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New Logitech wheel (G923)

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Hoping @BarryBL can answer this one...

Media reporting that the new G923 wheel will have a brand new feedback system that will be integrated into F1 around September time. Considering the fact it also has many more buttons than the G920 on the wheel itself (similar to G29), is the update that will be needed for the wheel going to include the extra button functionality??

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There are a few reviews popping up already but majorly by people who are not really sim gamers. From those in the know though it seems like it's far from an improvement relatively to the G29. Reportedly just an extra tingling sensation in the fingertips? I'll wait for a quality opinion on it 

Looks like Logitech just want to phase out the G920 and G29 and is doing that by consolidating the two products under a "new" one with a new SKU.

I don't think there will be anything major needed on Codemasters side as it is basically a G29.

By the way Sony has announced that all these peripherals will be compatible with the PS5. So barring Logitech being naughty, the G29 should work just fine. Microsoft has long signaled the same regarding the Series X I think?

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I get that, but it still has more buttons than a G920 which new users will want to be functioning, or what's the point in having them? Assuming some kind of game update is needed to determine the 'tingly feeling' through the wheel, it would be good to know if they plan on incorporating the extra buttons too, which should hopefully help us G920 owners who have constantly had 2 useless buttons in this game. I assume all wheel buttons / functions work on the G29 on a PS4? 

Edited by Rango
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It doesn't seem worth the price.  I never had an issue with Logitech's wheels, but the pedals are awful.

 

All the guys who got bitten by the simracing bug during lockdown and then realised they aren't Ayrton Senna are selling their expensive gear so you will probably find quite a few bargains at the moment.

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I see. Sorry for the confusion. It's just that the only mention of an update I saw was regarding the audio and microvibatrions functionalities of the new FFB and given the title I assumed you were asking about the TrueForce gimmick. Now on a second look I see you're actually interested in getting those 920 buttons working.

I guess if the SDKs are the same for both models the scheduled integration would end up benefiting you too indirectly? Either way Logitech is maybe more capable of answering that than Codemasters.

@JonnyHoonit Funny as looks like the brake pedal actually was upgraded. The only noteworthy difference aside from the TrueForce gimmick.

 

 

 

Edited by marioho

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@marioho It will be interesting to see what they've actually done to it.  No doubt Barry from Sim Racing Garage will pry one open to see what's different.  Hopefully more than just a rubber bung like the last one.

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29 minutes ago, JonnyHoonit said:

@marioho It will be interesting to see what they've actually done to it.  No doubt Barry from Sim Racing Garage will pry one open to see what's different.  Hopefully more than just a rubber bung like the last one.

If they rehash the same wheel again, the sim racing community will be mad. The FFB system has remained exactly the same with Logitech wheels since the G27, it wasnt updated for the G29/G920. It still used the same motor and cog design, and the motor still put out the same amount of torque as the G27 wheel. They just consoldated the buttons onto the wheel face, and released a shifter that I found kept breaking, so I used my G27 shifter with it instead. I defended them back when the G29/G920 released, due to the platofrm costs Sony and Microsoft both apply; as it wouldnt have been as financially viable back then to release an FFB wheel onto the market using a new FFB system. If the new G923 wheels is the same FFB system, just with added haptic feedback, I wont be defending them this time around.

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A progressive spring is as far as the pedal upgrade goes it seems. 

1 hour ago, marioho said:

Either way Logitech is maybe more capable of answering that than Codemasters.

The issue isn't really logitech, as those buttons already work for other games, like PC2, it's a Codemasters problem.

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It does go further to confirm that GHub is the only supported software for the G923. Hopefully now Codemasters design the game using the correct software....

At least XBox now gets flashy LEDs 🙂

Oddly the Dual Clutch is not unsupported on XB1 F1 2019 unless there's an error in the graphic. And no Trueforce for anyone yet in F1 2020.

Edited by steviejay69

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2 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

same with Logitech wheels since the G27

Actually, since the G25.  😛

I've had a G25 and a G29, and the FFB is identical.  The G29 is a far better wheel for Formula racing, as it has the buttons in reach.  But the GHub software gave me grief, and the way the registry file would be changed if you played other games, causing the wheel to stop being recognized by windows... I got a T300 and put an end to the misery.

If you're on console, the Logitech wheels are still really good.  The FFB is clacky, but the wheel is very solid - I had my G25 for almost 7 years before I sold it, used it with the PS3 and put a few hundred hours on it in Gran Turismo.  The software isn't an issue; they just work.

But on PC (at least for me) it was an entirely different story. 

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3 hours ago, Rango said:

The issue isn't really logitech, as those buttons already work for other games, like PC2, it's a Codemasters problem.

Haha not talking about the issue here, mate, but the answer to one of the ways your question can be phrased. "Is the SDK the same between the G923 and G920?". From what I could gather that's the "update" that will be done on the developers side of things to implement TrueForce, the integration of G923's SDK. I'd risk that if it's the same SDK, by doing so your G920 lacking buttons will be fixed too. Now if they share the same SDK, that's a question ripe for Logitech to the taking!

Anyway.

I'm disappointed with the announcement as it seem to represent no progress at all to the category. Personally my only solace is that it may help dump the G29 prices down.

On the other hand though I can't bash on Logitech as they're the only brand with enough of a presence down here to offer wheels at an "accessible" price. This will be my first dab with wheels, but we've been stuck with an unfavorable exchange rate and a new G29 now equals practically 3x the monthly minimum wage here. Or a full month of rent plus utilities in a downtown 3 bedroom apartment in a 3.5 million people city - meaning yeah, not cheap.

The competing thrustmaster models easily break that 3x price point and I don't even think they have official costumer service here while Logitech has a solid track record with RMAs and replacements.

Logitech is the best I can go to without bankrupting.

Hah, one can dream at least!

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You're right there. Logitech are really the only option for Xbox users, without settling for awful performance or paying the earth (and still not having all functioning buttons lol). 

Either way, the G923 doesn't seem worth the extra cash for G920/G29 owners but might attract new users. Regarding the 'one sku' point though, there are actually 2 versions with ps4/xbox buttons, so they didn't actually manage it. I do like the rpm leds, not sure how programmable they are, if at all. 

I do hope that between CM and Logitech they can manage to figure out the whole button thing, especially as the new one has more. 

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6 minutes ago, Rango said:

You're right there. Logitech are really the only option for Xbox users, without settling for awful performance or paying the earth (and still not having all functioning buttons lol). 

Either way, the G923 doesn't seem worth the extra cash for G920/G29 owners but might attract new users. Regarding the 'one sku' point though, there are actually 2 versions with ps4/xbox buttons, so they didn't actually manage it. I do like the rpm leds, not sure how programmable they are, if at all. 

I do hope that between CM and Logitech they can manage to figure out the whole button thing, especially as the new one has more. 

There is the Thrustmaster TMX, which will be cheaper now than the logitech offerings once the G923 releases. There is also the TX wheel, which while had issues at first released in 2013/2014, will also now be cheaper than the logitech G923 when it releases (base TX wheel is £289 atm in the UK); and the quality issues have been ironed out for the TX wheel. Then there is the TS-XW Racer, which is more akin to Fanatec prices. Then there is Fanatec. So Thrustmaster will technically have the lower prices after the G923 releases. Ive never used a TMX wheel, but the TX wheel is much better in terms of FFB feel and motor torque. I have owned a TX in the past, I also have a G27 and a G920. The TX is just a much better feeling wheel. Especially if you ditch the F458 wheel rim the base versions comes with.

Also, from what I can tell from reviews of the new G923, it is exactly the same wheel and pedals; but with a "speaker" of sorts added to provide tactile vibration feedback. Sort of like a buttkicker would under your seat, but for your hands instead.

Edited by Ialyrn
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I've always been put off by Thrustmaster wheels. I don't know if it's the usual ferrari branding or the more basic look on some of them. What I'd love is an affordable wheel with ability to change it out for an F1 style (or vice versa). I just know I'd buy one and it not be fully Xbox compatible or work with whatever base etc. With the g920 I knew it'd work out of the box. 

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1 minute ago, Rango said:

I've always been put off by Thrustmaster wheels. I don't know if it's the usual ferrari branding or the more basic look on some of them. What I'd love is an affordable wheel with ability to change it out for an F1 style (or vice versa). I just know I'd buy one and it not be fully Xbox compatible or work with whatever base etc. With the g920 I knew it'd work out of the box. 

Thrustmaster actually allows you to do that. Ok, the licensed Ferrari stuff can be a bit in your face. But there are multiple wheel rim options for TM hardware. I have had a TM wheel fail by the way, the TX wheel I had. I still ended up back on a T300 with a set of T3PA pro pedals and 2 TH8A shifers (one in h-pattern mode, the other in sequential mode), because their hardware just feels better, has better force feedback due to the belt drive system and more powerful motor. And has options for future expansion. Logitech have not innovated anything on the wheel scene since the G27 released, and all they really did was change the gears from straight cut to helical gears in order to cut down on noise, and removed the sequential shift functionality from the shifter that the previous G25 had.

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This has gone off topic but is interesting nonetheless. Pretty committed to the xbox platform so can't see me changing that for additional wheel choices, but might be worth looking into some new TM bits to swap out my G920 ... Not worried about shifter. Looks like most sets are 'normal' wheels with either 2/3 pedals to start with 

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21 minutes ago, Rango said:

This has gone off topic but is interesting nonetheless. Pretty committed to the xbox platform so can't see me changing that for additional wheel choices, but might be worth looking into some new TM bits to swap out my G920 ... Not worried about shifter. Looks like most sets are 'normal' wheels with either 2/3 pedals to start with 

My plan is to run with the G920 for a while then when that breaks, sell a kidney for a fanatec direct drive wheel base, formula rim and elite pedals

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@Rango, worth clarifying that I did a fruit salad in my posts. At first I mentioned the SKU, and that was intentionally, but then I went on to talk about the SDK. When I suggested you could ask Logitech too it was pertaining the SDK.

3 hours ago, Rango said:

Either way, the G923 doesn't seem worth the extra cash for G920/G29 owners but might attract new users. Regarding the 'one sku' point though, there are actually 2 versions with ps4/xbox buttons, so they didn't actually manage it. I do like the rpm leds, not sure how programmable they are, if at all. 

 

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LG's new wheel is quite timely for me.  I'm also committed to Xbox, and have been running the G920 for years without a single issue.  That said, just recently I started to notice the downshift paddle isn't registering my input 100% of the time.  So far the problem has been mostly a rare occurrence, but it does seem to be slowly happening more and more.  So that's been getting me to think about a replacement.  

I initially had dreams of going all in by upgrading to Fanatec.  I have eyes for the formula rim, but at the end of the day I just can't get myself to justify the cost for such limited Xbox functionality.  Not to mention the groaning I've heard in regard to the ease of use from a 'joystick' selector versus a conventional d-pad.  A small detail and something I'm sure people get accustomed to, but still...  I can't really justify a DD base either since I'm not some elite, eSports level, sim racing guru.  The pedals sound like they're great, but is it really worth the cost just so I can have favorable pedals with a less than ideal wheel and base...?  Lastly, the nail in the coffin for Fanatec was all the horror stories/posts/messages I found about hardware and software issues coupled with poor customer service.  Yes, I know people are more likely to post something negative than they are to post something positive, but the sheer quantity of it all really shook me from considering Fanatec any further.  At this price point the product should be rock solid, and the customer service should be nothing short of exceptional.  

Long story short, unless someone here can offer a compelling argument, I am not coming up with a good enough reason for me to go away from LG.  I've never used a Fanatec or Thrustmaster setup before, so I don't know what I'm missing in terms of "feel" or "feedback."  My old G25 and current G920 have been simple to use (truly plug and play), and have each given me countless hours of trouble free gaming (current intermittent issue aside).  The price is right (comparatively), I'd have peace of mind from a history of reliability, and even if something were to go wrong LG has given me white gloved customer service in the past (issue with a computer monitor).  The cherry on top would be if the G923 did end up being a bit more compatible with Xbox/CM games (ie- rev light, 'Trueforce', function from all/more buttons, rotary dial support).

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2 hours ago, DiGuB said:

I'd have peace of mind from a history of reliability, and even if something were to go wrong LG has given me white gloved customer service in the past (issue with a computer monitor).

Logitech dont make monitors 😵

As for what you may or may not be missing out on. The Thrustmaster belt drive wheels such as the TX (the version you would need for Xbox), have stronger motors in them which gives increase fidelity of FFB feeling. The belt drive system used by Thrustmaster is also smoother, plus the wheel rim is interchangable within Thrustmaster eco system. So you have have an F1 rim, a different open wheel/GT style rim, a sparco rally rim. There are multiple choices.

The Thrustmaster TH8A shifter is a lot better than the current Logitech Shifter as well, as it has sequential and h-pattern modes. On PC it also an analog handbrake function, and it uses hall effect sensors instead of switches.

Also, the TX wheel will actually be cheaper than the new Logitech G923 wheel. In the uk the G923 will sell initially at around £349. The G920 can be purchased for around £190 usually. The Thrustmaster TX wheel is currently sitting at around £289. TM's reliable is ok. I wont lie, I have a TX wheel burn out in 2014, there was quite a few issues with the wheel back then. But they have been ironed out by TM over the years. In terms of features and force feedback though, its a night and day difference between the Logitech wheels. I own a G27, a G920 and a Thrustmaster T300 currently.

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14 hours ago, marioho said:

There are a few reviews popping up already but majorly by people who are not really sim gamers. From those in the know though it seems like it's far from an improvement relatively to the G29. Reportedly just an extra tingling sensation in the fingertips? I'll wait for a quality opinion on it

Does it work like the vibrations on a pad? If so, it would actually be advantageous.

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1 hour ago, Ialyrn said:

Logitech dont make monitors 😵

As for what you may or may not be missing out on. The Thrustmaster belt drive wheels such as the TX (the version you would need for Xbox), have stronger motors in them which gives increase fidelity of FFB feeling. The belt drive system used by Thrustmaster is also smoother, plus the wheel rim is interchangable within Thrustmaster eco system. So you have have an F1 rim, a different open wheel/GT style rim, a sparco rally rim. There are multiple choices.

The Thrustmaster TH8A shifter is a lot better than the current Logitech Shifter as well, as it has sequential and h-pattern modes. On PC it also an analog handbrake function, and it uses hall effect sensors instead of switches.

Also, the TX wheel will actually be cheaper than the new Logitech G923 wheel. In the uk the G923 will sell initially at around £349. The G920 can be purchased for around £190 usually. The Thrustmaster TX wheel is currently sitting at around £289. TM's reliable is ok. I wont lie, I have a TX wheel burn out in 2014, there was quite a few issues with the wheel back then. But they have been ironed out by TM over the years. In terms of features and force feedback though, its a night and day difference between the Logitech wheels. I own a G27, a G920 and a Thrustmaster T300 currently.

Ha!  Not sure why I wrote monitor.  I meant keyboard.  Vacation is coming at the end of the month - clearly not soon enough 🙃

Appreciate your honesty about the issues you had with TM.  Encouraging to hear that TM have seemingly sorted things out over the years.  And belt driven wheels do sound appealing, but, again, I don't really know what I'm missing.  The shifter is less important to me as I also don't have one with my G920.  My whole rig (Playseat F1, G920, Xbox One, 55" TV) is pretty much solely for CM's F1 games, so I'd really only want paddles anyway.  It is appealing to me to get the 'latest and greatest' model (albeit maybe not the "greatest" compared to others) that LG has to offer as opposed to an older model from somewhere else.  That said, there's still time before G923 is released so I'll do my due diligence reading up on TM in the meantime.  I'll also be paying close attention to the reviews of G923 from actual sim racers after it's released.

 

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26 minutes ago, DiGuB said:

Ha!  Not sure why I wrote monitor.  I meant keyboard.  Vacation is coming at the end of the month - clearly not soon enough 🙃

Appreciate your honesty about the issues you had with TM.  Encouraging to hear that TM have seemingly sorted things out over the years.  And belt driven wheels do sound appealing, but, again, I don't really know what I'm missing.  The shifter is less important to me as I also don't have one with my G920.  My whole rig (Playseat F1, G920, Xbox One, 55" TV) is pretty much solely for CM's F1 games, so I'd really only want paddles anyway.  It is appealing to me to get the 'latest and greatest' model (albeit maybe not the "greatest" compared to others) that LG has to offer as opposed to an older model from somewhere else.  That said, there's still time before G923 is released so I'll do my due diligence reading up on TM in the meantime.  I'll also be paying close attention to the reviews of G923 from actual sim racers after it's released.

 

Baring the trueforce tactile thing they seemed to have added, it would appear the g923 is just the same old tired force feedback system from 2010 when the g27 released. So that should also be something to keep in mind too. Logitech really havnt innovated much at all, if anything really, with the g923. They essentially keep releasing the exact same wheel with a new lick of paint. The twin motor cog design shown in the promo material looks identical to the promo material from the g27 and the g920/g29. It honesly looks like a load of marketing spiel. It will be interesting to see what actual sim racers make of it when theu get their hands on one, I will be keeping an eye out on "sim racing garage" especially, as they strip everything apart to see whats inside.

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1 hour ago, janbonator said:

Does it work like the vibrations on a pad? If so, it would actually be advantageous.

In a way, I guess that’s accurate. I’ve seen it being described as a sort of rumbleness. It is a good improvement, no doubt. I have yet to put my hands on a any kind of wheel but from people’s reports I think I’ll somewhat miss the feedback the controller rumble gives? By the end of the day I’m sure there will be no mistaking it, the overall feedback a competent wheel rig provides will still be miles ahead of the overall experience with a controller.

It’s just not enough to justify any markup in the G923 price, in my opinion. It’s an iteration kind of improvement, not a leap or generation defining one. However nice, the FFB from G923 wheels seem to be still a magnitude level below that of a prover belt system.

The pedals are the one change receiving more praise. But the reasoning above kind of still applies, as the change was in more ways than one a type of fix instead of a legitimate evolution.

5 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Baring the trueforce tactile thing they seemed to have added, it would appear the g923 is just the same old tired force feedback system from 2010 when the g27 released. So that should also be something to keep in mind too. Logitech really havnt innovated much at all, if anything really, with the g923. They essentially keep releasing the exact same wheel with a new lick of paint. The twin motor cog design shown in the promo material looks identical to the promo material from the g27 and the g920/g29. It honesly looks like a load of marketing spiel. It will be interesting to see what actual sim racers make of it when theu get their hands on one, I will be keeping an eye out on "sim racing garage" especially, as they strip everything apart to see whats inside.

There's no two ways about it. It is simply put a revised G29/G920 with very minor improvements, as I said above. However all the reasons that made the G29 so frequently recommended as the consumer grade wheel with the best cost vs benefit still applies to this upgraded updated, as long as they maintain the price tag after the launch window price craze.

Keywords being: frequently recommended and maintain the price tag. We also see Thrustmaster kits being recommended as a starting point too, but that obviously depends on your budget.  

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