clutch enabled? Yeah, not that hard of a workaround given that DRS is out of question on race starts.

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15 minutes ago, marioho said:

Wouldn't that require remapping the default buttons for clutch and upshift though as currently they coincide if you go with manual starts with clutch enabled? Yeah, not that hard of a workaround given that DRS is out of question on race starts.

Or just set a "Starting gear" in the race strategy or on the MFD that is only accessible during the formation lap until lights out

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I'm guessing it isn't an option because of how the buttons are binded, although it could be worked around like suggested above. Then again, does it actually make any practical difference compared to the driver simply upshifting immediately after the lights go out?

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1 hour ago, janbonator said:

I'm guessing it isn't an option because of how the buttons are binded, although it could be worked around like suggested above. Then again, does it actually make any practical difference compared to the driver simply upshifting immediately after the lights go out?

I thought the same. Didn't see any difference in upshifting before lights out or immediately after lights out.

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Yes it does make a differente. If you start at second you'll get less wheelspin and can drive a bit further before next upshift. If you start at first and then upshift as soon as possible it's very likely you get more wheelspin and then when you suddenly upshift right away you'll get a bit of "brake", even though ever so slightly, on the wheels which might unsettle the entire car and make it more difficult than it would be if you could select second before start.

Basic physics.

 

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I don't think so. The difference between "a) second gear, lights out release clutch, accelerate and b) first gear, lights out, upshift into second gear, release clutch, accelerated" could be measured, but i doubt you will really notice it.

Or is it blocked to upshift into second before you have fully released the clutch? I never tried it and never had the need to start in second gear.

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I'm going to go ahead and say it is intentional in order to add the mini game for race starts - can you control it enough to get good traction and get away clean or get bogged down. If you were able to use higher gears for starts to limit wheel spin making it easy to get away cleaner, then everyone would do it and then we'd be moaning about not having that tension of having a bad start nor bogging down and how boring race starts are or how you can't capitalise on someone's mistake. 

 

It is a good idea don't get me wrong but then I think for the game it's a good thing they've done what they have if it is as I suspect and linked to the start mechanics to add that uncertainty.

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Could there not be the same trade-offs experienced in real F1, with presumably the best possible start being achieved in 1st gear if the driver gets it right?

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I can't say for sure which drivers use second and when they do or don't. All I know is that at least some do and do it when wet and possibly even on dry, possibly when starting on the dirty side of the track.

Speaking from experience, and this is mainly on slippery surfaces, going to second on a manual car makes it a lot easier to get away just because the chance of wheelspin is lower, even using the clutch.

But, I guess this isn't possible in game for the same reason the clutch isn't really usable as a proper clutch. However, if I am better at doing starts, using a higher gear and the clutch (if it had been possible to use the clutch like that) to avoid wheelspin, why would that be a bad thing? If everything should be equal for everyone, why even make it possible to change setups, tyres and so on. To me it doesn't sound all that logical why some things are possible to chose between and others not.

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From my point of view it would all be way easier if the clutch would work every time and not only at race starts. So we could practice race starts if we want and could get a feeling of a good start. I didn't know why it is programmed that the clutch didn't really work, only at race starts.

I have a wheel with dual clutch and potentiometer for clutch bite point. It's impossible to find the right value without practicing race starts.

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