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Toe and differential


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Any one found a good balance for the toe for career/ Grand Prix modes as like most in tt I just run top 2 all to right bottom 2 all to left but I get bad tyre wear in GP modes with that plus what is the best differential to run using a pad on medium traction as currently running 65 per cent but car is very twitchy on traction .

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Well, this is all circuit dependant as different asphalt, weather conditions and car performance will require different settings. Less cambered rear tyres will provide better longitudinal traction, that is accelerating in a straight line, but if you're not struggling with tyre temps and wear, you might want more camber on tracks with longer corners. Your figures are very peaky, meaning they might provide a higher absolute amount of grip, but it's not sustainable over a stint as you mentioned (I also think tyre wear and temps are disabled in TT? So that's negatives the biggest flaw with those figures). Try moving the figures back towards the centre. In fact, higher Rear Toe (towards the right) is better for stability. This is all coupled with Tyre pressures, anti-roll bars and, diff though. Your 65% diff is in the ball pack of where I start, though I manage it throughout a stint, opening it as the tyres wear. Perhaps try this or initially starting 5/10% lower? A softer rear anti roll bar can help with rear stability, and lower rear tyre pressures will give you good traction in slow speed and makes the car softer as well, as the tyre flex is one of the biggest components of the "suspension" (not sure how well these specific tyre physics are replicated in the game though).

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7 hours ago, Naxlr said:

Any one found a good balance for the toe for career/ Grand Prix modes as like most in tt I just run top 2 all to right bottom 2 all to left but I get bad tyre wear in GP modes with that plus what is the best differential to run using a pad on medium traction as currently running 65 per cent but car is very twitchy on traction .

Camber to the right and toe to the left should give you minimum tyre wear. If it's not the case it's due to other parts of the setup/bad combinations...

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To me it feels like these settings barely do anything. I can usually achieve the same times in TT with max cambers or minimum cambers. Rear toe is the most useful of these in my opinion. In this game the time is not made up in cornering speeds, but rather how early you are able to put the power down on the exits. This can be seen in TT setups easily where the wing settings are something like 2-6 most of the time.

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Toe Out (slider to the right) for rear is great for stability, toe in for front I have slider hovering around the middle.

 

Camber I believe should stay to the left on slider to stop tyre wear?

Tyre pressures for rears I have very low.

 

Honestly with differentials, apart with wet conditions I really struggle to see what this does in dry conditions- has always boggled me

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@Turtlemoose F1 cars use toe in in the rear axle and that's what you're adjusting on the respective slider. Haha I doubt you'd be able to stay within track limits for long on any change of direction if you were to run around with toe out on the rear wheels – and this goes from adjusting your racing line on a straight to exiting a corner.

Toe in is all about stability. Toe out is set with your car's responsiveness in mind and that comes at play on the front axle in a F1 car. You add some toe in to the rear wheels and your car will feel more planted and disinclined to oversteer – maybe even risking understeering too much if not properly setup.

For tyre wear you should aim for a neutral toe as an angle of any kind (in or out) results in you dragging part of your tyres over the tarmac. The tyre rolling axis or so to say is not perfectly aligned with the movement direction.

Slider to the right: more toe, regardless if toe in or toe out. Slider to the left, less toe, regardless if toe in or toe out. 

Camber should "stay on the right" to avoid tyre wear. It is just the way the UI is presented but if you read the in-game description it gets clear as day: F1 cars (and pretty much any racing car) use negative camber adjustments to set a proper contact patch between tyre and tarmac at all times. Negative camber makes the bottom of the wheel stick out to the outside of the car so that when you make a turn and the car rolls sideways, leaning on the outside wheels, these wheels have good grip on the track.

Your mileage may vary but to me personally after I've spent some 20 or more minutes adjusting my setup, sometimes it is a single click on toe or camber settings that does the trick.

Tyre pressure is not that simple neither unless you're playing on Time Trials, where the tyre will never give on you.

Tyre pressure is all about how rigid of a structure you have on your rubber.

High tyre pressure will give you a more rigid tyre that won't flex much when the car rolls. On one hand your wheel will be more responsive to any steering input and with the little flexing it is doing it won't wear out as much as a result of physical abrasion with the tarmac, but you will have less rubber on the track and thus less grip as the tyre won't hug the track as well. The increased pressure may result in a hotter tyre too.  

Low tyre pressure will give you a softer structure that will flex and hug the tarmac better. On one hand your grip will be as good as your suspension geometry allows it and have a lower general temperature. On the other so much flexing will increase the rubber patch being worn by the constant scrubbing against the asphalt, increasing tyre wear.

Bear in mind that high pressure is conducive to higher tyre temperature, but the tarmac abrasion your lower pressurized tyres have increases the temperature too. Tyre wear has two sources: tyre degradation from heat and physical abrasion from the scrubbing against the track.

Edit:

Quote

Honestly with differentials, apart with wet conditions I really struggle to see what this does in dry conditions- has always boggled me

Forgot this bit.

Set the off-throttle diff to 100 and go for a lap on Barcelona and then set it on 50 and go for another lap. The difference will pop up easily. The amount of understeer you'll get with a locked off power diff. makes it impossible to drive on circuits with tight turns. 

Edited by marioho
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On 8/15/2020 at 10:52 PM, marioho said:

Camber should "stay on the right" to avoid tyre wear. It is just the way the UI is presented but if you read the in-game description it gets clear as day: F1 cars (and pretty much any racing car) use negative camber adjustments to set a proper contact patch between tyre and tarmac at all times. Negative camber makes the bottom of the wheel stick out to the outside of the car so that when you make a turn and the car rolls sideways, leaning on the outside wheels, these wheels have good grip on the track.

Your mileage may vary but to me personally after I've spent some 20 or more minutes adjusting my setup, sometimes it is a single click on toe or camber settings that does the trick.

 So having the sliders for Camber to the right is better for performance and also tyre wear?

My ideal toe setup is that for the front i have it one quarter across the slider and for the back I have it three quarters of a way across the slider.

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1 hour ago, Turtlemoose said:

So having the sliders for Camber to the right is better for performance and also tyre wear?

Haha if dialing a setting in a given direction would be simultaneously worse for performance and for tyre wear why would anyone even consider such a change?

Camber is not straight forward, mate. In a track full of corners with mixed speeds and paltry straights you've got much more performance to gain by cambering your wheels for more grip when turning. 

Looks like you're dealing with absolutes here? Is that's indeed the case, there is no magic number in any setting, mate. Not one slider that remains the same across all tracks. 

You'll get much better performance by adding negative camber to your wheels on a track like Spain, but that setup will fry your tyres AND give you poor straight performance (specifically acceleration and braking) on a track like Monza. You should never expect one solution to work across the whole calendar.

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8 minutes ago, marioho said:

Haha if dialing a setting in a given direction would be simultaneously worse for performance and for tyre wear why would anyone even consider such a change?

Camber is not straight forward, mate. In a track full of corners with mixed speeds and paltry straights you've got much more performance to gain by cambering your wheels for more grip when turning. 

Looks like you're dealing with absolutes here? Is that's indeed the case, there is no magic number in any setting, mate. Not one slider that remains the same across all tracks. 

You'll get much better performance by adding negative camber to your wheels on a track like Spain, but that setup will fry your tyres AND give you poor straight performance (specifically acceleration and braking) on a track like Monza. You should never expect one solution to work across the whole calendar.

This is called compromise and this is the magic word of settings.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi guys,

Old topic but I am still working my way around this one. This is very useful info and I think I am painfully slowly starting to understand Camber and Toe as for setting up the car to my liking.

Just wanted to confirm if possible the following. I am trying to set up Brasil in the Dry starting on Preset 4, so irrespective of other settings (which is dumb but that is just for my understanding):

I am starting as a baseline with :

  • Front camber : -2.5
  • Rear camber : -1.0
  • Front toe : 0,05
  • Rear toe : 0.50

So this a right right left right camber and toe settings, based on what is being said I should get :

  • Camber : Good straight line speed / optimal tyre wear
  • Toe : Optimised stability

Translating to Brasil, good sector 1 and 3 but very very poor sector 2.

Now I want to find improve the overall balance :

  • Front camber : moving to -3.5 will provide
    • More cornering speed
    • More tyre wear and higher temps 
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Rear camber : moving to -2.0 will provide
    • More cornering speed
    • More tyre wear and higher temps
    • Less traction on corner exits
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Front Toe : moving to 0.15 will have a
    • More responsive front (better corner entry?)
    • Less stable front
    • More drag hence more front tyre wear and front higher temps
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Rear Toe : moving to 0.20 will have a
    • More lively rear (prone to spin?)
    • Better turn in ability as the rear follows the front more easily
    • Less drag hence less rear tyre wear and rear lower temps
    • Improved straight line speed

Is this understanding even remotely correct? As you guys said it is all about compromises though if this is right, I may be able to improve sector 2 haha

Cheers

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9 hours ago, CYRCA7 said:

Hi guys,

Old topic but I am still working my way around this one. This is very useful info and I think I am painfully slowly starting to understand Camber and Toe as for setting up the car to my liking.

Just wanted to confirm if possible the following. I am trying to set up Brasil in the Dry starting on Preset 4, so irrespective of other settings (which is dumb but that is just for my understanding):

I am starting as a baseline with :

  • Front camber : -2.5
  • Rear camber : -1.0
  • Front toe : 0,05
  • Rear toe : 0.50

So this a right right left right camber and toe settings, based on what is being said I should get :

  • Camber : Good straight line speed / optimal tyre wear
  • Toe : Optimised stability

Translating to Brasil, good sector 1 and 3 but very very poor sector 2.

Now I want to find improve the overall balance :

  • Front camber : moving to -3.5 will provide
    • More cornering speed
    • More tyre wear and higher temps 
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Rear camber : moving to -2.0 will provide
    • More cornering speed
    • More tyre wear and higher temps
    • Less traction on corner exits
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Front Toe : moving to 0.15 will have a
    • More responsive front (better corner entry?)
    • Less stable front
    • More drag hence more front tyre wear and front higher temps
    • Lower straight line speed
  • Rear Toe : moving to 0.20 will have a
    • More lively rear (prone to spin?)
    • Better turn in ability as the rear follows the front more easily
    • Less drag hence less rear tyre wear and rear lower temps
    • Improved straight line speed

Is this understanding even remotely correct? As you guys said it is all about compromises though if this is right, I may be able to improve sector 2 haha

Cheers

Well mate 1st we have to go for parts.. in the Camber Settings it's how most that.. it's true.. but you can't ONLY setting up your Camber without setting up your Suspension Stiffness and your Anti Roll Bars too.. I start always with minimal Settings in the Cambers and only use huge values in Monaco and Singapore Grand Prix.. the rest of season i set always (missing one click) to the right in Camber and (missing one click) to the left on Toe.. that works for me because I can get an fast Car Stable and not too aggressive for the tyres aswell.. but before of that I spend so many time setting the Aero and Suspension.. the last thing that you have to be always in mind is the tyre pressures because this year makes an huge difference and impact in your race Pace specific

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2 hours ago, CarlosSantos87 said:

the last thing that you have to be always in mind is the tyre pressures

This is exactly what I am aiming for, thanks for answering!

The process I am trying to replicate to create a setup to my liking is coming from SimRacingSetups. I found it consistent with trying to ensure tyre temps / wear for long distance races. Each time you change something, you have to obviously test it (medium compound, 20kg fuel, 5 laps). Improvements and loss are measured by how time you gain/loose on each sector, tyre wear/temps and car behavior.

I am probably overthink this but it feels ok for me to have a step by step process as I never really created a setup, which is basically :

  1. Go for a round with a defined preset (3 or 4)
  2. Refine tyre pressure to keep them in optimal temps and test
  3. Setup Camber / Toe and test
  4. Setup Roll bar and test
  5. Setup aero and test
  6. Setup suspension / rake

Each step you have to check your temps / wear and ultimately the goal is to have a car you can push with while having acceptable temps and wear.

Steps 4/5 and 5 are pretty straightforward to understand though difficult to "master" but Camber and Toe is another beast for me haha

 

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3 hours ago, CYRCA7 said:

This is exactly what I am aiming for, thanks for answering!

The process I am trying to replicate to create a setup to my liking is coming from SimRacingSetups. I found it consistent with trying to ensure tyre temps / wear for long distance races. Each time you change something, you have to obviously test it (medium compound, 20kg fuel, 5 laps). Improvements and loss are measured by how time you gain/loose on each sector, tyre wear/temps and car behavior.

I am probably overthink this but it feels ok for me to have a step by step process as I never really created a setup, which is basically :

  1. Go for a round with a defined preset (3 or 4)
  2. Refine tyre pressure to keep them in optimal temps and test
  3. Setup Camber / Toe and test
  4. Setup Roll bar and test
  5. Setup aero and test
  6. Setup suspension / rake

Each step you have to check your temps / wear and ultimately the goal is to have a car you can push with while having acceptable temps and wear.

Steps 4/5 and 5 are pretty straightforward to understand though difficult to "master" but Camber and Toe is another beast for me haha

 

We are here to help everyone mate.. I can advise you to 1st step set your Aero Settings.. it's the base and the Key to you be well suceded in the rest.. after set the suspension and Anti Roll Bars..Ride Height included.. keep in mind that for the Ride Height never put less than 5.. I use rake system in my setups and I feel very comfortable with them.. you can do like me.. I have a save file with a very very basic configuration and that is useful for how most all circuits.. I use that save and only do few tweaks depending on the circuit that I am driving.. that solves you a lot of time and helps you understand better and quicker what the specific difference affects your setup

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So after several trials and errors Camber and Toe did not seem to have much impact for me - only on tyre wear when Camber on its max (all the way to the left).

But your advice was good, I focused more on Aero / Suspension / ARB settings to provide a more conservative handling. It's only been 4 months since I am on a wheel with no assists so I'd rather loose some time while understeer mid corner than just loose it completely on corner exists with an agressive set up. I just don't have the skillset required yet.

Though all in all, I am not sure yet what I like as for car handling but I surely know what I don't like and most important how to correct it, so muchos gracias!

Cheers

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21 hours ago, CarlosSantos87 said:

We are here to help everyone mate.. I can advise you to 1st step set your Aero Settings.. it's the base and the Key to you be well suceded in the rest.. after set the suspension and Anti Roll Bars..Ride Height included.. keep in mind that for the Ride Height never put less than 5.. I use rake system in my setups and I feel very comfortable with them.. you can do like me.. I have a save file with a very very basic configuration and that is useful for how most all circuits.. I use that save and only do few tweaks depending on the circuit that I am driving.. that solves you a lot of time and helps you understand better and quicker what the specific difference affects your setup

Why the ride height never less than 5 - I thought getting the car as low to the ground as possible was desirable?  

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2 hours ago, dwin20 said:

Why the ride height never less than 5 - I thought getting the car as low to the ground as possible was desirable?  

It is desirable mate but I am talking about the point of less than 5 (ride height) in my opinion in this current F1 2020 game doesn't match.. you have to do the test for yourself and check your feedback.. in Career mode when you start upgrading your car you create a big amount and improve the Aerodynamic.. with that your Car gains drag but at the same time you gain corner speed and straight line speed aswell.. but in Codemasters programming and codes they how most sure on it they adapted a system generated to work on these things.. because this year's had been banned the Ballast weight settings so the best solution without loosing the reality's of the careers mode was input that method to work properly.. and had worked.. I can fully understand what they done and was a fantastic job.. conclusion.. because of that if you put an excessive lack of ride height you will be running with a car constantly touching the ground and you will loose top speed in the straights.. you will spin on fast corners when you touch the kerbs.. actually I am in my 6th season of MyTeam Career mode and I had done that test after saw it on the web some Pro Players (YouTubers) explaining the same situation that I had thinked before.. you should try mate and see

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