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DiRT Rally 2.0 World Series - 2020 Season

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just to clarify for the unlock do you have to just do one stage of a rally or that rally's whole event?

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Introduction

Having watched the first Quarter-Finals, and having read the Sporting Regulations, I'd like to give my feedback on the overall esports format used in the first and second season of the DiRT World Series (DWS). Starting with the first DWS, this season was focused too much on cutthroat action and methodically practiced single-race pace. Instead it should have aimed to provide fairer action and require consistent pace. Similarly, the second DWS is seemingly focusing on the same cutthroat action and single-race pace, rather than the aforementioned fairer action and consistent pace. That said, the second season has improved on some of these areas, particularly where the Rally discipline is concerned. There are more races in both the Quarter- and Semi-Finals than before, and they account for a cumulative pace, which promotes consistency over pace. I wish I could say the same for Rallycross, but the current format still mostly neglects the results of any race that isn't the final race. There are two ways to achieve a fairer competition that focuses on consistency and really aims to be what both Rally and Rallycross should be about. 

Changes to the tournament format

The first solution would be to slightly transform the existing format to focus on the aforementioned key aspects. For the RX Quarter- and Semi-Finals you could make every single race take place at a different RX track, and have it count towards the final results by rewarding drivers points (8-6-4-3-1) based on their finishing position. Doing this for a Quarter-Final with just 3 races would see the finals focusing more on consistent results, rather than focusing on one single race. The starting grids for the first race could either be seeded based on an off-stream qualifying race, or the order of qualifying for the Quarter-/Semi-Finals. Potentially you'd be able to use the exact same cars and locations you used for the Qualifiers, as you did for the second DWS' Rally Quarter-Finals. This same process could be repeated for the RX Grand Final, except there would be more races, further enhancing the need for consistent results. This would also limit the impact of unlucky incidents, bugs or other inconveniences.

Following the success of the staggered stage format in the first DWS' Rally Grand Final, I think you'd need to capitalize on that for the second DWS' Rally Grand Final. This could potentially be done by dividing the Rally Grand Final into 2 sets of 3 stages, where each stage would be at a different location. Each stage would either award points based on the results, or count towards a cumulative time. At the end of the first 3 stages, the top 3 drivers with either the most points or the fastest cumulative time would advance to the second set of 3 stages. These final 3 stages would be run in a staggered format, similar to the last stage of the first DWS' Rally Grand Final. This would capitalize on the popularity of the staggered format, whilst not impacting the runtime of the event too much.

Additionally, if this suggestion would be implemented or preferred over the following suggestion I'd advise to switch back to the Qualifying format of the first DWS. Holding a Quarter-Final after and inbetween ever round of 3 Qualifiers, which allows participants from the first Quarter-Final to qualify once again, may result in the best Semi-Finals, but sows a feeling of unfairness and confusion in the overall community. Furthermore, I feel as if the first Qualifying format wasn't broken that much, and the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." However I would suggest one change, making the qualifier events be across more than one single stage or race. This would, once again, improve the focus on consistency over single-race pace.

A new format

The second solution would be to throw out the tournament format and switch to a championship format, which would see all drivers that would have qualified for the Quarter-Finals participate in a series of championship events. Each of these events would award points based on the standings of the drivers. The Rallycross events could follow the official FIA WRX format, further enhancing the connection to real-life motorsport. Similarly the Rally events could mimic a real rally, with multiple stages on the same location with the same car, which would also see the connection to real-life Rally improve in comparison to the existing format. At the end of the championship the top 2 drivers of each platform would be invited to the Grand Finals, which would see a similar format as the previously proposed format. However unlike the previous solution, this would allow for an even further expanded prize pool in the future, even for the drivers that did not qualify for the Grand Finals.

Driver Retention

Moving on to a bit more generic suggestion for the overall esports series. It would be interesting to see the top 50% of drivers retain their spot instead of being forced to qualify again for the next season. This would give the participants more motivation to keep giving it their all throughout the events/races, despite being ruled out for a potential Semi-/Grand Final spot. Additionally this would increase the possibilities for the Qualifying format, since there'd only be half as many spots to fill. This could mean that instead of qualifying stages, you could hold whole qualifying rallies instead, which would further increase the focus on consistent pace over single-race pace.

Conclusion

These were my humble suggestions to improve the existing esports format, I would greatly appreciate it if I could get your feedback on my feedback, so that we may collectively work towards an esports format for all community members, including esports drivers, spectators, and long-time community members. It's time we strive to make this series about and for the community behind DiRT Rally 2.0 🙂

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Posted (edited)

I just think the rally competition should be following a lifelike rally championship format similar to Solberg World Cup that we had a few months ago.  Where nobody is excluded from participating, but you can cover those who rise to the top naturally on live Airings towards the end of the competition.   This way you'd have thousands of people driving, not getting fully cut until the end, and having to be consistent.

Edited by bn880
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16 hours ago, SereneLogic said:

Introduction

Having watched the first Quarter-Finals, and having read the Sporting Regulations, I'd like to give my feedback on the overall esports format used in the first and second season of the DiRT World Series (DWS). Starting with the first DWS, this season was focused too much on cutthroat action and methodically practiced single-race pace. Instead it should have aimed to provide fairer action and require consistent pace. Similarly, the second DWS is seemingly focusing on the same cutthroat action and single-race pace, rather than the aforementioned fairer action and consistent pace. That said, the second season has improved on some of these areas, particularly where the Rally discipline is concerned. There are more races in both the Quarter- and Semi-Finals than before, and they account for a cumulative pace, which promotes consistency over pace. I wish I could say the same for Rallycross, but the current format still mostly neglects the results of any race that isn't the final race. There are two ways to achieve a fairer competition that focuses on consistency and really aims to be what both Rally and Rallycross should be about. 

Changes to the tournament format

The first solution would be to slightly transform the existing format to focus on the aforementioned key aspects. For the RX Quarter- and Semi-Finals you could make every single race take place at a different RX track, and have it count towards the final results by rewarding drivers points (8-6-4-3-1) based on their finishing position. Doing this for a Quarter-Final with just 3 races would see the finals focusing more on consistent results, rather than focusing on one single race. The starting grids for the first race could either be seeded based on an off-stream qualifying race, or the order of qualifying for the Quarter-/Semi-Finals. Potentially you'd be able to use the exact same cars and locations you used for the Qualifiers, as you did for the second DWS' Rally Quarter-Finals. This same process could be repeated for the RX Grand Final, except there would be more races, further enhancing the need for consistent results. This would also limit the impact of unlucky incidents, bugs or other inconveniences.

Following the success of the staggered stage format in the first DWS' Rally Grand Final, I think you'd need to capitalize on that for the second DWS' Rally Grand Final. This could potentially be done by dividing the Rally Grand Final into 2 sets of 3 stages, where each stage would be at a different location. Each stage would either award points based on the results, or count towards a cumulative time. At the end of the first 3 stages, the top 3 drivers with either the most points or the fastest cumulative time would advance to the second set of 3 stages. These final 3 stages would be run in a staggered format, similar to the last stage of the first DWS' Rally Grand Final. This would capitalize on the popularity of the staggered format, whilst not impacting the runtime of the event too much.

Additionally, if this suggestion would be implemented or preferred over the following suggestion I'd advise to switch back to the Qualifying format of the first DWS. Holding a Quarter-Final after and inbetween ever round of 3 Qualifiers, which allows participants from the first Quarter-Final to qualify once again, may result in the best Semi-Finals, but sows a feeling of unfairness and confusion in the overall community. Furthermore, I feel as if the first Qualifying format wasn't broken that much, and the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." However I would suggest one change, making the qualifier events be across more than one single stage or race. This would, once again, improve the focus on consistency over single-race pace.

A new format

The second solution would be to throw out the tournament format and switch to a championship format, which would see all drivers that would have qualified for the Quarter-Finals participate in a series of championship events. Each of these events would award points based on the standings of the drivers. The Rallycross events could follow the official FIA WRX format, further enhancing the connection to real-life motorsport. Similarly the Rally events could mimic a real rally, with multiple stages on the same location with the same car, which would also see the connection to real-life Rally improve in comparison to the existing format. At the end of the championship the top 2 drivers of each platform would be invited to the Grand Finals, which would see a similar format as the previously proposed format. However unlike the previous solution, this would allow for an even further expanded prize pool in the future, even for the drivers that did not qualify for the Grand Finals.

Driver Retention

Moving on to a bit more generic suggestion for the overall esports series. It would be interesting to see the top 50% of drivers retain their spot instead of being forced to qualify again for the next season. This would give the participants more motivation to keep giving it their all throughout the events/races, despite being ruled out for a potential Semi-/Grand Final spot. Additionally this would increase the possibilities for the Qualifying format, since there'd only be half as many spots to fill. This could mean that instead of qualifying stages, you could hold whole qualifying rallies instead, which would further increase the focus on consistent pace over single-race pace.

Conclusion

These were my humble suggestions to improve the existing esports format, I would greatly appreciate it if I could get your feedback on my feedback, so that we may collectively work towards an esports format for all community members, including esports drivers, spectators, and long-time community members. It's time we strive to make this series about and for the community behind DiRT Rally 2.0 🙂

I honestly think this is the best thing going forward. A combination of what other esports' series are already doing to great success. Myself personally,  I was disheartened at this year's DWS. It put even more of a focus on outright pace rather than consistency. This is why I agree with the idea of a championship. The best drivers are also the most consistent drivers, not necessarily the fast ones. Reward them rather than rewarding pure TT sweat. Had a championship been the format this year, I would have taken part. 

All I ask is one thing. For the love of god, please listen to us. This attitude of "Oh you'll take what we give you" doesn't work in this day and age. We are passionate about the esports scene and want to see it succeed. Having genuine feedback getting ignored only further alienates us. We just want a fair esports series that rewards consistency and, as an added bonus, gives a link into real life racing. Perhaps you can even consult with various drivers/organisers about the format and work with your community? Or is that too much to ask from Msport Games?

We want this to succeed. Work with us.

-Jack

-Soup

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4 hours ago, bn880 said:

I just think the rally competition should be following a lifelike rally championship format similar to Solberg World Cup that we had a few months ago.  Where nobody is excluded from participating, but you can cover those who rise to the top naturally on live Airings towards the end of the competition.   This way you'd have thousands of people driving, not getting fully cut until the end, and having to be consistent.

I do agree that a full championship would be preferably to get as close to reality as possible. However I am afraid that this would cost too many resources than the current esports scene on DiRT Rally 2.0 is worth. That's where my ideas come in, which pitch formats to get it inching towards reality whilst still being affordable in the resource department. With that we can then grow our esports scene, which the aforementioned formats do support and promote, to the point where such a full-blown championship series would be possible.

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19 minutes ago, SereneLogic said:

I do agree that a full championship would be preferably to get as close to reality as possible. However I am afraid that this would cost too many resources than the current esports scene on DiRT Rally 2.0 is worth. That's where my ideas come in, which pitch formats to get it inching towards reality whilst still being affordable in the resource department. With that we can then grow our esports scene, which the aforementioned formats do support and promote, to the point where such a full-blown championship series would be possible.

Disagree, what I am saying is run it like a rally or number of rallies.  Stop knocking people out.  I dont see how this is massively expensive.

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1 hour ago, bn880 said:

Disagree, what I am saying is run it like a rally or number of rallies.  Stop knocking people out.  I dont see how this is massively expensive.

My bad, I misunderstood then. I thought you were on about a large scale year-long series, which would cost resources just for holding them. Your idea matches my championship format in a lot of ways. I presume you are referring to a club-based system where thousands are able to participate. This would work, but it would not be profitable for Codemasters in a number of ways, marketability being one of them. You can't livestream these events as well as you could with a live event with a set number of drivers.

Additionally it would require some back-end work to get it going, since the current club leaderboards are pretty bad for big scoring tables, considering it relies on the total participants in a club, which can vary between round. It would need a custom/set scoring mechanism, which as said, would require more work, which means more time, which is a resource.

Furthermore, at some point there needs to be a knockout, since even Rally isn't completely equal on every platform. There are minute changes in setup possibilities and handling models that albeit have little effect, but will bring the validity of the standings in doubt if they were to run something like that. If they are to go with a live event system, with a set number of people, a knockout to decide the live final participants would be necessary.

Last but not least, this game isn't just Rally, it's also Rallycross, so there needs to be some form of cohesion between the two championships. So if one were to be held on such a massive scale, when the other simply can't be, there would be an unequal representation of both disciplines, which would not sit well with some title sponsors.

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It's not really true that you can't livestream those events.  You can just pick an event or stages that you live stream for the finals.  It can all be done, just a little bit of planning.

I wouldn't over think the marketing/finances of this personally as you're speculating a lot an worrying about things that is frankly their concern.  Rally is supposed to be rally not F1 one shot qualifyings.

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On 10/2/2020 at 4:26 PM, TheCroc84 said:

just to clarify for the unlock do you have to just do one stage of a rally or that rally's whole event?

Just one Qualifier, yes 🙂 

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@SereneLogic @bn880 @Soupcooler

 

Good discussion topic, keep the ideas and feedback coming.

 

Regarding any potential future activities, suggest your "in an ideal world" format. Leave the logistics and feasibility to the dev team and organisers 🙂 

 

Just out of curiosity, what does WRC do for their competitions, both Qualifying and Finals?

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

@SereneLogic @bn880 @Soupcooler

 

Good discussion topic, keep the ideas and feedback coming.

 

Regarding any potential future activities, suggest your "in an ideal world" format. Leave the logistics and feasibility to the dev team and organisers 🙂 

 

Just out of curiosity, what does WRC do for their competitions, both Qualifying and Finals?

WRC holds a worldwide championship season to serve as a qualifier, with the top 4 advancing to a live finals. The above suggestions were made based on some constraints I assumed would be encountered. An ideal format would more or less be the following:

Qualifiers

Ideally, the qualifiers are meant to separate the fast from the not so fast drivers, the current format fails in this regards due to the aforementioned methodically practiced single-race pace. As stated, I'd much rather see a similar format to the first DWS of DR2 be used in the future of DiRT Esports, with one exception being the specific qualifiers themselves. I'd have each qualifier be more akin to a weekly and/or monthly, thus really hammering on the necessity of consistent pace. This could potentially be tied to real rallies, but I'd rather see at least 3 qualifiers where at least Snow, Tarmac and Gravel are covered. These qualifiers would also be able to implement weather-, time-, and degradation changes across the event, and would serve the additional bonus of damage mitigation playing a role in them. This would greatly improve the link to the real-life counterpart.

For RX you end up in a rather tricky spot, as RX by default is a live event, so I don't see a much better way to execute the Qualifiers than how they were run in the first DWS on DR2. Potentially more focus could be put on varying weather types, and dividing the qualifiers based on car class would see a bit more order to the format. However RX itself benefits greatly from the next part of the format.

Championship Season

Instead of the aforementioned tournament format, I'd rather see a championship format being used, akin to real-life Rally and Rallycross. This would see all participants who made it through the qualifiers (+- 15) compete against each other in a series of live events. The RX event would be akin to the WRX Esports series format for real drivers. Whereas the Rally event would feature 3 lobbies of 5 people simulating a rally, with each lobby taking it one stage at a time to keep progression between lobbies equal. This would remove the damage aspect from the rallies, but the cumulative timings and hardcore damage would punish drivers regardless of damage carrying over. After each round/rally, the drivers would be awarded points based on their result, and at the end of the season the top 2 per platform with the highest points would advance to the Grand Final.

That said, if there would ever be a DiRT title that would support both esports and cross-platform play, then you can get rid of the platform limitations and straight up hold a 15 person cross-platform live event championship, without the need to hold one for each specific platform. This would instead see the top 6 of this championship move on to the live final.

Furthermore, as stated it'd be amazing if the top 50% of this championship would retain their spot in this championship, further enhancing the viability of DiRT Esports for them, and allowing for household names to develop within the sport, without having to forsake every single hour of each day into qualifying again once a new series is announced.

P.S. It would however be amazing if lobbies could potentially support a size of 15/16 participants and 4 spectators. Allowing any organisation of such events to be A LOT easier. It'd also mean live RX events, which mostly cling around 16 participants would be a lot easier to run, stream and execute for both professional, amateur and casual organisers. 

Grand Final

For the Grand Final format, please see my above message, it pretty much details my ideal format for a live final. 🙂

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Bonjour

si je change de pseudo pendant les qualifications, est ce que je perds les temps que j'ai déjà réalisé dans la semaine 1 de la manche 2 ?

 

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23 minutes ago, manuperso said:

Bonjour

si je change de pseudo pendant les qualifications, est ce que je perds les temps que j'ai déjà réalisé dans la semaine 1 de la manche 2 ?

 

 

Non, il devrait simplement être lié à votre compte plutôt qu'au surnom

 

p.s french isn't my strongest language so hopefully that makes sense.  (and somehow you understand english more than i understand french)

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On 8/18/2020 at 7:49 PM, UnderclassGDfan said:

The X-Box-Userbase is probably MUCH smaller than on the other two platforms.
So it is much easier for an top leaderboard-driver to shine.
I'm on X-Box and still won't qualify for one of the spots probably, not good enough.
Don't wanna go on a stage anyway.

I'm on both X-Box and PC, but started the series on my PC, so I can't take advantage of an edge I wouldn't have had anyway haha.

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What would be cool is if you could have Continental champions from 6 (assuming there are no Antarctic competitors) continents. The top of those would then go to the World Series Rally, with stages. :)

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