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Unrealistic and annoying throttle application

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The handling in general is quite nice and a big improvement on 2019... but on F1 2020 the mechanical grip at the rear has become even more floaty, less grippy and annoying at the same time.

In this onboard you can see Bottas accelerating hard and quickly out of every corner without wheelspin. On the game we would spin at least 4-5 times during this lap.

Important to note that this was his 2019 pole lap and this week they should be even more planted and much faster.

To me, it seems like Codemasters has increased high speed grip and downforce but completely forgotten about the low and medium speed corners. Too little feel, too little grip and random spins that 1) makes it less fun to drive 2) artificially harder 3) makes racing worse as you can't accelerate out of corners if you're fighting and not on the ideal racing line.

Maybe this is one for @David Greco CM to answer. Would love other people's opinions on this as well.

 

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@TSR Zinker  This years game is definitely not floaty. The overall consensus is it is the polar opposite of floaty. 

I would suggest if your having throttle issues you play around with the linearity within the settings as the cars are fairly stable on this version.

Finally i wouldn't compare what you see in real life to this game.

Firstly you have to remember real life drivers have that feel what the car is doing underneath them to better judge how to put the power down but you don't on this. It's visual clues only with the ffb.

Secondly they have engineers who specifically put together throttle maps for each circuit to correctly distribute power in the most suitable way whereas on this game its one setting. 

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Only wheel spin like you describe that I've had in 2020, is in the wet. Even then its controllable with a deft touch.

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We also have to remember that we are comparing to one of the world's best drivers who has had thousands of hours of practice and pretty much knows how much throttle he can give at every moment 🙂 

Also stuff like actually being able to feel every force cast on to you, and having a setup that allows you to accelerate out of corners like that.

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20 minutes ago, UP100 said:

We also have to remember that we are comparing to one of the world's best drivers who has had thousands of hours of practice and pretty much knows how much throttle he can give at every moment 🙂 

Also stuff like actually being able to feel every force cast on to you, and having a setup that allows you to accelerate out of corners like that.

I know it's not comparable but in terms of practice time... it's not like I'm a very bad or inexperienced player. I've done over 500 league races since F1 2013 in 2014 and spent several thousand hours on these games.

On F1 2018, my first F1 game on a wheel, I immediately had a much better feel and feedback for the throttle. I know what I'm talking about.

The people I play with (also on a wheel), very talented and some even esports caliber drivers, all share the same opinion, that the loss of traction is way too abrupt, there isn't much feedback and a modern car F1 car shouldn't be driven the way we do at the moment.

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You are right that high speed, and medium cornering speed has been increased. However, slow speed is still almost similar to 2019, and I wish they could give us more grip in slow speed corners. It feels dangerous to plant the throttle early on slow speed corners in this game, as I still feel that the cars are just on a knife edge on slow speed corners. I play on a pad with no assists.

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1 hour ago, TSR Zinker said:

I know it's not comparable but in terms of practice time... it's not like I'm a very bad or inexperienced player. I've done over 500 league races since F1 2013 in 2014 and spent several thousand hours on these games.

On F1 2018, my first F1 game on a wheel, I immediately had a much better feel and feedback for the throttle. I know what I'm talking about.

The people I play with (also on a wheel), very talented and some even esports caliber drivers, all share the same opinion, that the loss of traction is way too abrupt, there isn't much feedback and a modern car F1 car shouldn't be driven the way we do at the moment.

Driving with talented drivers, or driving in leagues since F1 2013 doesn't really mean anything as with these kinds of things you need to believe in facts. If you do want me to believe in one's authority, you definitely need more than that 🙂 

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1 hour ago, TSR Zinker said:

I know it's not comparable but in terms of practice time... it's not like I'm a very bad or inexperienced player. I've done over 500 league races since F1 2013 in 2014 and spent several thousand hours on these games.

On F1 2018, my first F1 game on a wheel, I immediately had a much better feel and feedback for the throttle. I know what I'm talking about.

The people I play with (also on a wheel), very talented and some even esports caliber drivers, all share the same opinion, that the loss of traction is way too abrupt, there isn't much feedback and a modern car F1 car shouldn't be driven the way we do at the moment.

It definitely is not worse on this version than 2019.

2018 i could drive without TC.

2019 i could barely do a lap without spinning in the slow speed corners it was so sensitive.

2020 i can easily drive without TC again including the Wet.  

The difference between 2019 and 2020 is night and day. 

I would bet good money that you adapted to 2019 very well and you haven't quite adjusted yet and are merely using the same input and expecting the same result.

Different doesn't mean worse. Different means learning the new way of driving. Either that or change the pedal sensitivity in the settings to fine tune things. 

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I suppose some wheels feel more floaty than others. G29 is very floaty on low speed, there is practically no FFB at all. Alternatively one can get a bit of feel to it, provided the driver being willing to schedule some wrist surgeries as a result. It's not worse than the previous games though - feels exactly the same to me. High speed corners are a whole different matter though.

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It seems a bit floaty but then I've mostly been playing the myteam car and I just got past the "boat" stage and it actually kinda feels like a car now. So not really the best example.

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I have a G29 , driving No Assists since 2017.

Medium and High Speed is now wonderfully Planted.

Low Speed Corners are for me slightly more slippery on accelaration , to the Point where I eventually gave in and increased my Throttle Linearity to 16 to compensate for this.

Most surely not imaging thing, as we have the Luxury to jump back and forth between 2019 and 2020 on the same car and Track and check the differences.

Would like for a Little bit more planted feel in Low Speed Corners, if possible.

 

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29 minutes ago, SpringbokGamer said:

I have a G29 , driving No Assists since 2017.

Medium and High Speed is now wonderfully Planted.

Low Speed Corners are for me slightly more slippery on accelaration , to the Point where I eventually gave in and increased my Throttle Linearity to 16 to compensate for this.

Most surely not imaging thing, as we have the Luxury to jump back and forth between 2019 and 2020 on the same car and Track and check the differences.

Would like for a Little bit more planted feel in Low Speed Corners, if possible.

 

Thing is, asking for more feel whilst using a G29 is a difficult one as an entry level wheel will natually have its limitations.

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I'd agree that grip at low speed seems lacking - it feels like the tyre can't take any longitudinal load at low speed, which is odd given that at high speed there is definitely a lot more grip this year.

Overall the handling is improved, and I really enjoy the driving, but the first few corners at Bahrain and Anthony Noghes at Monaco can be a miserable experience in applying power

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30 minutes ago, David Greco CM said:


Plus that video ain't the real telemetry, 

Indeed.

I noticed that a while ago watching a specific race one time and thinking these drivers never trail brake which they do. It almost seemed like the graphic has its own 5% deadzone built into it where you can't see the subtle inputs.

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48 minutes ago, David Greco CM said:

I go by the words of George Russell that said F1 2020 handling is very close to the real stuff this year. It can still be improved and it will for sure.

Plus that video ain't the real telemetry, can't be taken as reference. Is a good indication but not good enough for me to accept it as reference in order to do the handling. I pretty much go by feedback from real drivers whenever I can.

I have been critical the codemasters F1 games in the past in past, specifically about the handling/setup and tyre model. Although I have yet to purchase the 2020 game and can't comment on the improvements made this year, I am pleased to see the more open attitude of the developers and that you are listening to real drivers, and fans of the game. The handling and setup Q+A has been an interesting read. I hope this trend continues and a more realistic/simulation oriented physics model is developed into the future.

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23 minutes ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Indeed.

I noticed that a while ago watching a specific race one time and thinking these drivers never trail brake which they do. It almost seemed like the graphic has its own 5% deadzone built into it where you can't see the subtle inputs.

The brake telemetry is binary on the F1 feed. It's shame because it would be nice to see the differences between the drivers under braking like we can from the motoGP telemetry feed. My guess is drivers/teams don't want to release that data.

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22 hours ago, amphobius said:

I'd agree that grip at low speed seems lacking - it feels like the tyre can't take any longitudinal load at low speed, which is odd given that at high speed there is definitely a lot more grip this year.

Overall the handling is improved, and I really enjoy the driving, but the first few corners at Bahrain and Anthony Noghes at Monaco can be a miserable experience in applying power

But doesn't that accurately simulate the effects of downforce? Downforce increases with speed, so at lower speed you have much less downforce, and therefore grip.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, David Greco CM said:

I go by the words of George Russell that said F1 2020 handling is very close to the real stuff this year. It can still be improved and it will for sure.

Plus that video ain't the real telemetry, can't be taken as reference. Is a good indication but not good enough for me to accept it as reference in order to do the handling. I pretty much go by feedback from real drivers whenever I can.

That's fully justified and I'm glad that you are listening to real F1 driver feedback and will further improve the handling during F1 2020's game cycle. Did they also not say that 2019's medium TC is similar to the real world traction? IMO we are still slightly behind that on the current game.

It's important to me to mention that I wasn't trying to say that the handling sucks. Overall it is a huge improvement from 2019, though the aspect for low speed corner (mechanical) grip and the grip on kerbs on acceleration is slightly underwhelming and hopefully you can look into that. 👍

As you said the onboard video isn't the real telemetry but a good indication and also on F1 2020 onboards it's clear to hear and understand how the engine REV + throttle application is behaving and being used.

Edited by TSR Zinker
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45 minutes ago, TSR Zinker said:

Did they also not say that 2019's medium TC is similar to the real world traction? IMO we are still slightly behind that on the game.

 

Last year i used medium TC. No TC was too sensitive. 2019 i could drive without TC but there was just something about last years game i couldn't master.

I've switched back from medium to no TC on this years version and to me no TC on this version is in the ball park of last years medium TC so i'm not quite sure i agree that codemasters are behind as it seems very similar.

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Posted (edited)

In the rain using a T300 no assists, 

 

The brakes just lock up with the slightest of pressure, 

 

Example, 

 

In practice dry and qualy dry 1, 2 . then qualy 3 wet using no assists, 

Lock up was bad

In the actual 100% race,  it started off wet and brakes locked up with slightest of pressure on the brake pedal, 

It was bad .   When the track started to dry still terrible lock up 

Now with dry track and slicks you would expect the brakes to not lock up and work the same as in practice and qualy 1 and 2 , wrong.  The terrible lock up which you experience in the wet continued into the dry.

So clearly that's not right,  and all brakes and throttle are adjusted in settings. 

 

I tried it again in MULTIPLAYER and same thing happened again. 

Some classic cars are undrivable with no assists 😳  

 

Overall I like 👍 f12020 but there seems to be  flaws still.   I can't copy and paste the bug report section either so can't report 🙃 buggy bugs 

and something seems missing from the  FFB,  like an axis,  the ffb is good, 

Mind you after giving pcars3 a go today the prerelease version, its grid 2019, lol.

It should have been cancelled or called GRID 2020 , IF YOU like acade then buy it , don't expect nothing as good as pcars2. 

Edited by senna94f1
Pcars3 is blank 😳

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2 hours ago, TSR Zinker said:

Did they also not say that 2019's medium TC is similar to the real world traction?

No.

They didn't say that medium TC was similar to real world. They said that medium TC was more similar to real world than no TC.

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10 hours ago, LuigiPeceguini said:

But doesn't that accurately simulate the effects of downforce? Downforce increases with speed, so at lower speed you have much less downforce, and therefore grip.

If it were a lack in lateral grip (and there is, but that's not what I'm worried about), then yes. But the lack in longitudinal grip means that there is still an excess of wheelspin when the car should probably be more settled whilst power is being delivered. It feels like there's no rear toe in, even if there is a lot of it in the setup.

(And yes, I'm being gentle in power delivery!)

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13 hours ago, amphobius said:

If it were a lack in lateral grip (and there is, but that's not what I'm worried about), then yes. But the lack in longitudinal grip means that there is still an excess of wheelspin when the car should probably be more settled whilst power is being delivered. It feels like there's no rear toe in, even if there is a lot of it in the setup.

(And yes, I'm being gentle in power delivery!)

Nailed it.

Maybe someone has advice if I can do something with my wheel seetings to fox the throttle/acceleration issue?

I'm using a Thrustmaster TMX Pro

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3 hours ago, TSR Zinker said:

Nailed it.

Maybe someone has advice if I can do something with my wheel seetings to fox the throttle/acceleration issue?

I'm using a Thrustmaster TMX Pro

You can try adding some linearity to the throttle. I suggest starting off with small adjustments, say 5% at first. I've done it with the brakes because my brake pedal is atrocious (G29).

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