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I can’t hide my frustration anymore

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Posted (edited)

I get your point. I find at times the racing to be boring and predictable. Like the weather system no innovation since F1 2012 in that game where it's wet in one random sector and not the whole track to begin with via localized weather. The weather system in 2020 doesn't exist. It tells you when to change for tyres when the notification for DRS is disabled. 

It might as well tell people when it's the ideal time to pit for inters or wets. there's no other way to say it other than it's complete ********. To be honest with you I don't see the point anymore of even bothering. Since the same stuff gets carried over to the next game while removing something else as a result unless it's a bug or an issue from a previous game in need of a fix.    

Edited by Chromatic
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Posted (edited)

I agree on some points with you. For commercial reasons, CM focused on new features like My Team, gloves, suits, helmets, ... but didn’t innovate on existing things that could be easily more enjoyable (full formation lap, full pit stop like in Project Cars, lap after the final lap and go to podium, a clever Jeff to whom you can ask advices on setup, mechanical failures for players,...).

Those little things would make a true racer happy but won’t sell as many games as adding new things.

You then finished with a complete game with many unfinished (buggy in case of SC) features.

Edited by RS Phil
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I have a question in terms of physics, since I play on simulation damage... does losing a front wing endplate severly reduce aerodynamics performance and car performance? I find it odd that just a small piece of endplate can make you lose at least 0.5 seconds per lap. 
 

In terms of traction, if you are on the wheel, you can lose traction on 5th gear if you are applying a lot of steering lock. I wish we could also tell Jeff to monitor a particular driver in the race... 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MrHawk said:

I’ve been playing F1 for 8 years and I am thinking about giving up with the franchise.

One thought on this is that in general it must be phenomenally hard for any game developer to try to keep a game feeling fresh for long-term players but even more so with the F1 franchise where there are such obvious limitations on what can be done. The addition of My Team mode does though seem like a significant development that at least some long-term players seem very much to be enjoying as a new element.

My own newbie take on where CM seem to be most letting down long term players is in the online game performance.

Edited by Ultra3142
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Man, despite enjoying f12020, there was something making me not really want to play it that often, so this thread really resonated with me. I love some of those ideas, that is the direction the game needs to go in.
 

 

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I have NEVER witness a first corner accident / yellow flag / safety car ecc, and I’ve been playing A LOT. Very disappointing. I don’t want a carnage, just a minimum of unpredictability, the game now seems scripted, I know AI will never DNF in the first lap of the race.

on this, my first season on my team at silverstone, Norris at start mistimed his breaking into first corner and ran into back of vettel and Norris ended up out of race without even getting round first corner.

- Safety Car bugs, in 2020 there’s the same bug of the previous years, it is not coming out. Some virtual SF every now and then.

the above incident with Norris brought out safety car and in my first season I saw safety car way over a dozen times. Admittedly about half of them was because of me but plenty that did not have anything to do with me at all.

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3 hours ago, ChristianAnsell said:

I have NEVER witness a first corner accident / yellow flag / safety car ecc, and I’ve been playing A LOT. Very disappointing. I don’t want a carnage, just a minimum of unpredictability, the game now seems scripted, I know AI will never DNF in the first lap of the race.

on this, my first season on my team at silverstone, Norris at start mistimed his breaking into first corner and ran into back of vettel and Norris ended up out of race without even getting round first corner.

- Safety Car bugs, in 2020 there’s the same bug of the previous years, it is not coming out. Some virtual SF every now and then.

the above incident with Norris brought out safety car and in my first season I saw safety car way over a dozen times. Admittedly about half of them was because of me but plenty that did not have anything to do with me at all.

I experience 2 first corner accident with Safety cars in Australia and Bahrain in season 3 of my career.

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3 hours ago, RS Phil said:

I experience 2 first corner accident with Safety cars in Australia and Bahrain in season 3 of my career.

Never see incidents. Just opened 'Crashes' tab after race and see nothing :) 

Only my mistakes were logged. I think CM should add "agression" option for players to control AI behaviour.

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Posted (edited)

Instead of making a new game each year and adding new features and options and neglecting to fix the core fundamentals that are wrong year in year out, rather just keep the base game intact and improve this and release car/track/rule changes etc in yearly update patches, surely if you get the foundation solid and just keep adding new features onto that there wouldn't be the same issues year after year.

I just think add the new season in a patch/update rather than having a completely new game every year with the same bugs, making a new game with new my team career etc is pointless when the issues from previous years are still in the game and messing up the experience, then who cares about new features like my team if the base core game is not 100%

Dont get me wrong I love the F1 games and buy each years game without fail, but its just disappointing that CM cant get bugs ironed out from 3 years back.

Edited by hardbaked
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28 minutes ago, hardbaked said:

Dont get me wrong I love the F1 games and buy each years game without fail, but its just disappointing that CM cant get bugs ironed out from 3 years back.

And this is why they release a new game every year... because we keep buying the latest and greatest. Why have the same game for 3 years making little to no money when you can instead add a few new features to the existing base code and charge people £50-£80 for the privilege. 
It’s business. It’s about making a profit. 

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17 minutes ago, dshepsman said:

And this is why they release a new game every year... because we keep buying the latest and greatest. Why have the same game for 3 years making little to no money when you can instead add a few new features to the existing base code and charge people £50-£80 for the privilege. 
It’s business. It’s about making a profit. 

This is true, but still it would make sense to have a solid base and then charge for the updates, it snot like they relying only on F1 to make money, they have many games

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8 hours ago, ChristianAnsell said:

I have NEVER witness a first corner accident / yellow flag / safety car ecc, and I’ve been playing A LOT. Very disappointing. I don’t want a carnage, just a minimum of unpredictability, the game now seems scripted, I know AI will never DNF in the first lap of the race.

on this, my first season on my team at silverstone, Norris at start mistimed his breaking into first corner and ran into back of vettel and Norris ended up out of race without even getting round first corner.

- Safety Car bugs, in 2020 there’s the same bug of the previous years, it is not coming out. Some virtual SF every now and then.

the above incident with Norris brought out safety car and in my first season I saw safety car way over a dozen times. Admittedly about half of them was because of me but plenty that did not have anything to do with me at all.

Surely the parts I've put in bold contradict each other?

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20 minutes ago, Ultra3142 said:

Surely the parts I've put in bold contradict each other?

I think it's a response to the OP. 

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2 minutes ago, amazingblaze said:

I think it's a response to the OP. 

Ah, yes, a quote that didn't go as planned :classic_smile:. It makes more sense now!

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Posted (edited)

I appreciate that you have at least attempted to provide reasons for why you feel this way. In the spirit of good faith, I'd just like to address your points individually out of respect to your views.

On 8/25/2020 at 1:45 AM, MrHawk said:

this game is utterly shallow, dull and lifeless.

Why? Because in general, it has no “mojo”, it’s not “dynamic” and “alive”. Randomness, unexpected things and human aspects of racing are completely missing.

I know it must be hard to put life in a game with complex mechanics like a racing one but I think it should be one of the main missions for a developer.
That’s why I’m giving up with it, it is just the same thing repeating every damn time, in every mode, in every track, zero new scenarios, zero entertainment besides the race itself.
Please think about it, F1 fans like it because of passion and the race dynamics: I DON’T WANT A SIM and I am not hatin, I just want to enjoy a good licensed game that translate well the vibes from the track to the pc / consoles.
I would like to give you some examples of things that really destroy the good racing vibes and shuts down every feeling I have for this game.

I totally get that you want to have that excitement you get in racing rather than a simple, bland racing simulation that accurately reflects how cars drive but doesn't really 'feel' like a real race - a description I'd use to describe a series like, say, Gran Turismo, which I am actually a big fan of.

But to me, Codemasters' F1 series is the best we've ever had at providing that 'real racing' sensation in an officially licensed F1 game. We have formation laps, manual starts, manual pit lane activation, a live engineer on the radio that we can literally talk to for information during a race, pre and post-race cinematics, podium celebrations and a championship celebration when we clinch the title.

We have the Safety Car that can act as a wild card during races along with AI mistakes and crashes separate from the player (although they are wildly inconsistent between players and I don't have any SCs in my MyTeam for some reason...) and we have driver transfers and retirements and performance changes that make career mode dynamic and a unique experience with every season.

Could there be improvements to these? Absolutely. I think we'd all agree that there are ways in which they could be made better.

But I would definitely disagree that F1 2020 is missing that 'new scenarios and entertainment' that you suggest. You might like more of it, that's totally understandable. But to claim it just doesn't exist is hard to difficult to see.

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- LET ME DRIVE MY CAR!! This really drives me crazy. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRIVE TILL THE END OF THE FORMATION LAP TO MY PLACE IN THE GRID, IN THE PIT AND AFTER A CRASH. Let us park the car after a failure or drive it to the pits, IT IS SO HARD?! That’s the main cause of my frustration, I really can’t stand it and I can’t believe I’m the only one who thinks this. Too hard for casual gamers? Toggle button!

I'd agree with this. I've managed to do this plenty of times in previous racing games without much trouble.

The only reason I can think is that limiting this is to help prevent less-experienced players from messing things up and getting frustrated, or to stop players cheating or deliberately trolling other players in multiplayer.

Also, it could be that it prevents any additional bugs or glitches from ruining the game for players, because it would be an additional area of programming to have to contend with.

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- REMOVE THAT ARCADEISH SLOWMO AFTER A TERMINAL DAMAGE, IT IS A JOKE

I can see how you might not like that, but as a stylistic choice, I don't really mind it. It conveys that you've had a race-ending crash and alerts you that it's a major event. I can live with that.

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- Very rigid physics in general. Cars seems VERY heavy, I mean too heavy

I totally disagree with this one. Compared directly to F1 2019, the current cars feel significantly lighter to drive.

I think people can forget that modern F1 cars are heavier than ever before. And at the start of races, they are fat with fuel too. I think F1 2020's handling is actually one of its strongest points.

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- AI behaves weird, like they are glued to the ground, if you hit them they don’t spin but if they touch you, it’s DNF for shure. Most of peoples says F1 it’s not wreckfest but AI cars are a 300 Km/h war tanks 

I don't see this at all. I think they do benefit from artificial reactions so they can respond to spins and collisions better than any human player could, but that's just one of the limitations of current AI programming. I certainly have never felt that I couldn't race with the AI without worrying that they were going to wreck me.

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- AI does not care about where you are / breaktests you sometimes

Again, I have no experience of this. My only annoyance with the AI is with how they are programmed to yield to you in practice / qualifying when you want to just coast back to the pits and you're trying to let them pass but they insist on letting you back by.

But then again, I'd rather have that than the AI refusing to let you by on your hotlap.

Quote

- I have NEVER witness a first corner accident / yellow flag / safety car ecc, and I’ve been playing A LOT. Very disappointing. I don’t want a carnage, just a minimum of unpredictability, the game now seems scripted, I know AI will never DNF in the first lap of the race

I think having lap one crashes would be a great way to make racing feel more authentic, but I think we have to be careful what we wish for. I don't quite know how you program the AI to have the potential to crash in a way that feels organic and not scripted. Also, what do you do about the player? How frustrating would it be for a lot of players if they get caught up in a turn one crash because they couldn't avoid the cars ahead?

Sure, it might be realistic, but I think there's a significant risk of it being one of those factors that players would begin to complain the loudest about.

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- Safety Car bugs, in 2020 there’s the same bug of the previous years, it is not coming out. Some virtual SF every now and then.

Yes. I have this issue. It really, really sucks. The worst thing is that when I started my MyTeam career, everything was fine. Then after I started additional careers, it just disappeared entirely and now I feel like I've screwed myself.

I'd love to see this finally get addressed.

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- Safety car line bugs, like other drivers sometimes overtake you even if you are right back of the car in front, you just ghost and the driver behind pass through you, boom, position lost

I've not experienced this myself. But that is something that we can all hope the developers are looking into.

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- Incredibile load game bug: sometimes when I resume a session loading in the middle of the race the car has no power, barely full revving in 7th gear. Very strange

I have not experienced anything like this or seen anyone else describe anything similar to this. I don't know what could be causing this. 

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- Corner cuts. Seriously?! It’s all or nothing, cutting easily most of the turns or getting penalized for touching the Kerb with a tyre. Too inconsistent

I actually think the corner cut penalties are fairer than most people find. The problem is that it's hard to be precise in this game. It's very easy to go more over the kerb than you intend to, but I think that's just a combination of factors including playing on a TV versus actually being in a car or using VR and the accuracy of controllers vs a wheel.

But the fact that the official F1 virtual grands prix had drivers taking lines they would never be allowed to take in real life shows there is a problem with some corners.

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- Damage physics inexplicably terrible, there are too many things to say about this. Just a disaster IMO. Rear and sides of the car are unbreakable AND DON’T TELL ME IT’S ABOUT FOM AND SPONSORS, I don’t want cars to be on fire/totaled, JUST A MINIMUM aesthetic damages. Another ugly thing, little contacts brake the suspensions but sometimes big crashes don’t. What amazes me most is that reviewers / users almost never mention this topic. Let’s remove players falls in FIFA at this point! Unbelievable and unacceptable

Come on, dude. The damage in F1 2020 is not 'terrible'. On Simulation, it's actually harsher than any other F1 game I've ever played, from the PlayStation games of the 90s to Geoff Crammond's series, F1 Challenge and beyond.

You can hit a barrier in Monaco, lose a front wheel and be out of the race. That's a good damage system, to me.

You don't quite have the carnage during massive, multi-car shunts, but I think the damage is one of the strengths of the series. Especially compared to literally every over official F1 game before it.

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- I have never drove an F1 car but I’m dubious about the lack of traction of these cars, I mean, without traction control I can easily spin in 5th gear in the last Mexico corner, that’s weird

I think that's actually pretty authentic. Especially as F1 2020's traction is based on feedback on 2019 from actual real life F1 drivers.

I think things are pretty good in that regard for a game like F1 2020 is trying to be.

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- Just a word: multiplayer.

Can't really explore that when you're not expanding on what exactly you mean.

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- Scripted race dynamics

Again, what do you actually mean by this?

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- boring out of the track contexts, interviews are dull, your race engineer is very repetitive.

I could do without the interviews. The race engineer is repetitive but mainly because racing is competitive. I do wish we could select an option to take out all the 'this is how F1 works' messages in the pits or during formation laps or whatever. I know what I'm doing, Jeff.

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- lack of lap time reference / deltas. Little feature but game changer IMO, would be cool to have time targets for the compound you have or target to react to undercuts etc

That would be pretty cool, but those targets in real F1 are based on massive data crunching - far more than we would ever be able to expect in a game. It's far too easy to give the player incorrect information that would end up screwing them over rather than helping them. Right now, the best way to race is to drive at about 95% in races for the most effective balance between speed and tyre wear, fuel etc. But that is also more fun than driving to a delta, so I don't mind that.

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- During races I feel alone, I don’t know what is happening in the race, I can’t develop a good strategy. Where’s the strategist?!

What do you need to know during a race? If I'm fighting for 10th, I only care about what's happening with the cars around me. It doesn't really matter to me what's happening up front, because I'm not in their race.

I think the volume of info you can see on the HUD and request from Jeff is pretty substantial as it is. It would be great if he could give you more info about cars you're racing who have just pitted or have yet to pit to work out whether you're going to be able to pass them or hold onto your position or not, but that must be very hard to program accurately. So I'm happy with how things are at the moment.

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I know it’s a long outburst and maybe no one will read it but I really had to write this down before selling the game. I just hope new gen will change codies vision of the franchise because IT HAS AN HUGE UNEXPLOITED POTENTIAL!!! 
Let’s save this game guys PLEASE!

I am really looking forward to seeing this game evolve onto the next generation. I think F1 2020 is the best F1 game we've ever had, but I think there are certain things about the current-gen engine that are holding the devs back from making things significantly better in certain areas. I really think they will benefit a lot from SSDs and greater processing horsepower and I hope they're able to make the move without sacrificing too much of the good stuff we already have.

Edited by Blent
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I fully understand what you're saying. There is something sterile about the racing, and while it never becomes a chore, it does feel a bit uninspiring. 

 

The weather system I think others have touched on, but it is utterly pointless. Everyone pits at the same time, and you can't drive around the weather. By which I mean, put on inters early. There is a very specific time to pit, that the AI without fail, nails. 

That said, I'm sure they're aware of what can be improved, and until then I am thankful for online leagues etc, for some of that human element. 

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I fully agree with everything you've said, the thing is codemasters should add in more options in the game so people can experience the game exactly how they like.

We are all different, we all like different things. At the moment we all have to play the same game, which just doesn't work for everyone.

Every year they bring improvements but to me it's just not enough, I've been playing this game for many many years but I think I'm done with this franchise if there's not a big change next year.

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4 hours ago, Jordutchy said:

We are all different, we all like different things. At the moment we all have to play the same game, which just doesn't work for everyone.

How so?

A player racing for five laps with no damage on clear weather settings is getting a vastly different experience to someone racing 100% distance races with strict penalties having to consider strategy and not colliding with other cars.

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6 minutes ago, Blent said:

How so?

A player racing for five laps with no damage on clear weather settings is getting a vastly different experience to someone racing 100% distance races with strict penalties having to consider strategy and not colliding with other cars.

I'll add the HUGE difference of the casual mode vs 0% AI to someone using no assists against 110% AI.

There are also many different gameplay modes, from solo TT through to online leagues.

The game is very flexible to suit what different players want as far as I'm concerned.

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Blent said:

How so?

A player racing for five laps with no damage on clear weather settings is getting a vastly different experience to someone racing 100% distance races with strict penalties having to consider strategy and not colliding with other cars.

Those are just a few settings in terms of the race, I meant more options to change up the myteam mode for example. After 3 seasons you can have a fully upgraded car, all facilities upgraded and have won the wdc/constructors already. What to do in the remaining 7 seasons? There will be nothing to upgrade anymore for the people who actually prefer to go into it much further but there is no point really.

There is just no depth in this game for people who like to play this long term and not enough dynamic things happening throughout to keep things fresh. This is just my opinion though, if you are still enjoying this game then I'm glad you do but I'm personally fed up with it already.

Besides that, there is so many tracks that aren't even anything like they are in real life and they haven't been changed for years. There is so many things that should be changed but just aren't, which gets me upset. Again, I hope you still enjoy the game though 🙂

Edited by Jordutchy
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1 minute ago, Jordutchy said:

There will be nothing to upgrade anymore for the people who actually prefer to go into it much further but there is no point really.

There will be when regulation changes happen.

I also wonder why people who get through seasons quickly don't run longer races, and more races per season if they don't already do them all. Many seem not to.

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1 minute ago, Jordutchy said:

Those are just a few setting in terms of the race, I meant more options to change up the myteam mode for example. After 3 seasons you can have a fully upgraded car, all facilities upgraded and have won the wdc/constructors already. What to do in the remaining 7 seasons? There will be nothing to upgrade anymore for the people who actually prefer to go into it much further but there is no point really.

There is just no depth in this game for people who like to play this long term and not enough dynamic things happening throught to keep things fresh. This is just my opinion though, if you are still enjoying this game then I'm glad you do but I'm personally fed up with it already.

I appreciate you expanding on what you mean. I can understand your perspective a lot better now.

When it comes to the long-term intrigue and reasons to keep playing, I'd actually say F1 2020 does the best job of keeping me engaged and wanting to play longer into career mode than its predecessors.

First of all, the welcome introduction of the shorter calendars allows me to actually get through a season on a reasonable timeframe as I like to race longer distance races to feel really immersed in the racing itself. Having to try and do 22 of these per season while fitting it around my work and home life and other games I want to play always made doing multiple seasons in F1 2016-19 feel like a real slog to me. Now, I'm actually able to get through multiple seasons in career mode in this game.

Also, the dynamic team performances, car development, driver transfer market and retirements and the regulation changes all go a massive way to make each new season feel different and keep that intrigue going into multiple seasons. The storylines change. The performance of your team changes and you're able to influence that. I haven't maxed out my MyTeam yet, but maybe if and when I do it'll stop being fun or challenging. But if it comes to that point, I suppose I can artificially stop upgrading my car to keep things level. Although admittedly that isn't really the point that we should have to resort to that to keep things challening if we want that.

I think MyTeam is a mode that, hopefully, will be around for the long-term in the series and been improved and refined as time goes by. It would be really interesting to see how a future MyTeam mode would look on next-gen, especially.

But in the meantime, I think F1 2020 does the best job at providing that long-term interest and immersion thatn any game in the series so far.

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Just now, Ultra3142 said:

There will be when regulation changes happen.

I also wonder why people who get through seasons quickly don't run longer races, and more races per season if they don't already do them all. Many seem not to.

Which makes it even easier, I simulated up untill the start of season 6. At the end of season 5 I had about 43k resource points, everything got hit except durablity. I was able to adapt everything with about 8k resource points to spare, at the start of season 6 all the ai teams dropped massively. Throughout the season you rack up enough r&d points to be able to adapt everything even if every department gets hit, I also had every facility upgraded and almost 200 million left and nothing I could do with it.

It doesn't matter what lenght you race on, there should always be a challenge and something to work towards in my opinion. I get that some people like it this way but many people like me don't, that's why I'm hoping codemaster will eventually add in options that will make things more fun for people that go longer into seasons.

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