Traction vs No Traction - which is faster?

[HeroOfTime91 3]

I was looking at the TT times on a few tracks on this year's game and I was extremely surprised, and to be honest disappointed to see some assist runners top the leaderboard - I don't think that should ever be the case.

 

Does that mean in general they are very close this year in race trim as well? I just made the jump to no traction this year and I'm a league racer, unsure if I will continue with no traction if I feel disadvantaged.

Edited August 15 by HeroOfTime91

[HeroOfTime91 3]

Anyone?

[marioho 686]

I read your post earlier but really didn't have anything worth adding beyond the obvious.

https://youtu.be/QQez8jfJFhM

Yes, assisted driving gets a rebalancing from game to game and it did get one this year. ABS for instance has been making the rounds of the "is this assist too OP?" conversation from time to time.

TC on the other hand that would be a first for me. Looks like a solid improvement from last year to assist and no assist players alike. 

The edge is still there for the player to capitalize on as long as they have the skill to do so. 

Edit: leaderboards are another matter and should be easily fixed by adjusting the score penalty by running with assist on. That and purging the cheaters.

Edited August 16 by marioho

[RS Phil 214]

52 minutes ago, marioho said:

TC on the other hand that would be a first for me. Looks like a solid improvement from last year to assist and no assist players alike. 

 The edge is still there for the player to capitalize on as long as they have the skill to do so.

Perfectly sound. I also made the jump this year (not easy in the beginning) but so rewarding driving without assist. I think I’m quicker than last year. I mainly play offline career.

What do you think of setting the throttle linearity to 25 or even 50? It seems to help.

[marioho 686]

@RS Phil I don't remember my calibration settings by heart but I think it's around 20. It definitely helps, but there's no magic number.

What I did was tweak it all until I could consistently hit 20-25/50/75-80 percent throttle whenever I wanted. Spent a couple minutes there just randomly pressing the trigger to what I thought should be these marks and kept on adjusting until it felt natural. Ended up on 20 throttle linearity or something I think.

Edit: That calibration screen is worth its weight in gold. Everyone could benefit from playing around in it for a while.

Edited August 16 by marioho

[Rango 171]

I use a wheel & have personally found that while I'm slightly quicker without TC (made the jump recently so still working on it), race starts have become more difficult. Might be something to do with clutch though as using a button I'm less likely to spin out than with the pedal for some reason. 

Not going back though, determined to master it. There's usually anywhere between 1 & 3 corners where you have to be extra careful on the throttle though and it's harder to do on auto as early upshifts can help maintain control out of hairpins. 

[RS Phil 214]

4 minutes ago, Rango said:

I use a wheel & have personally found that while I'm slightly quicker without TC (made the jump recently so still working on it), race starts have become more difficult. Might be something to do with clutch though as using a button I'm less likely to spin out than with the pedal for some reason. 

Not going back though, determined to master it. There's usually anywhere between 1 & 3 corners where you have to be extra careful on the throttle though and it's harder to do on auto as early upshifts can help maintain control out of hairpins. 

Don’t give up because this was the cause I would not drive without TC. Last year I had so horrible start losing 5 to 6 places and driving in the wet was impossible. In F1 2020 I manage to do good start (not losing places) and wet weather is fine too.

[GnrDreagon 78]

All those people at the top of the leaderboards with assists turned on are cheaters, at least on PC. No way these people are seconds faster than some of the top esports guys.

[HeroOfTime91 3]

48 minutes ago, GnrDreagon said:

All those people at the top of the leaderboards with assists turned on are cheaters, at least on PC. No way these people are seconds faster than some of the top esports guys.

I think they are cheating on the Xbox side too, someone correct me if I am wrong but the top 2 in Bahrain are 4 tenths faster than the esports guys that don't use any assists.

[ragequit1 314]

It's embarrassing, I watch hotlap videos from reputable sources like the Veloce guys and when they go to the leaderboard and mentioning the cheaters that are residing in the top10...

[AvengerGR35 52]

When I first started 7 years ago I used full TC, ABS and full racing line. The maximum difficulty I could be competitive was 85. Now I don't use any assists (apart from the corner racing line) and I'm 5-6 seconds quicker and play on 104. Its mostly down to preference to be honest. Of course someone who uses full TC won't be as fast as someone who doesn't use TC at all. But Medium TC users can be as fast as non TC users.

[HeroOfTime91 3]

Yeah I'm just gonna keep to no traction as I am enjoying it, I hope if any fixes are needed to TT times or rebalancing of assists is needed codies will fix it

[Ultra3142 384]

10 minutes ago, HeroOfTime91 said:

Yeah I'm just gonna keep to no traction as I am enjoying it, I hope if any fixes are needed to TT times or rebalancing of assists is needed codies will fix it

Personally I think it's far too late for Codemasters to do any form of 'rebalancing'. I'd just focus on your own challenge and achievements and not worry about this.

[marioho 686]

1 hour ago, Ultra3142 said:

Personally I think it's far too late for Codemasters to do any form of 'rebalancing'.

In what sense? Because those "0.02% more/less" fixes have been done in the past and if I'm not mistaken one of the F1 2020 patches had one such fix in it for slipstream or dirty air I think?

[Ultra3142 384]

7 hours ago, marioho said:

In what sense? Because those "0.02% more/less" fixes have been done in the past and if I'm not mistaken one of the F1 2020 patches had one such fix in it for slipstream or dirty air I think?

I've not read anything to suggest any patches on F1 2020 have changed the game physics? 

I'm not familiar with the precedent from previous games. My reasoning for it being too late for a major change relating to assist performance relates to it needing all TT leaderboards to be reset, and people part-way through leagues and career modes having results so far undermined. Plus many players having spent a considerable amount of time learning to play with the current performance model.

[marioho 686]

I'm on mobile right now but I think there was an entry in one of F1 2020 patch notes about a balancing change specific to xbox players.

But TT is only one facet of the whole thing, no? CM could output a balance patch today for the assists and we all could benefit from it yet, not only for the offline playing but for new leagues, new weekly events and online competitions. TT is tiny related to that.

This, and the actual possibility of CM purging the leaderboards. I don't put much faith in this one myself, but that's I don't see it supplanting other priorities any time soon.

[BarryBL 4,319]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:49 AM, HeroOfTime91 said:

I was looking at the TT times on a few tracks on this year's game and I was extremely surprised, and to be honest disappointed to see some assist runners top the leaderboard - I don't think that should ever be the case.

 

Does that mean in general they are very close this year in race trim as well? I just made the jump to no traction this year and I'm a league racer, unsure if I will continue with no traction if I feel disadvantaged.

Hi @HeroOfTime91,

I can assure you that running without TC is a faster solution. Pre-working for CM, I ran with full TC as I just played for fun on a Friday night before going to see my friends. Since dropping to 'Medium' TC, I found around 2 seconds a lap. Also, in the rare instance I nail a lap without TC at all (hard to do with not so much practice these days), I'm 0.8 to a second quicker.

Running without TC would give you a pace advantage, its just a little (or, for me, a lot) harder. 

[marioho 686]

3 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Pre-working for CM, I ran with full TC as I just played for fun on a Friday night before going to see my friends. 

What are you talking about? What is Friday night? What is going out to see friends?

Is this one more of those fabled stories about how life was before COVID-19?

[BarryBL 4,319]

2 minutes ago, marioho said:

What are you talking about? What is Friday night? What is going out to see friends?

Is this one more of those fabled stories about how life was before COVID-19?

100% before COVID. The good old days. Drink and career mode with 2018. Using a wheel stand made of the glass dining table, which was a bold strategy with hindsight. Had to have FFB on about 25 because I was terrified of shattering the table. No wonder it took me 3 years to win the WDC in that year of the game. 

[Ultra3142 384]

58 minutes ago, marioho said:

But TT is only one facet of the whole thing, no? CM could output a balance patch today for the assists and we all could benefit from it yet, not only for the offline playing but for new leagues, new weekly events and online competitions. TT is tiny related to that.

This, and the actual possibility of CM purging the leaderboards. I don't put much faith in this one myself, but that's I don't see it supplanting other priorities any time soon.

The reasoning I posted went beyond time trial . Although for those who have spent a long time getting good TT times a reset of the leaderboards is not something that is likely to be taken lightly. And they would NEED to be reset as far as I'm concerned as the times currently on there would no longer be able to be replicated with identical settings and user performance.

[HeroOfTime91 3]

1 hour ago, BarryBL said:

Hi @HeroOfTime91,

I can assure you that running without TC is a faster solution. Pre-working for CM, I ran with full TC as I just played for fun on a Friday night before going to see my friends. Since dropping to 'Medium' TC, I found around 2 seconds a lap. Also, in the rare instance I nail a lap without TC at all (hard to do with not so much practice these days), I'm 0.8 to a second quicker.

Running without TC would give you a pace advantage, its just a little (or, for me, a lot) harder. 

Alright cool that is good to hear, I thought so as I feel faster with no traction. I just was beginning to doubt it when I saw people running ABS, Traction and Auto Gear Box as number 1 and number 2 in the leaderboards in Bahrain on Xbox ( other tracks as well I believe) Hopefully their times will be removed if they are cheating, which seems certain.

Edited August 17 by HeroOfTime91

[Ultra3142 384]

2 hours ago, BarryBL said:

100% before COVID. The good old days. Drink and career mode with 2018. Using a wheel stand made of the glass dining table, which was a bold strategy with hindsight. Had to have FFB on about 25 because I was terrified of shattering the table. No wonder it took me 3 years to win the WDC in that year of the game. 

Was your TC anecdote possibly not for F1 2020 then?

[BarryBL 4,319]

11 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Was your TC anecdote possibly not for F1 2020 then?

Upgraded from the glass table, and I race in the forum championships on a Friday instead of on my own. I've managed to become somewhat consistent on TC medium at a good pace, just time actually practicing my skills over testing bugs has become limited. 

But I like fighting for the points. The midfield is fun!

[Ultra3142 384]

3 minutes ago, BarryBL said:

Upgraded from the glass table, and I race in the forum championships on a Friday instead of on my own. I've managed to become somewhat consistent on TC medium at a good pace, just time actually practicing my skills over testing bugs has become limited. 

But I like fighting for the points. The midfield is fun!

Have you compared medium to no TC on F1 2020 though?

(I'm using medium myself at the moment. Trying to decide whether to switch this or ABS off next.)

[BarryBL 4,319]

Just now, Ultra3142 said:

Have you compared medium to no TC on F1 2020 though?

(I'm using medium myself at the moment. Trying to decide whether to switch this or ABS off next.)

I have, briefly to the same result. If I can hook a lap up, its a big improvement for me, about the 0.6 to 0.8 range for me. 

I guess, from a drivers perspective, its risk vs reward. I couldn't yet run a race with TC totally off, especially with the lack of practice and the 'compromised' office arrangement (I prefer wheel). But its that ultimate pace, then removing assists is better for sure.