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Lack of AI mistakes and crashes


Enlate

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Plenty of AI mistakes and crashes, be it alone or against another AI or against me.

I'm obviously intrigued about the debate as sometimes it seems people are playing wholly different games, but I don't have it on me to care enough to record gameplay specifically for that. My first race ever on F1 2020 had 2 or 3 mistakes recorded on the highlights:

 I play on AI 100.

There are plenty of results on youtube too.

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I feel people may expect too much from these mistakes. Big crashes might happen but will be rare. In my experience it's mostly AI's running into the back of you or eachother and small mistakes like slightly losing the back of the car out of a corner, lock ups or something small like that.

Although I have seen 2 people DNF during practice sessions in a single season of myteam so I guess that might count. Not sure what happened.

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16 minutes ago, GnrDreagon said:

Not sure what happened.

This is another bite at it. I see very often a few DNFs on the Race Director screen at the end of a race even though I was nowhere near those cars when the incidents happened to witness them. Very often too we have Jeff coming in through the radio reporting that this or that driver is having some kind of mechanical problem or is slowing down.

People need to temper their expectations. We're not a viewer watching a competently edited broadcast of a GP. We're (hopefully, body and mind) in one of those cars. It is unrealistic to assume we'll have mistakes flourishing before our eyes every single race.

Haha were we to ask Hamilton he'd probably vouch for the 2020 season being one completely devoid of mistakes and mishappens barring the occasional tyre going out. What the heck does he get to see cruising 30+ seconds ahead of the field?!   

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3 hours ago, marioho said:

This is another bite at it. I see very often a few DNFs on the Race Director screen at the end of a race even though I was nowhere near those cars when the incidents happened to witness them. Very often too we have Jeff coming in through the radio reporting that this or that driver is having some kind of mechanical problem or is slowing down.

People need to temper their expectations. We're not a viewer watching a competently edited broadcast of a GP. We're (hopefully, body and mind) in one of those cars. It is unrealistic to assume we'll have mistakes flourishing before our eyes every single race.

Haha were we to ask Hamilton he'd probably vouch for the 2020 season being one completely devoid of mistakes and mishappens barring the occasional tyre going out. What the heck does he get to see cruising 30+ seconds ahead of the field?!   

I'm pretty sure one of them actually DNF'd in the pit lane. Maybe I've had some major mistakes happen in my races that caused a DNF but usually I'm not really near those cars to actually know what happened. Although most likely they had some kind of component failure.

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6 hours ago, GnrDreagon said:

I feel people may expect too much from these mistakes.

For me this is the core of this issue. 

The game does a great job of replicating a real F1 race in video game form, on balance possibly it's the best we've had in this regard, however it isn't a slippin', slidin', cars coming off and smashing the wall, simulation extravaganza and it never really has been or claimed to be.  

At it's best, the AI competence and design provides an intense experience as you try to nail every corner to make up that tenth and get back on their tail to be in perfect position for another overtake attempt at that one spot on the circuit it's possible (Hi Hungary). 

This is very true to life and while real F1 racing will give us more incidents and mistakes, it's not as many as people seem to think or demand of this game. 

Would I like to see more, of course, and I hope they work on that, but it's a really enjoyable model as is and again, hasn't really claimed to provide more than it does. 

No one has been misled. 

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10 hours ago, RS Phil said:

The number of mistakes and crashes is maybe linked to AI level.

Seems strange, i playing on 85 difficulty but they do nothing. I can't increase this level, because i playing on dualshock and it will be hard to me.

I don't deserve AI fighting and mistakes on 85 level? 😄 So, SC option in menu is useless in this case :)

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5 minutes ago, Enlate said:

Seems strange, i playing on 85 difficulty but they do nothing.

Highly doubt this is true, but your expectations are unrealistic

5 minutes ago, Enlate said:

I don't deserve AI fighting and mistakes on 85 level? 😄 

Being a bit silly now. 

You stated elsewhere you have bought several iterations of the last version and this one and have been unhappy with the AI in every one, with this info it's certainly not the games fault. 

Perhaps Wreckfest would be better for you. 

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8 minutes ago, Enlate said:

Seems strange, i playing on 85 difficulty but they do nothing. I can't increase this level, because i playing on dualshock and it will be hard to me.

I don't deserve AI fighting and mistakes on 85 level? 😄 So, SC option in menu is useless in this case 🙂

I play at 75% AI and so far 3 crashes in 34 races (3 SC). Crashes are not so frequent you know but generally it’s very difficult to overtake, especially on some circuits. Even with a more powerful engine, you have to prepare your overtake and if their are 2 or 3 cars in front of you, this is even more complicated because they all use DRS and OT button to defend their position.

I would say that AI is very conservative with other AI and sometimes they need to take risks, which they don’t do very often.

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11 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

Highly doubt this is true, but your expectations are unrealistic

I will try to provide video to you, later.

11 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

Being a bit silly now. 

You stated elsewhere you have bought several iterations of the last version and this one and have been unhappy with the AI in every one, with this info it's certainly not the games fault. 

Easy man. I can discuss about issue, if u dislike it, u can stop reading my messages. It's not my problem.

So i have 2 copies of 2019 for different platforms, and 1 of 2020 for PS4.

11 minutes ago, KNT2011 said:

Perhaps Wreckfest would be better for you. 

Ha-ha so funny. Just don't answer me please. If like a game with broken SC system - is't your choice.

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Albon the AI has crashed into the safety car twice in my fist My Team season alone. Once in Austria then again in Mexico. Totally destroyed his car. 

I've also seen AI cars get oversteer/lack of grip out of corners.

I think we need more AI mistakes/crashes in practice and qualy.

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The one kind of crash they generally seem to have is the one with DRS open and they just spin out. It's stupid, looks pathetic, it's there more often than it should be. They do overshoot a corner sometimes and then slowly creep back on track, and they bump into you pretty often, turn 10 at Bahrain being one place for it. There are the times when they lose the car a little which looks good.

With AI retirements, I do 50% races and I pretty much always only see Terminal Failure as the reason.

They do still look very robotic when you ride onboard with them in practice and qualifying which is a big shame.

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On 8/23/2020 at 10:30 AM, KNT2011 said:

Highly doubt this is true, but your expectations are unrealistic

Being a bit silly now. 

You stated elsewhere you have bought several iterations of the last version and this one and have been unhappy with the AI in every one, with this info it's certainly not the games fault. 

Perhaps Wreckfest would be better for you. 

Stop saying that. I hate when people says things like “iT s NOt a DeStrUCTION DerbY GAme” or “GO plAY bEaMNG”.

Why it is so hard to understand, it is a racing game, crashes and damages are part of it and it is a fact, I love racing games and F1 and I want this aspect in the game not because I like chaos and destruction, because without crashes the experience is not so deep and real. Another fact is that this important things are missing in F12020. Try to imagine FIFA but players don’t fall to the ground lol. The right amount of random crashes creates hype and tension / emotions, things that codies should consider to add in this dull game. 

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28 minutes ago, MrHawk said:

Stop saying that. I hate when people says things like “iT s NOt a DeStrUCTION DerbY GAme” or “GO plAY bEaMNG”.

Why it is so hard to understand, it is a racing game, crashes and damages are part of it and it is a fact, I love racing games and F1 and I want this aspect in the game not because I like chaos and destruction, because without crashes the experience is not so deep and real. Another fact is that this important things are missing in F12020. Try to imagine FIFA but players don’t fall to the ground lol. The right amount of random crashes creates hype and tension / emotions, things that codies should consider to add in this dull game. 

How many crashes and damages happened before Stroll eyes this year? Or Albon? Norris? Ricciardo?

I can't talk for @KNT2011 but I commented on this matter too here. People need to keep their expectations in check because on Sunday they see every single incident sitting on their couch and watching the race broadcast. In the game you're inside a single car, racing the whole event. And yet when you open the Race Director screen at the end of the race there are a handful of collisions, terminal damages and DNFs pretty often.

 

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1 hour ago, marioho said:

How many crashes and damages happened before Stroll eyes this year? Or Albon? Norris? Ricciardo?

I can't talk for @KNT2011 but I commented on this matter too here. People need to keep their expectations in check because on Sunday they see every single incident sitting on their couch and watching the race broadcast. In the game you're inside a single car, racing the whole event. And yet when you open the Race Director screen at the end of the race there are a handful of collisions, terminal damages and DNFs pretty often.

 

It seems you don’t like dramas in games. Go check my new topic and you’ll understand what I mean 😉 

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I read it. Found it interesting:

Quote

Stop saying that. I hate when people says things like “iT s NOt a DeStrUCTION DerbY GAme” or “GO plAY bEaMNG”

Quote

 I DON’T WANT A SIM

You did not address my point. If you want to broaden the scope of the discussion, it would make things more inviting for us if you could check the previous points before going forth with new ones. 

Edit:

Quote

It seems you don’t like dramas in games

Indeed, I don't feel like playing Need for Speed.

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12 hours ago, marioho said:

I read it. Found it interesting:

You did not address my point. If you want to broaden the scope of the discussion, it would make things more inviting for us if you could check the previous points before going forth with new ones. 

Edit:

Indeed, I don't feel like playing Need for Speed.

Man this game IS GOING TO BE EXACTLY LIKE NEED FOR SPEED. That’s what I was trying to say. Contacts and physics are already very arcadeish, just like need for speed 😂

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On 8/24/2020 at 7:45 AM, USPBauer24 said:

I think we need more AI mistakes/crashes in practice and qualy.

This is comment of the year.

Working through My Team I spend a lot of time in practice and now you mention it I'm not sure you ever see crashes or mistakes.

Yellow flags in quali would definitely mix things up, should be in there.

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2 100% races with plenty of mistakes recently. Race 1 (Italy) Bottas crashes just before the 3rd long straight and safety car comes out. I have no idea how he crashed and only caught the post crash moment on Instant Replay.

Race 2 (Japan) Albon has a minor spin and crash right after Turn 9. He continued to race normally but his minor crash caused a safety car to come out for 2 laps despite the track not having any debris. Also In some cases when I put the AI under pressure they get a bit too early on the gas after a turn and oversteer.

But I agree that the AI should make mistakes in FP and Quali as well.

I play on 105 difficulty btw.

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  • 1 month later...

I think the AI aren't making enough mistakes, all I see if losing slightly on corner exits and that's it, heck I get barely get Safety Car or VSC in My Team Career since the A.I had grown worse within each update and they never caused crashes on their own.

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I was one of those people who complained that AI were on rails and not making mistakes but maybe this is linked to AI difficulty level. When I played at 90-95 I could see some slight lockups or traction losses, but yesterday I was playing at AI level 100 a 50% Grand Prix in Mexico and Hamilton made a quite major mistake by spinning completely, definitely not a scripted accident such as mechanical DNFs that can occur within the bots. This was really pleasant, I wish it could happen more and more thus making room for recovering from your mistakes and playing without flashbacks.

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I play on 101 difficulty and I only see drivers crashing if they're in the DRS zone and wiggle like in the video above with Sainz crashing out on Baku. The only other time I've seen a big crash from an AI car is on Spa at Eau Rouge in the wet, when both Mercedes went side by side up the hill and both ended up in the wall. Aside from that, I more or less have to cause the accidents to happen, if I want them to happen(I don't unless it's Kmag, screw him).

In terms of mistakes, I've seen a lot from the AI, but nothing massively significant. A slight wiggle when they're coming out of a corner on old tyres is the most common for me.

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Since release, I've only seen a few wiggles. That's it.

We need more mistakes with consequences.

For example, with F1 2012 as I was going around La Source hairpin at Spa, a driver a few places back kept on going into the run off area, locked up just missing the wall and had to turn around and rejoin. That was great.

Outbraking and locking up into a wall or run off area. Clipping the edge of the track onto the grass and losing control into a spin. Duelling with another car and clipping tyres, sending one or the other flying. Just having a random hit of oversteer into a long corner and spinning off during practice or qualifying. The cars need to be looser and have less restrictions on "personal space".

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11 hours ago, hsf said:

I play on 101 difficulty and I only see drivers crashing if they're in the DRS zone and wiggle like in the video above with Sainz crashing out on Baku. The only other time I've seen a big crash from an AI car is on Spa at Eau Rouge in the wet, when both Mercedes went side by side up the hill and both ended up in the wall. Aside from that, I more or less have to cause the accidents to happen, if I want them to happen(I don't unless it's Kmag, screw him).

In terms of mistakes, I've seen a lot from the AI, but nothing massively significant. A slight wiggle when they're coming out of a corner on old tyres is the most common for me.

I had the AI difficulty on 101 too and I'm on my 3rd Season of My Team yet only tiny looses and little lockups I see the AI do but I haven't seen them do any divebomb overtakes which can go well or wrong depend on the corner, and going off topic I think the Safety Car in Career will only come out if there's a crash on the track and not the AI parks on the side of the track when they have car trouble to DNF, it makes my Career as stale as last year's game.

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This really does need improving. FPS shooters can get by with basic AI because multiplayer is where the main appeal is for those games. Meanwhile the online racing lobbies are a nightmare so it’s the offline races that make myself and so many others buy this game so the AI can’t be robotic in its perfection.

The Race Director sections should be filled with drama and encourage me to scout through the race replay but the list is often empty and if there is anything it’s usually a minor bump.

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I see the AI often do a lockup when I'm chasing them. Not actually sure if it affects their tyrewear or pace in later stages. But I have once noticed that Perez who was clearly faster than me locked up twice when I got out of the pits just behind him and towards the end of the stint (he pitted a lap before me) he was struggling significantly more than me. Wasn't sure whether it was down to him locking up or me just being better with my tyres. 

Either way, AI usually DNFs with "mechanical failure". Never actually see them plant their car in the wall or against another driver.
What frustrates me the most that I've been spun around by the fault of the AI multiple times now and they always only get a warning, never a penalty. 

And yes, I watched the replay so many times if it wasn't my mistake by steering in or closing the door. Perez once crashed me out in Zandvoort, didn't receive a penalty. 
Sainz spun me in Bahrain and didn't even receive a warning. 
But if I do the slightest wheelbang, boom, warning.

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4 hours ago, Malarky94 said:

I see the AI often do a lockup when I'm chasing them. Not actually sure if it affects their tyrewear or pace in later stages. But I have once noticed that Perez who was clearly faster than me locked up twice when I got out of the pits just behind him and towards the end of the stint (he pitted a lap before me) he was struggling significantly more than me. Wasn't sure whether it was down to him locking up or me just being better with my tyres. 

Either way, AI usually DNFs with "mechanical failure". Never actually see them plant their car in the wall or against another driver.
What frustrates me the most that I've been spun around by the fault of the AI multiple times now and they always only get a warning, never a penalty. 

And yes, I watched the replay so many times if it wasn't my mistake by steering in or closing the door. Perez once crashed me out in Zandvoort, didn't receive a penalty. 
Sainz spun me in Bahrain and didn't even receive a warning. 
But if I do the slightest wheelbang, boom, warning.

Also worth noting that the damage system is favourable to the AI too, especially on simulation damage. I got rear ended on on Spa and my front wing disintergrated, but the AI that smashed into my rear end only had minor wing damage... I mean that is ridiculous...

It's almost like your car has the simulation damage on but the AI has reduced damage on.

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14 hours ago, hsf said:

Also worth noting that the damage system is favourable to the AI too, especially on simulation damage. I got rear ended on on Spa and my front wing disintergrated, but the AI that smashed into my rear end only had minor wing damage... I mean that is ridiculous...

It's almost like your car has the simulation damage on but the AI has reduced damage on.

I think that’s exactly how it works unfortunately. The AI damage sensitivity doesn’t seem to change when you change this setting, only the players.

Ridiculous design decision.

Also, it’s so frustrating when you have contact with the AI no where near your front wing, and it breaks! Drives me mad. I want to play with simulation damage, but it’s just not worth it at the moment - it’s more like and unfair random damage mode

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BREAKING NEWS: Bottas just had an accident in the Dutch GP on my Driver Career save. \o/

He was going round the slow turn 12 and he managed to wheelspin-oversteer into the wall on the left as he accelerated out of the corner. It was quite comical, like someone learning how to drive the game with a wheel and pedals for the first time. The fact that he had only one hand on the wheel at the time because he was changing ERS modes or something, that added to the immersion that he couldn't control the car quite as well.

Coupled with the fact I'd just installed the latest version of the 'Extreme, Medium, Realistic Damage' Mod from StrongestFish on Racedepartment (I use 'Realistic'), this meant he lost his front wing and had to pit. If that had happened without the mod, because it happened at such a slow speed, he would never have lost his wing and wouldn't have lost so many positions.

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I think the amount of AI mistakes are quite well balanced atm.

I've seen many locking up their brakes, spinning while touching wheels, getting loose and losing momentum on corner exit, etc. I would imagine implementing the kinda major human-like mistakes described by OP are probably a little difficult and complicated to get right, as of now even the occasional engine failure of AI got me frustrated because of how scripted they felt, as well as it made me feel dirty to win in such way.

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  • Moderator

We had AI on in the joker race at COTA (Forum Championship) and I started way back as I had no idea what the racing line was before joining the session. I was making some progress and the AI up front was significantly slower than I was. I wasn't even planning to overtake him on the start-finish straight, but I went on the outside and got in front of him even before we reached turn 1. The AI then decided to brake way too late and smash into me... Wasn't fun 😁

Most of the time I see an AI making a mistake, it's me who'll be pitting at the end of the lap.

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