Safety Car never out (Bernd Maylander sleeping?)

[RS Phil 214]

1.       A detailed description of the issue. Please include any error codes here.
At Sochi was Charles Leclercq out of the race at corner exit 8 in a dangerous situation. No VSC or SC, just yellow flags.
It happened all the time (sometimes twice a race) and no SC. Please fix this. Thanks

2.       Platform
PS4 Pro

3.       What version of the game you are using (Shown on the start screen in the bottom left corner of the screen) 
1.06 (but it is the same since the release of this game)

4.       Game-mode?
Career mode, 80% AI

5.       What are your replication numbers? Minimum test attempts are 4. Please also add EXACT replication steps for us to try too. 
A lot, but really a lot. All the time there is a mechanical failure and a car is in a dangerous situation. No SC at all.

6.       What troubleshooting have you attempted? Please always try to attempt to fix the issue
Disable and enable SC several times in the menu. What else could I do?

7.       What peripherals are you are using (gamepad, wheel make & model etc) 
Fanatec CSL Elite PS4 F1 esport, LC brake but not relevant.

8.       Any screenshots or video of the issue? If the video is long, please include a timestamp for when the issue appears.
See attached file

[ostendorfjens 41]

@RS Phil Nice corner cutting!

As far as your complaint is concerned, I'm not too sure that this is a good example for what you're trying to say. I actually don't think this qualifies as being parked in a dangerous location. The two drivers in front of you took the corner in a much wider line. By the time they had reached the Ferrari, they were already driving in a straight line, so they were in no particular risk of hitting the parked car. You, on the other hand, hadn't really finished the turn when reaching Leclerc's car, so if you had, for example, accelerated too early and with too heavy a right foot and therefore lost the rear, it would certainly have put you at risk of losing it and crashing into that car. The risk was more on you and your driving style, not necessarily on everyone else. If the car had been parked ten meters/30 feet earlier, it would have been a truly dangerous spot for everyone, but this one, not so much.

I'm not saying that what you're talking about is wrong. As a matter of fact, I've seen numerous occasions which I would have considered safety-car-worthy as well, without the safety car/VSC being deployed. So I actually fully support you. I just don't think this is a particularly good example. Maybe you should try and look for a better, more conclusive one. Would improve your chances of this being noticed by the developers.

[ostendorfjens 41]

Oh, and by the way, I don't think Bernd Mayländer is the one who decides whether the safety car should be deployed or not ...

[RS Phil 214]

Thanks for your reply and observations but I totally disagree with you about the dangerous spot.

First of all, I was looking for my button on the wheel to capture a video and with the distraction I completely missed the apex and get penalized for corner cutting, which I fully accept. But this is not the matter of this video.

Sorry to say, but Leclercq is badly placed at the corner exit. You generally go wide on turn 8. If you forget about my racing line and concentrate on the Racing Point in front of me, you can clearly see (at 5 sec) that the car has still 2 tires over the kerb while passing through the Ferrari just a few meters away. I’m pretty sure that IRL, the Safety Car would have been out. There is really no escape on this turn.

If I took this video, this is because I’m really fed up with the way CM implement the SC feature. This is buggy since years (on one particular edition, don’t remember which one, there was no SC at all in the game, except when you saw it on the starting grid) and there is a lot of players complaining of this. You either get a SC for every mechanical failure or no SC at all.

I can show you 1 or 2 cases on every GP where the SC should have been out. If everyone post a video here with a case where the SC should be out, the forum will be completely full.

For me, this is a real game breaker. On the other hand, other drivers are complaining about SC getting out every time.

CM should, according to me, investigate on this (I’m not the only one on the forum) and communicate. I can’t accept that there is no feedback on this and will not give up.

[ThunderCats101 71]

It would be better if we had examples of crashes or cars stuck on the track where you expect there to be a SC. I also wouldn't expect a SC in the video, maybe a VSC though. The car is off the track and close to a marshal point. But from what everyone is saying, there does seem to be some inconsistencies. 

[Lanius1984 2]

I agree that this isn't the most 'obvious' example to have given. I've personally had far worse (cars stuck on the track, multiple other cars coming to a complete stop etc) without a SC or VSC being deployed.

I think the logic for a safety car deployment upon AI retirement isn't quite right at the moment clearly.

However, I think the biggest issue is the lack of AI mistakes and crashes. This results in far less of the usual scenarios for safety cars. The AI appears to be too passive when in a fight and will back off unnaturally to allow space. I can see why they have it like this, as many people don't treat AI like real drivers, so go for unrealistic moves. I think this should be a setting though - I'd personalyl rather have the AI aggressiveness right up to max to reflect real life a little better.

[RS Phil 214]

There are a lot of examples, believe me. How can you explain that people are complaining about the SC coming out to often and not in this case? I had 1 SC on 25 races! And no VSC, never! Many people don’t even post a video here, because they know this bug is continuing every year.

Because this one is apparently not relevant for some players, I will post a video every time this will happen.

[ostendorfjens 41]

@RS Phil Sorry to be so blunt about it, but you're completely missing the point.

It's not that I don't agree with you on the situation shown in the video - if I was the guy in charge, I'd certainly call it a situation warranting a full-course yellow. The problem is, if I can question the point, others can do it, too. What you need to really argue your case is a situation like @ThunderCats101 described it - a situation where everyone would scream "DANGER!" at the top of their voices. A situation so ludicrously unsafe that nobody in his right mind would drive past at full racing speed.

There are numerous spots for this - Albert Park in Melbourne, the fast left-hander leading to the fast chicane (turn 10, unless I'm mistaken; it's called "Lakeside Drive" in real life). A favourite place for cars to be parked, right next to the track on the left, with other cars passing the spot with less than one meter to spare at some 250 kph. The whole of Monaco. The whole of Singapore. The new Hanoi track. Even in Montreal I came across several situations I would have deemed unsafe. Every time walls are close to the track, you're sure to come across a situation which would always lead to a safety car/VSC in real life.

Like I said before, I agree with you completely. All I'm saying is, you really need to look for a better example - that one doesn't really cut it.

Edited August 11 by ostendorfjens

[RS Phil 214]

1 minute ago, Lanius1984 said:

I agree that this isn't the most 'obvious' example to have given. I've personally had far worse (cars stuck on the track, multiple other cars coming to a complete stop etc) without a SC or VSC being deployed.

I think the logic for a safety car deployment upon AI retirement isn't quite right at the moment clearly.

However, I think the biggest issue is the lack of AI mistakes and crashes. This results in far less of the usual scenarios for safety cars. The AI appears to be too passive when in a fight and will back off unnaturally to allow space. I can see why they have it like this, as many people don't treat AI like real drivers, so go for unrealistic moves. I think this should be a setting though - I'd personalyl rather have the AI aggressiveness right up to max to reflect real life a little better.

Totally agree, almost no accident. Only one in 25 races and SC out because this happened just in front of me. If the only accident had occurred at another spot, the cars would have been evacuated in a fraction of second and there would not have been any SC.

But the SC does not come out only for accidents IRL.

[RS Phil 214]

4 minutes ago, ostendorfjens said:

@RS Phil Sorry to be so blunt about it, but you're completely missing the point.

It's not that I don't agree with you on the situation shown in the video - if I was the guy in charge, I'd certainly call it a situation warranting a full-course yellow. The problem is, if I can question the point, others can do it, too. What you need to really argue your case is a situation like @ThunderCats101 described it - a situation where everyone would scream "DANGER!" at the top of their voices. A situation so ludicrously unsafe that nobody in his right mind would drive past at full racing speed.

There are numerous spots for this - Albert Park in Melbourne, the fast left-hander leading to the fast chicane (turn 10, unless I'm pretty much mistaken). A favourite place for cars to be parked, right next to the track on the left, with other cars passing the spot with less than one meter to spare at some 250 kph. The whole of Monaco. The whole of Singapore. The new Hanoi track. Even in Montreal I came across several situation I would have deemed unsafe. Every time walls are close to the track, you're sure to come across a situation which would always lead to a safety car/VSC in real life.

Like I said before, I agree with you completely. All I'm saying is, you really need to look for a better example - that one doesn't really cut it.

Ok, agree with you but if you don’t post a video there is no chance CM will look at the case.

Don’t tell me that they didn’t notice something wrong during testing. How can we have so many people complaining about this? For me, this is a pretext because they cannot solve it (once again for years). Ok but then they should be clear, the SC will only come out where there are cars stopped on the track.

if this is (wrongly) implemented, then Ok. The game is designed like this.

[ostendorfjens 41]

I guess the main problem is that the Codies need to be told that there are several places where cars that don't finish the race because of technical issues would never park, like the aforementioned fast corner in Melbourne. It's just not what would happen in real life. But in the end, this is just a game, it's not reality, and in some cases, it even fails spectacularly at resembling real life, like the situations we're talking about here.

Bottom line is, I don't think you could call this a bug, more a real inconsistent way of dealing with safety cars/VSCs.

That said, I'd love to see the things you complain about being changed, just as you do.

[RS Phil 214]

Totally agree but the lack of reaction from them is irritating if like they are ignoring it.

[RS Phil 214]

@BarryBL while we are speaking of SC, I would like to have your opinion about this one.

Should the SC come out (or VSC)?

My opinion is that the car is in a dangerous position and IRL SC would come out but in the game? I think this is important and could explain why many players are complaining about SC not coming out.

Thanks for your answer.

[ChasteWand 178]

On 8/11/2020 at 1:40 PM, RS Phil said:

Totally agree but the lack of reaction from them is irritating if like they are ignoring it. 

Codemasters attitude in the 19 game was that there was nothing wrong with the saftey car at all, working as designed was the official line. However by Jan (iirc) the admission was made that there was a problem and the frequency of deployment and logic was tweaked.

History is repeating no doubt, though if they admit there is a problem this time round is anyone's guess!

It is my observation that the desire to add new features, r+d, driver transfers, my team etc. means bugs and issues from previous iterations of the game don't get addressed. It also takes two or more iterations before the new features work correctly. The f1 games are stuck in a cycle of one step forward, two back, endlessly tail chasing to fix legacy bugs in the new release.

Having bought all the games since codemasters got the license (since 15 only buying after all patches were released), for the first time I didn't bother with the 19 game. I am tempted to try the 20 game. More realistic handling appeals to me, however the legacy issues like the saftey car are turn off. My team does not appeal to me at all, and appears to be the most bugged aspect of the game.

I wish the core game was given some attention rather than the endless quest for new features that are inevitably buggy and unpolished at the first attempt.

Edited August 22 by ChasteWand

[RS Phil 214]

This is a great game, probably the best F1 they release but the SC feature is inconsistent. I’m a professional developer and I can’t imagine they cannot fix through the years although it’s an essential component.

They need to tell us when exactly a SC or VSC is needed and when not. Because if you compare to real life, this does not work (coming too often or very rarely).

If they fix this, they have a solid base this year to build new features for next years but I agree with you: first fix things before adding new ones. Unfortunately there is a commercial reality.