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Practice session qualifying lap challenge issue.

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Hey, just wondering if this is an issue others have noticed, and if it is effected by skill level or something else I'm not seeing.

In My Team practice sessions I've noticed some tracks the qualifying lap challenge times seem really unbalanced. For example I am using AI at 70% because of my eyesight issues and fact I'm using controller and on for example Vietnam my target was a time that should be around 3rd on grid. I barely managed the upper part of the time required after a few attempts, only to look at the timing screen to see I was 2 seconds quicker than everyone in t he session. To exceed the challenge with purple rather than green I'd have had to go a full second faster.

Most tracks I don't have this issue, but there are at least two or three I do.

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Yep, I've experienced this too. Some tracks, the quali program is near impossible, then in the actual qualifying session, you will be FAR above what they estimated your position to be. At Singapore, I couldn't get within 5 tenths off the pace in the quali program, and had an estimated position of 21st. In actual qualifying, I ended up tenth. In the race I finished 9th. There is definitely something wrong with it on some tracks.

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Yeah agree, so far I remember Bahrain and Hungary being especially hard. 

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What's happening is that, in quali-sim program you're prohibited to use MAX fuel-mix yet the target times are set with that in-mind, you'll always lose a lot of time down the straight because of this.

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50 minutes ago, DRTApophis said:

What's happening is that, in quali-sim program you're prohibited to use MAX fuel-mix yet the target times are set with that in-mind, you'll always lose a lot of time down the straight because of this.

That might be the cause, but I stick with it is just bad balance. If what you say was the only cause then it would happen for all tracks, and it doesn't. It's silly if you have a target to do that isn't possible, or far harder that it should be because you are limited by engine modes. That wouldn't happen in reality as they would surely be targeting a time based on expected pole, but adjusted for mode being run and fuel weight onboard. If it did F1 drivers would be getting stick for being seconds off in practice what they then do in qualifying.

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3 minutes ago, halfblindgamer said:

If what you say was the only cause then it would happen for all tracks, and it doesn't.

Not necessarily. Tracks like Monza and Monaco would be affected to different degrees if the issue stemmed from the engine modes as the fraction of a lap you spend applying full throttle differs significantly.

Nevertheless this is still an issue worth revising on Codemasters side.   

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7 minutes ago, halfblindgamer said:

That might be the cause, but I stick with it is just bad balance. If what you say was the only cause then it would happen for all tracks, and it doesn't. It's silly if you have a target to do that isn't possible, or far harder that it should be because you are limited by engine modes. That wouldn't happen in reality as they would surely be targeting a time based on expected pole, but adjusted for mode being run and fuel weight onboard. If it did F1 drivers would be getting stick for being seconds off in practice what they then do in qualifying.

Probably a design oversight, the reason I think this is the reason is because in most cases I'm still only losing time on the straight despite I gained time at corner exits. The inconsistency on difficulty probably has something to do with player's skill on specific tracks and the general expected AI performances on those tracks.

What i did with practice program is that I set them all to just 100% difficulty, while actual qualifying is 3-6% above that (and add another 2-3% on top of this for race), I found this balanced out the difficulty quite nicely.

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7 hours ago, marioho said:

Not necessarily. Tracks like Monza and Monaco would be affected to different degrees if the issue stemmed from the engine modes as the fraction of a lap you spend applying full throttle differs significantly.

Nevertheless this is still an issue worth revising on Codemasters side.   

I agree with what you say, but not that it is cause of the issue. For one Monza would be one of the worst if this was the case, but I don't recall Monza being an issue for me. Secondly, it shouldn't matter anyway if modelled right. Think about it. It would be like Hamilton's engineer saying, "Right then, Lewis, we expect pole to be around 1:25.600 and we'd like you do that in our qualy sim. I know it might be hard with engine turned down and 10 laps of fuel onboard but just drive the corners faster to make up for all the time you'll lose on the straights."

They wouldn't do that. They'd know the time the lower engine mode and extra fuel would add and they would use that as their target time. So they may tell him his target was to drive 1:28.600 to reflect the time he could do once they took fuel out and turned engine up for qualifying.

So I agree about fact we get limited in practice and it will lose more time on tracks with long straights, but not that it should cause the issue with the targets the game sets for you to achieve. At least that is the way I see it. I could of course be utterly wrong. 🙂

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@halfblindgamer oh, no! Didn't mean to imply the other guy was right. I don't know what is the cause of the issue and it would be lovely if it turned out to be as simple as that, a wrong look up sheet when juggling the parameters for the programme.

Just wanted to point out that your counterpoint (that it would have to happen in all tracks) was a bit off.

On F1 2019 the delta between my times on the Quali Pace programme and the real quali used to be on the 0.8-1.3 range. Now I've been getting everything from 0.45 to 1.2. Not that big of a difference per se, but at the end of the day what's the difference between our time and the green/purple target if not something along those lines?

Feels like a balance issue indeed.

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I have always found the expected times in the quali sim unreachable, going back to last years game and the year before that.

I just go by what time my teammate does.

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Add Monaco to the list of ones that just are weird. I had target of 3rd with 1:10.874-1:11.866. I did manage it doing a 1:10.556 lap on second try at it, but taht was a full two seconds faster than my team mate in second place on practice time sheet, and 2.5 seconds faster than Botas, and 2.7 faster than Hamiliton. So this shows I'm on too low a difficulty (70%) currently for my cars engineering compared to my rivals, but that if I did put up the diffculty then I would never manage whatever time it offered me, which I assume would be faster. Anyone tell me if that is the case?

Guess I could redo it in qually 3 as still playing it as I post this. Problem is I think it's just the times as some have said, as I expect the qually times will be close to this as it suggest, but if that is teh case then it should never be the target in practice to match the actual qually time. Hope codemaster's look at this if it is the case.

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16 minutes ago, halfblindgamer said:

Add Monaco to the list of ones that just are weird. I had target of 3rd with 1:10.874-1:11.866. I did manage it doing a 1:10.556 lap on second try at it, but taht was a full two seconds faster than my team mate in second place on practice time sheet, and 2.5 seconds faster than Botas, and 2.7 faster than Hamiliton. So this shows I'm on too low a difficulty (70%) currently for my cars engineering compared to my rivals, but that if I did put up the diffculty then I would never manage whatever time it offered me, which I assume would be faster. Anyone tell me if that is the case?

Guess I could redo it in qually 3 as still playing it as I post this. Problem is I think it's just the times as some have said, as I expect the qually times will be close to this as it suggest, but if that is teh case then it should never be the target in practice to match the actual qually time. Hope codemaster's look at this if it is the case.

  1. What game mode (My Team or Career) and what teammate?

  2. In what session did you get 2.5-2.7s faster than the Mercedes?

  3. What tyres were the Mercs using?

I'm asking because (1) the drivers now have more variability in their performance with the implementation of a stats mechanic. I wouldn't say this is exactly new, as surely previous games wouldn't treat Hamilton and Grosjean as equally performing drivers if they were to sit in identical cockpits, but looks like the differences are more manifest. That said, if your driver is a F2 one, you really shouldn't be using him as a benchmark for how fast you oughta be.

And (2) it is important to know in what session you had that relative result and in what conditions the AI ran it because just like in real life not every driver is racing for real in every practice sessions. These programmes are all more or less based on real things, there is indeed a quali pace programme – just recently Verstappen went ALL CAPS AND BEEPS with Grosjean in FP2 because he got in the RBR way when Max was doing his quali simulation run – but they're not always running it. Most laps are taken with various testings in mind and it is in just a small fraction of them that they're actually going (almost-) all-in. The game simulates this.

The game simulates this and (3) one of the clearest indicatives of it is the tyre compound they're using. Sometimes I get the AI running their FP3 session on Mediums, just to give an idea. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, marioho said:
  1. What game mode (My Team or Career) and what teammate?

  2. In what session did you get 2.5-2.7s faster than the Mercedes?

  3. What tyres were the Mercs using?

I'm asking because (1) the drivers now have more variability in their performance with the implementation of a stats mechanic. I wouldn't say this is exactly new, as surely previous games wouldn't treat Hamilton and Grosjean as equally performing drivers if they were to sit in identical cockpits, but looks like the differences are more manifest. That said, if your driver is a F2 one, you really shouldn't be using him as a benchmark for how fast you oughta be.

And (2) it is important to know in what session you had that relative result and in what conditions the AI ran it because just like in real life not every driver is racing for real in every practice sessions. These programmes are all more or less based on real things, there is indeed a quali pace programme – just recently Verstappen went ALL CAPS AND BEEPS with Grosjean in FP2 because he got in the RBR way when Max was doing his quali simulation run – but they're not always running it. Most laps are taken with various testings in mind and it is in just a small fraction of them that they're actually going (almost-) all-in. The game simulates this.

The game simulates this and (3) one of the clearest indicatives of it is the tyre compound they're using. Sometimes I get the AI running their FP3 session on Mediums, just to give an idea. 

1. My Team. Teammate: Jack Atkin. Had him for all three seasons so far. Was planning to change him for Russel on next contract as they are around same price now. Jack's stats all have the +15 and have all naturally improved over the seasons too. His pace with the bonus is  94. Can't remember all the rest offhand. I'm also ahead of all the teams in car development too at this point.

2. Session 2. I normally run my qually run then because it matches in most cases time and conditions for the race.

3. All times on same tyre, which was the soft.

Please note I did say I expect different times for qualifying, that may match the times it expects, but even if that is right, those qually times should not be target times for practice. I'm going to do qually in a while so will post the times done by the same four of us to see what relation it has to times it had me target for the practice session. I'll be quicker due to the modes on fuel, but by how much? And again it shouldn't matter. We should not have to achieve times it expects for qualifying while being limited by engine modes. Which seems to be the case.  

Edited by halfblindgamer

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1 minute ago, halfblindgamer said:

Please note I did say I expect different times for qualifying, that may match the times it expects, but even if that is right, those should not be target times for qualifying. I'm going to do qually in a while so will post the times done by the same four of us to see what relation it has to times it had me target for the practice session. I'll be quicker due to the modes on fuel, but by how much? And again it shouldn't matter. We should not have to achieve times it expects for qualifying while being limited by engine modes. Which seems to be the case.  

Can't talk for everyone but on F1 2019 the difference between my quali times and the ones I got on the Quali Pace programme were around 0.8 and 1.3 I think and on F1 2020 something around 0.4 and 1.2. I'm inclined to attribute this difference to the fuel mix settings, as we can only run under the Max "party mode" mix on quali.

The game should take this performance disparity in account when fixing your targets on the quali pace programme. That's how it used to be and it makes no sense to intentionally expect unachievable times from you on free practice sessions. 

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Okay, did qualification now to.

Qually 1: I did 1:11.437 on mediums. I was .5 up on team mate, .6 up on Lewis and .7 on Botas. All three of them were on softs.

Qually 2.: I did 1:11.002, but was stuck behind Williams from not far past exit of Tabac and lost maybe .6-.7. I was .7 up to teammate. 1.5 to hamilton and 1.5 to Leclerc.

Qually 3: I did 1:10.267.  Was 1.2 up on team mate, 1.8 up on Botas, 2.1 up on Hamilton. 

So my team mate did 1:11.452. Botas did a 1:12.2 and Hamilton did a 1:12.4.

So compared to what I posted a few posts back I'd say the target time you are required to go for is not taking the fuel difference into account and it's giving you targets the same as likely qually times while you are engine limited. I think I could have done a faster lap, but I hate Monaco and so left some time out there to lower risk factor. I nailed Tabac, but was not great through swimming pool or the last corner. Either way I'm still feeling they have soe of the times on some tracks a little off on what they should expect you to achieve.

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