Jump to content

Disable the steering limit/full lock on the pad!

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hello!

There's a massively annoying issue with F1 2019 (still present, after countless feedback from older titles) for the players with a PAD, the faster you are the less you can turn the steering wheel in the game, pretty much forbidding you to correct mid-turn unlike in any other serious racing sim.

To exemplify: if you're driving at 100kph with full right stick you can turn the in-game wheel about 90° (arbitrary numbers); meanwhile, at 200kph with the same full right stick you can only turn the in-game wheel 60°. There are no sensitivity and speed sensitivity sliders in the control settings (how can there not be these 2 basic settings in a racing game? Sorry, but it's ridiculous).

The effect this has on the game is that if you don't start your turn with max stick pressure at the very exact moment you're just done for - meanwhile in titles like PCars 2 (and even real life F1 footage) you can see drivers sometimes pushing the wheel a bit more towards the turn for a correction - yes, it wastes tire, but it doesn't make you understeer out of the track or crash.

A second issue is with the Monaco's hairpin. You gotta slow down way more than the AI (above 100 difficulty) because the bloody wheel doesn't turn enough. You just need 10 or so more degrees to make the turn, but even with full left stick the wheel does NOT turn past a point.

Please, Codemasters, stop treating your players like idiots. We are not playing Mario Kart, we don't need a massive limitation on the pad controls so we don't oversteer - quite the contrary, all this is causing is for us to understeer when we shouldn't. The cars feel on rails the whole race, while they should be agile and capable of making corrections, because it takes so bloody long for the wheel to go from left to right and past it's limits even with a full left/right stick movement.

Rant over.

Edited by Arch3rAc3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a great post. But to me it's both enlightening and confusing. Are you playing F1 2019 on PC or a console? I'm on the XboxOne console using a pad/controller and have also at times thought that the less wheel turn whilst at higher speeds was just part of the general physics of mechanical movement at high speeds. I thought that increasing wheel turn could be accomplished by altering the steering linearity and/or saturation values in the steering/throttle/braking menu.

It's maybe getting the balance between the steering linearity and saturation. Manual gears also help massively in cornering. I'm still learning the game.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now now now just look at Mr @Scrogshere all fancy terms and rich knowledge!

I'm with Scrogs though. In the sense that I thought that was a feature, not a bug or bad design decision. Will try to see if I find videos of high speed corners being taken on other simulators to try to notice the difference but that's a tall order I think.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, marioho said:

Now now now just look at Mr @Scrogshere all fancy terms and rich knowledge!

I'm with Scrogs though. In the sense that I thought that was a feature, not a bug or bad design decision. Will try to see if I find videos of high speed corners being taken on other simulators to try to notice the difference but that's a tall order I think.

Haha......I'm turning into Scotty from Star Trek. ("I cannae change the laws of physics Jim").

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

A second issue is with the Monaco's hairpin. You gotta slow down way more than the AI (above 100 difficulty) because the bloody wheel doesn't turn enough.

How slow do you have to go to be able to get the on-screen wheel to turn full lock to the left? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Scrogs said:

That is a great post. But to me it's both enlightening and confusing [...]

Sorry for the confusion. I'm playing F1 2019 on the Xbox with a controller/pad.

6 hours ago, marioho said:

I'm with Scrogs though. In the sense that I thought that was a feature, not a bug or bad design decision [...]

I agree that its a feature, but all it achieves is limiting you. Please try Assetto Corsa if you have it, you'll see the difference right away as this effect/"feature" is, by default, a lot less pronounced there.

Most racing sims have something called "speed sensitivity", it's pretty much a controller sensitivity setting - sensitivity being the control setting that allows the in-game wheel to turn more/less with full left/right stick movement. What this "speed sensitivity" does is lowering/increasing the general sensitivity based on your speed, Project Cars 2 is one of the sims that has this setting, being pretty much essential for pad users.

Saturation and Linearity do not fix this since they don't change the full lock value based on speed, all they change is how much you have to physically move the stick to achieve 100% movement - for example, I can increase my saturation by 2 so that when I move my stick halfway to the left it will be as if I had moved it fully to the left, BUT the in-game wheel will still be limited to a specific angle based on my current speed.

What codemasters must understand is that I should NOT need full left/right stick to make ANY turn in a racing circuit, but due to this limitation (as a feature), I find myself having to move the stick fully to the left/right more than once in every circuit because the game simply "assumes" and limits me in how much in-game turning I need.

I'd rather risk oversteering and wasting more time by turning too much than to understeer unrealistically all the time I  brake or start a turn a tenth of a second too late and being unable to correct by simply steering harder into the turn.

I hope I made it a bit clearer now. I've also made a post on this same issue for F1 2018 here: I believe it clears a lot

 

Edited by Arch3rAc3
Grammar
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ultra3142 said:

How slow do you have to go to be able to get the on-screen wheel to turn full lock to the left? 

About zero kph. They made this "feature" so poorly that there doesn't seem to be an upper/lower limit, so it constantly limits your ability to turn from 0kph to "max speed".

In Baku for example. If you have to use the run-off area you're done for. In real life drivers can simply turn the wheel fully to the side and do a 180º, but try doing this with a pad now LOL.

Even with full stick movement at walking speed my in-game steering wheel would not turn enough for me to make the car spin (yes, traction control disabled) - all it would achieve was getting my front wing smashed on the wall.

Meanwhile this can be easily done in Project Cars 2 just like in real life.

Edited by Arch3rAc3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm struggling with how it can be as bad as is being described given how fast pad players like iContrast were in F1 2019. Are there definitely not settings that can be adjusted to help with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

How does this compare to your experience?

 

I can't get round Monaco without at least 3-6 run offs per lap. I can get round fairly unscathed if I drive slowly. I don't how these fast lads and lasses get round  in the times that they can do. Probably thousands of hours playing and honing their brain/hand/eye co ordination.  (I can't drive Baku very well either......or most circuits really)! It would be good to get a lesson from these speed merchants.......and maybe get their controller settings. 😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arch3rAc3 very informative answer and it would be great if the suggestion reached the likes of @David Greco CM. I can't take a stand on it yet for not having experience with the matter in other racing sims, but you got me so interested in it that I'll probably download PC2 demo if it's still lying around the PS Store. 

If you don't mind me leaning on you too much, it would also be great if you could renew your suggestion on the specific F1 2020 forum. I'd gladly chime in with whatever input I may have by then just to endorse it. I'm not privy to the reasons for things being like they are on the F1 games and may even swing back to approve of Codemasters' design choice, but your argument certainly piqued my interest!

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Scrogs said:

I can't get round Monaco without at least 3-6 run offs per lap. I can get round fairly unscathed if I drive slowly. I don't how these fast lads and lasses get round  in the times that they can do. Probably thousands of hours playing and honing their brain/hand/eye co ordination.  (I can't drive Baku very well either......or most circuits really)! It would be good to get a lesson from these speed merchants.......and maybe get their controller settings. 😉

I can't get around anything like as fast as the top players either! Looking at how iContrast goes round the Loews hairpin he seems to get full lock at the same speed as I can on a wheel though.

Edited by Ultra3142
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Sorry for the confusion. I'm playing F1 2019 on the Xbox with a controller/pad.

I agree that its a feature, but all it achieves is limiting you. Please try Assetto Corsa if you have it, you'll see the difference right away as this effect/"feature" is, by default, a lot less pronounced there.

Most racing sims have something called "speed sensitivity", it's pretty much a controller sensitivity setting - sensitivity being the control setting that allows the in-game wheel to turn more/less with full left/right stick movement. What this "speed sensitivity" does is lowering/increasing the general sensitivity based on your speed, Project Cars 2 is one of the sims that has this setting, being pretty much essential for pad users.

Saturation and Linearity do not fix this since they don't change the full lock value based on speed, all they change is how much you have to physically move the stick to achieve 100% movement - for example, I can increase my saturation by 2 so that when I move my stick halfway to the left it will be as if I had moved it fully to the left, BUT the in-game wheel will still be limited to a specific angle based on my current speed.

What codemasters must understand is that I should NOT need full left/right stick to make ANY turn in a racing circuit, but due to this limitation (as a feature), I find myself having to move the stick fully to the left/right more than once in every circuit because the game simply "assumes" and limits me in how much in-game turning I need.

I'd rather risk oversteering and wasting more time by turning too much than to understeer unrealistically all the time I starting brake or start a turn tenth of a second too late and being unable to correct by simply steering harder into the turn.

I hope I made it a bit clearer now. I've also made a post on this same issue for F1 2018 here: I believe it clears a lot

 

Thanks for clarifying.....I understand now what you are describing. I've never given the issue much thought really until your post. I reckon most pad users (well me anyway) have just tried to get on driving and playing the game as best we/I can with the resources that the game offers. Thinking in retrospect I've had loads of turns and cornering where I just haven't had enough wheel lock but rationalized that my set up was wrong or my pad settings needed changing. The main thought was my driving skills are basic (very basic!) and that I wasn't in correct position/wrong speed/wrong gear/wrong braking point.

There must be a way to drive fast and get enough steering turn/lock for cornering. There are some really skilled (and fast) pad drivers about.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

How does this compare to your experience?

 

Thanks for the video, he's a pretty good player!

I just recorded a quick clip in a Ferrari in Monaco as well for comparison: https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/archerac3/video/105426808 A bit rusty and unused to the track, but I think it works for a simple comparison.

I've went through all the turns in the clip with full stick movement - in PCars 2, for constrast, I almost never need this much stick movement in the same track.

Notice during the hairpin how the in-game wheel moves to the right. I was holding the stick fully to the left all the time, but at the moment I throttle up and my speed rises a bit, the game decides that I simply don't need all that steering - the result was me hitting the front wing on the wall xD. This, in any sim, is a clear indication that my speed sensitivity setting for the pad is too low and would be pretty easy to fix (I had the same issue with PCars 2 in the start).

Also interestingly, in the video he's a bit slower than me on the hairpin, but if I drive that slow against AI>100 I simply can't compete, as the AI doesn't have to slow down that much apparently.

Edit: this mid-corner compensation the game does when I throttle also makes it harder for me to force a slight oversteer and make the corner.

Edited by Arch3rAc3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're still not getting full lock in that video, unlike iContrast. There's something not as it should be for you but I'm afraid I can't help with what. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the exactly same problem, and I've always played really well on both wheel and controller on titles like rFactor, Live for Speed, F1 challenge, Automobilista and even on last gen's F1 games... Just got back playing the game, now with a controller, and it's so frustating how it handles. The moment I get any oversteer I'm done, the game don't allow me to proper counter steer, I have to be 100% precise entering high speed corners because it's impossible to correct. When I'm into the corner it's even more frustating because the game simply changes the amount of steer mid corner, even when my input is the same. For me it's so counter intuitive, it is frustating because I have to always watch myself not to bottle in every single corner. I got that it's a learning curve to get used to it, but it just no seems right the way it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coudnt agree more. The game almost steers itself. The slow corners are really frustrating for me, because no matter How much I steer the stick to the left/right the game prevents me to get full steering. They should implement multiple levels of "steering guidance" for pad users, because at the moment I believe its too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you keep pressing the joystick it will let you steer more on xbox. I think it does not solve your original issue but let you take the hairpin in Monaco.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×