Who is at fault? Episode 2

[KNT2011 214]

I quite enjoyed the last one so lets have another, first corner Bahrain action

I'm in the Alpha, I'm feeling like Ocon should have backed off here, no?

[TurkeySloth2107 77]

Ocon, definetly. He's cutting the corner to stay inside. Also, if the game were just, he'd get leaving the track and unsafe driving.

[KNT2011 214]

13 minutes ago, TurkeySloth2107 said:

Ocon, definetly. He's cutting the corner to stay inside. Also, if the game were just, he'd get leaving the track and unsafe driving.

Well, my man damaged his front wing, spun into the grass, and rejoined last, so I'm not complaining too hard 

[Getts0388 66]

Not enough info to make an accurate call. What happened in the right handed corner before that aloud Ocon to get his nose under you going into to the left corner?? Did you give him an opportunity to get a run on you?  Should you have given him at least a car width lane if he fairly got to the inside of you entering the left??? I would rather they push hard than back out out of corners when side by side, personally. Just one mans take on this with minimal info. 

[marioho 686]

I think it's your fault, mate. Ocon has not only his front wing besides your car but his front axle is entirely alongside your rear axle on the first picture. When two cars are alongside each other you must give a car width worth of space between you and the track limit. The so called racing room.

On picture two Ocon had to leave the track to avoid colliding with you. From there on it's only the aftermath of you squeezing him too much between pics 1 and 2.

[grizzles777 2]

Your at fault he had nowhere to go

[TurkeySloth2107 77]

5 minutes ago, marioho said:

I think it's your fault, mate. Ocon has not only his front wing besides your car but his front axle is entirely alongside your rear axle on the first picture. When two cars are alongside each other you must give a car width worth of space between you and the track limit. The so called racing room.

On picture two Ocon had to leave the track to avoid colliding with you. From there on it's only the aftermath of you squeezing him too much between pics 1 and 2.

I still say it’s Ocon’s at fault here because the only part of his car alongside OP’s is the front wing, meaning he should’ve backed out.

[marioho 686]

@TurkeySloth2107 haha unfortunately you chose to pick maybe the only part of my statement that is objectively correct.

A front wing is more than enough for the cars to be officially considered "alongside each other". This used to come in verbis in the FIA sporting regulations:

Quote

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

It has probably moved from one of the Appendixes since then, but I guarantee it is still what is used by the stewards when reviewing racing incidents.

It is even replicated in the F1 eSports rules:

Quote

iv. Racing Room is considered to be roughly one-car’s width measured from outside the white lines defining the track edges. Once a trailing car has its front wheel next to the Driver of the leading vehicle, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there, and that the leading Driver must leave the trailing Driver sufficient Racing Room.

In this case Ocon has his front wing + front wheel alongside OP's car. 

Edited August 20 by marioho

[TurkeySloth2107 77]

6 minutes ago, marioho said:

@TurkeySloth2107 haha unfortunately you chose to pick maybe the only part of my statement that is objectively correct.

A front wing is more than enough for the cars to be officially considered "alongside each other". This used to come in verbis in the FIA sporting regulations:

It has probably moved from one of the Appendixes since then, but I guarantee it is still what is used by the stewards when reviewing racing incidents.

It is even replicated in the F1 eSports rules:

In this case Ocon has his front wing + front wheel alongside OP's car. 

I know you don’t mean to sound condescending here, but the laugh makes it seem so. All you had to do was quote the rules.

[marioho 686]

The laugh was inserted for the the double purpose of avoiding sounding condescending and highlighting the fact that the point you chose to contend with is one of the rare ones that used to come expressly written in the rules, as many aspects of racing etiquette seem to come from more of a gentleman agreement than anything else.

Glad you know I was not trying to come off as condescending. Now you know I positively tried to avoid that. There's only so much one can do to not come off as a douche when pointing at an error.

Here a random emoji to steam off the heat and help us walk over this incident

🤸‍♂️

[Rango 171]

I understand the wing/rear wheel thing, especially if it's in the rules, but I'm personally likely to have not known he was there and would probably have done the same thing.. I struggle enough to keep looking forward and at my mfd and keep an eye on my distance to the cars in front, let alone have a quick look back to see where Ocon would've been too. But going by my many spin during last night's racing, I'm not that good a driver haha! 

[Ialyrn 264]

Ocon should have pulled out, but simulary, the OP should have left room on the inside. Given the sheer amount of cars around that section, it would be a resonable assumption that someone could be pulling alongside into the turning zone. That corner allows for a fairly decent exit when taken a little wider for the purpose of sharing the track, so chances are the battle could be finished on the straight with a littler overtake used to pull away before the next braking zone.

[KNT2011 214]

Interesting thoughts guys, I think upon reflections, it is likely right I should have left space on the inside. Though to me, his line was always going to take him off track going inside like that. 

It's a shame then that the game has no way to really punish any move like that and I received a 'warning' which had no effect whatsoever on me yet Ocon's race was basically done. 

Of course it would be hard if not impossible to achieve something like that so useless to think about it too much. 

[Ultra3142 384]

1 hour ago, Rango said:

I struggle enough to keep looking forward and at my mfd and keep an eye on my distance to the cars in front, let alone have a quick look back to see where Ocon would've been too.

Do you have the proximity arrows on?

[Rango 171]

I do, but at what point do they appear? When they've got their nose by my rear wheel or just when they're close to me? How do I know that if I turn in, there'll be contact? 

[KNT2011 214]

1 minute ago, Rango said:

I do, but at what point do they appear? When they've got their nose by my rear wheel or just when they're close to me? How do I know that if I turn in, there'll be contact? 

The arrows are red when they're alongside you (unless that's PC2 and I've got confused.)

It's also only a faded single arrows if the car is near to you and a double bright white arrows if the car is right on your tail

[Rango 171]

So the more colour / solid they are, the more likely they'd contact? Thanks will keep that in mind 👍🏻

[johnboy83 88]

23 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

The arrows are red when they're alongside you (unless that's PC2 and I've got confused.)

It's also only a faded single arrows if the car is near to you and a double bright white arrows if the car is right on your tail

No it is red on F1 too. Ah least defo on F1 2019, ive turned them off for this though year as we finally have the virtual rear mirror 🙂

[KNT2011 214]

2 minutes ago, johnboy83 said:

No it is red on F1 too. Ah least defo on F1 2019, ive turned them off for this though year as we finally have the virtual rear mirror 🙂

I'm about to play so I will turn in on everything until it turns red and we will see!

[Ultra3142 384]

44 minutes ago, Rango said:

I do, but at what point do they appear? When they've got their nose by my rear wheel or just when they're close to me? How do I know that if I turn in, there'll be contact? 

I've not yet taken the time to see exactly what each indicator means. As well as the mirror options mentioned, you could also go into photo mode at the point you see each type and then have a details look at exactly what's going on. 

[marioho 686]

I'm of the opinion Codemasters should install horns on the cars. That or give us all triple monitor rigs for that peripheral awareness.

[johnboy83 88]

40 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

I'm about to play so I will turn in on everything until it turns red and we will see!

Haha I like your style 🙂

[Rango 171]

Ideally want to try and avoid this (though I'm absolutely not at fault here! 😂) I'm the Renault 

Edited August 20 by Rango

[KNT2011 214]

5 minutes ago, Rango said:

Ideally want to try and avoid this (though I'm absolutely not at fault here! 😂) I'm the Renault 

 

Nice and calm into turn 1 there

[KNT2011 214]

Now, I know what you may be thinking

We're back at it again!

But I swear, I didn't even realise it was Ocon. I'd lost my concentration and was listening to Jeff babble on about something, completely missed the braking zone into Shanghai Turn 11 and the only way out was to swing it inside. I thought I had got away with it too!

But no. And Ocon pitted after this lap, and he'd only just pitted before I came along, putting him last then and last at the end. 

This man is probably aching to punch me at some point