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Logitech G923 button support for F1 2019/20 on Xbox

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Hi all,

First post here, so please be gentle!

Is anyone aware of the level of button support for the new Logitech G923 wheel for F1 2019/20 on Xbox?

The new G923 wheel features more buttons and dials than it’s predecessor, the G920.

I know there are issues with buttons not being supported on F1 2019 on the G920 wheel (like the LSB/RSB buttons), and so was wondering if this will be addressed with the new G923 wheel.

Any information on the above is greatly appreciated!

Monzie

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Monzie83 said:

Hi all,

First post here, so please be gentle!

Is anyone aware of the level of button support for the new Logitech G923 wheel for F1 2019/20 on Xbox?

The new G923 wheel features more buttons and dials than it’s predecessor, the G920.

I know there are issues with buttons not being supported on F1 2019 on the G920 wheel (like the LSB/RSB buttons), and so was wondering if this will be addressed with the new G923 wheel.

Any information on the above is greatly appreciated!

Monzie

***UPDATE - To anyone else on the forum with the same question...***

It would appear from the linked video that the additional buttons on the G923 are not supported for certain games on the Xbox - in my case the F1 games.

It’s not clear from the video if the chap has configured his buttons properly (I doubt this is the case), and also not sure on whose doorstep this issue lies (have heard from some it’s Microsoft not opening up the controller software, others saying it’s a Codemaster issue).

I have pre-ordered a G923 and will report back if the additional buttons work on F1 2019 once I have the unit.

 

Edited by Monzie83
Typos, clarification of message content

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29 minutes ago, Monzie83 said:

Am not sure if the chap has configured his buttons properly (I doubt this is the case), and also not sure on whose doorstep this issue lies (have heard from some it’s Microsoft not opening up the controller software, others saying it’s a Codemaster issue).

Xbox runs on Xinput for controllers, which is Microsofts propriatry controller API/Software. So any wheels and controllers on Xbox can only use whatever fuctionality Microsoft allow withing Xinput, from my understanding.

PC, on the other hand, uses direct input. Which is why we can use any and all buttons on wheel and controllers, so long as the game allows for controller remapping.

As for the G923 specifically. I personally wouldnt bother with it, or even advise purchasing it. Internally, its no better than the G920 and G29 that it replaces. It has the same motor and plastic cog design as the G920/G29. It puts out the same torque range. Trueforce runs through the motors, which increases the noise levels even more. Not to mention that for the money logitech are asking for it, you can buy a Thrustmaster TX (for xbox) with a set of T3PA pedals, or a Thrustmaster T300 RS-GT (for PS4) which includes a set of T3PA pedals in the box. They are much better wheels, full belt drive systems, better motors, stronger force feedback. Not to mention you can change the wheel rims, to which Thrustmaster sell everything from Rally rims to F1 rims. Not to mention the T3PA pedals are better than Logitech pedals, with a higher resolution. And Thrustmaster now also have a new set of pedals that features a load cell brake. A Load cell brake is considured as a prime upgrade in sim racing.

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44 minutes ago, Ialyrn said:

Xbox runs on Xinput for controllers, which is Microsofts propriatry controller API/Software. So any wheels and controllers on Xbox can only use whatever fuctionality Microsoft allow withing Xinput, from my understanding.

PC, on the other hand, uses direct input. Which is why we can use any and all buttons on wheel and controllers, so long as the game allows for controller remapping.

As for the G923 specifically. I personally wouldnt bother with it, or even advise purchasing it. Internally, its no better than the G920 and G29 that it replaces. It has the same motor and plastic cog design as the G920/G29. It puts out the same torque range. Trueforce runs through the motors, which increases the noise levels even more. Not to mention that for the money logitech are asking for it, you can buy a Thrustmaster TX (for xbox) with a set of T3PA pedals, or a Thrustmaster T300 RS-GT (for PS4) which includes a set of T3PA pedals in the box. They are much better wheels, full belt drive systems, better motors, stronger force feedback. Not to mention you can change the wheel rims, to which Thrustmaster sell everything from Rally rims to F1 rims. Not to mention the T3PA pedals are better than Logitech pedals, with a higher resolution. And Thrustmaster now also have a new set of pedals that features a load cell brake. A Load cell brake is considured as a prime upgrade in sim racing.

Thank you for the information @Ialyrn regarding the input connections - this is good to know. If the issue is with Microsoft xinput, then I highly doubt it’ll be resolved soon 😞

Also, as I only play on Xbox (and as you say, this is limited by xinput), wouldn’t I have similar issues with additional “unsupported” buttons on all other manufacturer wheels - as I assume xinput only allows inputs that “mirror” the Xbox controller buttons?

I guess this also then begs the question about why Logitech would release a wheel that wasn’t fully supported on Xbox - perhaps this was a move to bring some parity between their PS and Xbox wheel offerings, which was obviously different between the G29 and G920.

As an aside, do you happen to know if the additional buttons on the G29 (when compared to the G920) are accessible on Codemaster F1 titles on PlayStation? Perhaps I bought the wrong platform 😂

As you can probably tell, I am a casual sim racer and fairly new to the plethora of devices available. I have looked at the Thrustmaster range, but I can’t stretch that far for something I’ll only play on the weekends (in the UK the Xbox TX servo base alone is around £250 with everything else on top) and I managed to get a good discount to get the G923 for the about this price).

I had borrowed a G920 from a friend and found it sufficient for my needs, the only issue being a lack of additional buttons to map fuel mix, brake bias and differential comfortably on the wheel, away from using the MFD option (which is horrible to use mid-race). 

Monzie

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Monzie83 said:

I managed to get a good discount to get the G923 for the about this price).

If you got a good discount, thats fair enough. But I wasnt aware anyone other than Logitech was offering the G923 on preorder here in the UK at the moment. Even so, I am curious as to where you found a pre-order below the RRP on a device that currently isnt on the open market. Any chance you are able to share that information for others?

The current amount Logitech want for the wheel out the gate is actually quite insulting. And this is coming from someone who owns a Logitech G27 and a Logitech G920, as well as a Thrustmaster T300 RS-GT.
 

1 hour ago, Monzie83 said:

As an aside, do you happen to know if the additional buttons on the G29 (when compared to the G920) are accessible on Codemaster F1 titles on PlayStation? Perhaps I bought the wrong platform 😂

I have no idea, I dont have a playstation, just an Xbox and a gaming PC. I primarily game on PC, hence the T300 RS-GT I currently use. I do know the LSB and RSB buttons have never worked on the Xbox with the G920, and I would be very surprised if they work on the G923 Xbox version (in case you wasnt aware, there are still 2 wheels, a playstation version, and an Xbox version). As for the rotery encoder and any additional buttons the G923 has over the G920 it replaces, I cant tell you without having one in my hands to test.

I do know that internally, the G923 is using the exact same motors and cog design that the Logitech G27 used back in 2010, which was only slightly changed from the G25 which released in 2006 (they changed the cogs from straight cut gears to helical gears to cut down on noise). So its 14 year old tech that just hasnt changed. The true force addition in the new wheel, is due to a change in the PCB and wheel firmware (as well as software in games updated to use the new fuctionality). And the wheel, at its RRP, is supposed to be £349.99.

Obvisouly for the Xbox side of things, I would always recommend the Thrustmaster TX Leather Wheel Edition, which has T3PA pedals in the box. Retails for £399 from Thrustmaster directly. Alternativly, there is also the Thrustmaster TMX Pro wheel (pro versions has the T3PA pedals). The belt drive system is sort of sacrificed (its a dual belt/cog hybrid design), and it should retail somewhere around £239, but I have seen it at £200 dead before. So things to keep in mind, even if just giving future advice to others looking to get into sim racing.

On the playstation side of the fence however, the T300 RS-GT, which also has the T3PA pedals in the box, sells for £369 from Thrustmaster directly.

There is a computer store in Birmingham called "BOX" which sells sim racing gear (Thrustmaster and Logitech wheels included), they often have the Thrustmaster wheels on discount. For example, I purchased my T300 RS-GT from them for £269.99 all in. I swear by them for computer hardware and simulation gear. To the point I recently spent £1800 just on parts for a new gaming PC, and also purchased a £1400 MSI gaming laptop from them just over a year ago for gaming on the go. So yeh, never let me down yet. I can highly recommend them as a shop to use here in the UK.

Box and Thrustmaster store links -

https://www.box.co.uk/

https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/

p.s sorry for the big posts, I have a bad habit of making sure I give as much information as possible in posts like these 😅
 

Edited by Ialyrn
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

If you got a good discount, thats fair enough. But I wasnt aware anyone other than Logitech was offering the G923 on preorder here in the UK at the moment. Even so, I am curious as to where you found a pre-order below the RRP on a device that currently isnt on the open market. Any chance you are able to share that information for others?

Hi @Ialyrn, I have a mate who got me the discount at PC world - they are also offering the G923 on pre-order.

15 hours ago, Ialyrn said:

p.s sorry for the big posts, I have a bad habit of making sure I give as much information as possible in posts like these 😅

Thank you for the information. I will certainly consider it when I am able to stretch to a higher-end setup.

For the moment, my main need from a wheel is additional button support, rather than a more immersive experience, so I can comfortably use car adjustments mid-race without MFD on F1 2019/20 (obviously I don't want a completely basic wheel either, and you've probably guessed I only play the F1 sims). Given this and the fact I am currently wedded to Xbox, wouldn't I have the same issues on any manufacturer wheel with a greater number of buttons/ switches/ dials etc because the inputs are limited by Xinput? Or are there some wheels out there with a large number of buttons which are supported on F1 2019/20 for Xbox? This would be good to know for the future.

Monzie

Edited by Monzie83

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Monzie83 said:

Hi @Ialyrn, did you have a response regarding my question?

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Its all going to depend on what Microsoft allow. Without having a G923 in my hands to test, I cant tell you which buttons on the device work or dont work. I also can not confirm which buttons on the Thrustmaster side of the fence will work/not work either, since I no longer have an xbox commpatible Thrustmaster device. Though the core wheels tend to have the same amount of buttons, with a few outliers like the F1 wheel having a few extra buttons.

All I can do is tell you what I know from publically available information, and only make guesses and speculations based upon that. -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectInput

"Microsoft has not made any major changes to DirectInput since DirectX 8, and introduced XInput later in DirectX 9: there remains some confusion about the current status and future of the two APIs.

The XInput API also as of 2010 has limits that DirectInput does not:

  • XInput supports only "next generation" controllers. This limits it basically to controllers for the Xbox 360 that also have Windows drivers. Legacy Windows controllers, joysticks and generalized haptic feedback devices are not supported.
  • XInput supports a maximum of four controllers at a time. This is an Xbox limit, carried over to Windows. Although as of 2010 few PC games require more than four controllers at once, DirectInput itself has no such limitation.
  • XInput does not support keyboards, mice, or mouse-type devices. While this mirrors Microsoft's recommendation not to use DirectInput with these devices,[11] programmers can use DirectInput with these devices.
  • XInput supports maximum of 4 axes, 10 buttons, 2 triggers and 8-direction digital pad per controller, compared to DirectInput's support for 8 axes, 128 buttons, and full-range POV. (The number of axes, buttons and triggers XInput supports corresponds directly to the Xbox 360 controller.)

Advantage of XInput over DirectInput:

As of 2011 XInput is for Xbox 360 controllers, while DirectInput is for any controller. In XInput 1.4 introduced with Windows 8 support of querying for headset devices was reintroduced."

I do know some games "can" allow other things, such as Project cars 2 on the Xbox will apperently allow some keyboard inputs; which can essentially be setup as a button box. But again, I can not confirm, as I have never tried. So its really going to be a case of trial by error, as well as on a game by game basis. There is also the conundrum posed by shifter devices also, since they classify as "buttons" in most cases.

So really, the only people that can answer your questions with any form of accuracy, would be Microsoft themselves.

This is why I didnt respond to your further questions, because I just dont know; and anything I could add would be pure speculation and assumptions.

 

Edited by Ialyrn
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@Ialyrn Thank you so much for the very detailed response.

I’ve also been doing some research, and I think you’re right - the issue with Xinput on Xbox seems to extend to all wheels and none seem to have an advantage over another in the button department.

I have read however, that keyboard support is available on F1 2019 on Xbox, with some users on Reddit saying they use a number pad as a cheap and cheerful button box. I’m going to give this a try when I get my G923 (if the additional buttons on it are not supported).

When I can get an appropriate budget together I’ll probably move off Xbox altogether and onto PC for sim racing as a first step. That way I’ll have more flexibility for buttons and better high-end devices going forwards.

Thank you for all your advice, and I’m happy to report back on my experiences with the G923/ number pad button box workaround if that would interest you.

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37 minutes ago, Monzie83 said:

@Ialyrn Thank you so much for the very detailed response.

I’ve also been doing some research, and I think you’re right - the issue with Xinput on Xbox seems to extend to all wheels and none seem to have an advantage over another in the button department.

I have read however, that keyboard support is available on F1 2019 on Xbox, with some users on Reddit saying they use a number pad as a cheap and cheerful button box. I’m going to give this a try when I get my G923 (if the additional buttons on it are not supported).

When I can get an appropriate budget together I’ll probably move off Xbox altogether and onto PC for sim racing as a first step. That way I’ll have more flexibility for buttons and better high-end devices going forwards.

Thank you for all your advice, and I’m happy to report back on my experiences with the G923/ number pad button box workaround if that would interest you.

If you get into sim racing in general, PC is absolutly the best platform for it. Assetto Corsa for instance pales in comparison on the Xbox/PS4, the PC version has so much more to offer in terms of mods and even VR and triple screen support.

There are also a whole host of devices and applications which can be used to make sim racing more immersive, from the obvious button boxes, to even full custom made dashboards that can go as far as using IRL dashboard clusters. Not to mention been able to mix and match sim hardware as well, so you could use that G923 with a set of Fanatec pedals using the Fanatec USB adaptor, or use the Thrustmaster TH8A shifter instead of the logitech shifter. The possibilities really are endless.

 

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Hi there.

The extra controls and the RPM LEDs are only possible on Xbox because of the extra SDK that we created to enable Trueforce on Xbox.  Developers who incorporate Trueforce support therefore have the option of enabling those extra functions too - ACC does, for example.

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@LogiUK, thank you for letting me know. Do you know if trueforce will eventually be supported on F1 2019/20 for Xbox? And if so what is the expected ETA on this?

Many thanks!

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2020 at 10:29 PM, Ialyrn said:

I do know some games "can" allow other things, such as Project cars 2 on the Xbox will apperently allow some keyboard inputs; which can essentially be setup as a button box. But again, I can not confirm, as I have never tried

I wouldn't expect any of extra buttons on the G923 to work in F1 on Xbox, considering the LSB & RSB buttons still do not work on the G920, whereas they do in other games such as Assetto Corsa or Project Cars 2. Ultimately they are the left and right stick buttons so why CM have so much trouble integrating them into the F1 series is beyond me. If they add the "Trueforce" tingle before this, I honestly give up. 

Edited by Rango

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@Rango, from the comment by @LogiUK above it would seem those extra buttons/dials can work on the G923, IF CM support Trueforce on their games (which they’re bound to do at some point).

LogiUK also says F1 2020 support for Trueforce is being worked on - whether CM incorporate the additional buttons is unknown.

Reading between the lines, I think the end result of all of this does mean those RSB and LSB buttons on the G920 are unlikely to be supported in the future, since G920 does not have Trueforce, unless CM make a concerted effort to find a way to enable them.

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The G923 has exactly the same buttons as the G920 in terms of the LSB/RSB, so IF cm do manage to incorporate Trueforce I would hope that they also look to unlock the function of these buttons for it which surely can only help for it to work on G920? 

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9 hours ago, Rango said:

The G923 has exactly the same buttons as the G920 in terms of the LSB/RSB, so IF cm do manage to incorporate Trueforce I would hope that they also look to unlock the function of these buttons for it which surely can only help for it to work on G920? 

Good point @Rango, I really do hope they can find a way.

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On 8/26/2020 at 5:50 PM, LogiUK said:

@Monzie83 They're working on support in F1 2020 at the moment.

@LogiUK, would you happen to have any updates on this?

In particular it would be good to know if the additional button support will come on F1 2020, as I bought Grid to check out Trueforce - the wheel does behave differently and the rev lights do work. However, the additional buttons/ dial aren’t available for mapping.

So I am keen to know if this will be the case on F1 2020 when Trueforce support is released.

I appreciate any information you can share.

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