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What you want to see from GRID

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Loore said:

I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?

Handling in GRID 2 was intentional and we do know that it alienated a lot of our core fans (i.e. you guys). Moving forward I'm confident you'll enjoy the direction we're taking.
I hope you are on the level, Loore, because can you really [the company] afford another fiasco . . trust and faith is like a piece of string, can't say how long it is only that at some point it runs out . .

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I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?


Yeah it was a part of the direction that was being taken with that game. Any car that gets done for any project gets tested extensively to make sure it is good in the context of the game it is in. They take a lot of revisions and reworks as well; there are so many detailed simulations going on with the cars in all our games that tweaking everything to achieve what you're looking for takes a lot of effort and understanding.

I think the best way I can explain it is ask you to look at DiRT 3, GRID 2 and F1 2013. Three games with three very different types of handling. But the same skills are needed for each of them, and any of our handling designers would be capable of making something suitable for all of those titles. So then it just becomes a question of whether people like the direction the project as a whole is taken. If you weren't keen on G2 then hopefully as @Loore says you'll find future stuff more to your liking :)

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I'll be honest, i didnt really realise people were upset about Grid 2s handling! I for one, went into the game knowing it was not a sim, and had a blast! SO much fun, backing it in to every corner! Yes, its not that realistic, but it made me feel great, and i enjoyed every second.

I'm quite happy for unrealistic handling, as long as its fun. But then again, i'm all for a great sim, having been playing Assetto Corsa recently.

I have a fair bit of faith in Codemasters, having only recently (last year or so) played much of their games, but having enjoyed every one ive touched. CMR04, D1,2,3, (Dirt Showndown to a lesser extent, but fun in its own right), G1 and 2 aswell as F1 2010 and 13. I'm sure whatever Codemasters come out with, i'll be pretty happy with.

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Britpoint said:


I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?


Yeah it was a part of the direction that was being taken with that game. Any car that gets done for any project gets tested extensively to make sure it is good in the context of the game it is in. They take a lot of revisions and reworks as well; there are so many detailed simulations going on with the cars in all our games that tweaking everything to achieve what you're looking for takes a lot of effort and understanding.

I think the best way I can explain it is ask you to look at DiRT 3, GRID 2 and F1 2013. Three games with three very different types of handling. But the same skills are needed for each of them, and any of our handling designers would be capable of making something suitable for all of those titles. So then it just becomes a question of whether people like the direction the project as a whole is taken. If you weren't keen on G2 then hopefully as @Loore says you'll find future stuff more to your liking :)
Britpoint, you know Halo games ? 
Grid1 is like the "halo" of racing games, there are "special" features that create directly the fun we know.
If you edit only one this features you completely change the game.
Grid1 handling is The handling.
A grid game under the light of evolution must respect that, so improve on this direction, not change completely, like truefeel has done, push everyone to powerslide instead DRIVE a car.
You can build a more accurate general physics, with almost the same car handling. Not chance completely physics and handling.
And this just about handling.

the same for all other central features we already said (cockpit,text chat, slipstream, spectate mode, damage etc etc etc etc).
Grid2 is not grid anymore. Call it "race driver drift", or "powerslider" or what u want, just is not a "grid" game.

And remember loyal and old fan base are the people that keep alive multiplayer online... we are long term customers, and the glue of every marketing strategy.
And this explain why grid2 online is desert left by everyone. And why you can still find ppl on tunngle playing grid1 after the magical shutdown..

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garyjpaterson said:

I'll be honest, i didnt really realise people were upset about Grid 2s handling! I for one, went into the game knowing it was not a sim, and had a blast! SO much fun, backing it in to every corner! Yes, its not that realistic, but it made me feel great, and i enjoyed every second.

I'm quite happy for unrealistic handling, as long as its fun. But then again, i'm all for a great sim, having been playing Assetto Corsa recently.

I have a fair bit of faith in Codemasters, having only recently (last year or so) played much of their games, but having enjoyed every one ive touched. CMR04, D1,2,3, (Dirt Showndown to a lesser extent, but fun in its own right), G1 and 2 aswell as F1 2010 and 13. I'm sure whatever Codemasters come out with, i'll be pretty happy with.

I get you. I enjoyed almost every Codies games too. Till D3/G2 thou. Won't mention Showdown, tried the demo, deleted it. EGO engine is IMO best racing engine out there.

But Grid 2 as a G1 successor was supposed to be next incarnation of the game we all loved. 

So how is it possible in G2, that a strictly racing car like i.e. Touring Chevy, on a strictly racing circuit like i.e. Yas Marina needs to be power-slided in every corner in order to minimize lap time? As we all know that applies to every car in the game - FWD, RWD, AWD, whatever.

If you are online racing only freak like me, you should understand that this made the game almost unplayable in old G1 style - door2door racing.

And on top of that Codies advertised TrueFeel thing and said how complicated and real the physics would be.

That's why i have a really hard time to believe that such thing was intentionally coded in the game, sorry Brit. I know that from your perspective you won't admit making a mistake, leaving a bug in the game and not fixing it, coz it would hurt your PR even more.

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Britpoint said:


I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?


Yeah it was a part of the direction that was being taken with that game. Any car that gets done for any project gets tested extensively to make sure it is good in the context of the game it is in. They take a lot of revisions and reworks as well; there are so many detailed simulations going on with the cars in all our games that tweaking everything to achieve what you're looking for takes a lot of effort and understanding.

I think the best way I can explain it is ask you to look at DiRT 3, GRID 2 and F1 2013. Three games with three very different types of handling. But the same skills are needed for each of them, and any of our handling designers would be capable of making something suitable for all of those titles. So then it just becomes a question of whether people like the direction the project as a whole is taken. If you weren't keen on G2 then hopefully as @Loore says you'll find future stuff more to your liking :)
So which game was supposed to have more "simmy" type of handling - G2 or D3?

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Loore said:

I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?

Handling in GRID 2 was intentional and we do know that it alienated a lot of our core fans (i.e. you guys). Moving forward I'm confident you'll enjoy the direction we're taking.
I hope you are on the level, Loore, because can you really [the company] afford another fiasco . . trust and faith is like a piece of string, can't say how long it is only that at some point it runs out . .
Regaining that trust and faith is one of my top priorities, sure we can find some extra yardage on that string.

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Britpoint said:

So which game was supposed to have more "simmy" type of handling - G2 or D3?
Well on that scale DiRT 3 is certainly closer to the sim side than Grid 2 (unless you had tricksteer on!). If you set up a wheel, turn off the assists and try driving a DiRT 3 car in the same way you would drive a real rally car, you will probably get it down the stage and be pretty quick. None of our games have ever tried to be full on "hardcore simulators" though.

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Britpoint said:


I would like to see some explanation from Britpoint about the drifty handling in G2, was it intentional or just happened because of lack of profound testing? And what conclusions have been made since then?


Yeah it was a part of the direction that was being taken with that game. Any car that gets done for any project gets tested extensively to make sure it is good in the context of the game it is in. They take a lot of revisions and reworks as well; there are so many detailed simulations going on with the cars in all our games that tweaking everything to achieve what you're looking for takes a lot of effort and understanding.

I think the best way I can explain it is ask you to look at DiRT 3, GRID 2 and F1 2013. Three games with three very different types of handling. But the same skills are needed for each of them, and any of our handling designers would be capable of making something suitable for all of those titles. So then it just becomes a question of whether people like the direction the project as a whole is taken. If you weren't keen on G2 then hopefully as @Loore says you'll find future stuff more to your liking :)
Britpoint, you know Halo games ? 
Grid1 is like the "halo" of racing games, there are "special" features that create directly the fun we know.
If you edit only one this features you completely change the game.
Grid1 handling is The handling.
A grid game under the light of evolution must respect that, so improve on this direction, not change completely, like truefeel has done, push everyone to powerslide instead DRIVE a car.
You can build a more accurate general physics, with almost the same car handling. Not chance completely physics and handling.
And this just about handling.

the same for all other central features we already said (cockpit,text chat, slipstream, spectate mode, damage etc etc etc etc).
Grid2 is not grid anymore. Call it "race driver drift", or "powerslider" or what u want, just is not a "grid" game.

And remember loyal and old fan base are the people that keep alive multiplayer online... we are long term customers, and the glue of every marketing strategy.
And this explain why grid2 online is desert left by everyone. And why you can still find ppl on tunngle playing grid1 after the magical shutdown..

That's awesome that you'd say that, I'm a massive Halo fan and you're right it does have something special about it. It's worth remembering how people felt (and still feel) about Halo 2 though and that not everyone (Bungie included), can get that that tough second album just right.

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Britpoint said:
Britpoint said:

So which game was supposed to have more "simmy" type of handling - G2 or D3?
Well on that scale DiRT 3 is certainly closer to the sim side than Grid 2 (unless you had tricksteer on!). If you set up a wheel, turn off the assists and try driving a DiRT 3 car in the same way you would drive a real rally car, you will probably get it down the stage and be pretty quick. None of our games have ever tried to be full on "hardcore simulators" though.

Fair enough. Still, if i knew that before G2 came out, i deffo woudn't pre-order it. TrueFeel made me think physic would be more simmy. 

And like you said Dirt3 has always had better cornering physics and cars was always losing speed during drift on tarmac. 

Noone expects Codies games to be sim. The G1/D2/D3 handling physics was fine, although G1 was a bit off.

IMO perfect game would be Touring and GT cars that handle like cars in Dirt 3 on F1 game tracks. The game would have to be called TOCA 4 then? :)

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TOCA has meanings outside of the games so it's safe to assume that the GRID brand would likely continue. That said you could still have a game with those traits you've described called GRID...

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no problem the name but its features.....i like the Grid brand , but we want this to be similar to 1st Grid  and not to Grid 2...
About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)

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About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
Outdated?
I was just playing DiRT 2 on my (fairly modest, Q6600 + AMD 6870) PC, and at max settings, 1080p and 60fps, and i think it looks bang up to date!
Thats one of the things i love about Codemasters games, is the EGO engine. Ive found it looks great, and from my perpective, very well optimised. You can get great performance without needing SLI 780ti's.

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no problem the name but its features.....i like the Grid brand , but we want this to be similar to 1st Grid  and not to Grid 2...
About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
EGO can still hold its own, there's been a few updates to it as of late too.

I'm sure the next-gen version of EGO will be something special :)

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Loore said:
no problem the name but its features.....i like the Grid brand , but we want this to be similar to 1st Grid  and not to Grid 2...
About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
EGO can still hold its own, there's been a few updates to it as of late too.

I'm sure the next-gen version of EGO will be something special :)
Is it pointless asking which of this years titles (if any) will use the 'next-gen' version of the EGO engine?.  And are we to presume the PC will also be on this version (thinking of the joke of a stroke that EA pulled with Fifa a few years back, 'because the PC wouldn't be able to run their next-gen engine' - I'd have laughed if it were funny).

Oh and while I'm on a roll ;), what day/time is the announcement this week?

(thanks)

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Loore said:
no problem the name but its features.....i like the Grid brand , but we want this to be similar to 1st Grid  and not to Grid 2...
About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
EGO can still hold its own, there's been a few updates to it as of late too.

I'm sure the next-gen version of EGO will be something special :)
Is it pointless asking which of this years titles (if any) will use the 'next-gen' version of the EGO engine?.  And are we to presume the PC will also be on this version (thinking of the joke of a stroke that EA pulled with Fifa a few years back, 'because the PC wouldn't be able to run their next-gen engine' - I'd have laughed if it were funny).
When we announce a game and talk about its platform that'll be a clear indication as to what version of EGO it's running. 

Xbox 360 / PS3 - Current improved EGO
Xbox One / PS4 - Next gen EGO

PC - Will likely run the current improved EGO, once next gen EGO is ready that will be used. If we have a more advanced engine we won't be holding PC back with an old one.

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dumb question time!

So i had a quick looky look about but couldnt find anything from an official source re an announcement from CM this week...

someone point me? thx

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Goonertez said:
dumb question time!

So i had a quick looky look about but couldnt find anything from an official source re an announcement from CM this week...

someone point me? thx
Mr Pineapples is taking a guess, we've not confirmed anything.

No announcements this week.

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It wasn't me guv, blame Fudzilla :)

"Next-Gen F1 and new Dirt title likely to break cover

By way of recent comments from the Codemasters blog, we now know that later this week we should expect an announcement from the Codies on what we can expect from them this year"

Personally I might have waited a bit to launch the new forum (its not like a few weeks would have mattered with how long it has taken anyway), to coincide with an announcement. We might have actually had something new to discuss then, rather than sounding like broken records from the old forum..  Anyway, disappointing news that there isn't any yet.

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no problem the name but its features.....i like the Grid brand , but we want this to be similar to 1st Grid  and not to Grid 2...
About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
Nothing wrong with EGO atm IMO. With few tweeks shud be so 2014.

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What about that tease at the end of this article?

http://blog.codemasters.com/community/04/codies-weekly-update-11-04-14/


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Wasps, ack.  Those doughnuts will be well rank by next week, unless CM employees get to eat them as an Easter treat.  Or maybe that's just the usual daily delivery by their new employee, Dexter Morgan, who grew tired of felling trees.

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About graphics engine Loore , has CM's made a new graphic's engine..??
EGO engine is not bad but looks outdated now...
;))Next - gen consoles are already out and games like project cars will come this fall...
Are codemaster's prepared for that..?? @-)
Outdated?
I was just playing DiRT 2 on my (fairly modest, Q6600 + AMD 6870) PC, and at max settings, 1080p and 60fps, and i think it looks bang up to date!
Thats one of the things i love about Codemasters games, is the EGO engine. Ive found it looks great, and from my perpective, very well optimised. You can get great performance without needing SLI 780ti's.
Have to agree. Every now and again I flash up Dirt 2 and it's always  a pleasure to play.

Actually, now that, that is mentioned maybe we should lobby what we want and don't want in the next Dirt game ?

In Dirt 1 the cars floated, but that never stopped us playing it, our main gripe was lack of online. In Grid 2 the floating was covered up with flying sand etc. and in Grid 3 the handling was spot on.
However, Dirt 2 handling is perfectly acceptable because the nature of the game allows for it.

My gripe about D3, and why it got dumped early, has always been the cut 'n' shut tracks . . . I am a, "learn a track", man, not a "which cut 'n' shut am I on", man.
So like Flowa mentions, Dirt 3 handling on F1 and other tracks.

I'm a motorcyclist but like any bike or car driver [in real life] we know that point of being on the edge of grip [otherwise known as one end of a coefficient of friction, before sliding velocity is engaged] and a Dirt 3 car replicates this very well.

I mention coefficient not as being smartass but because it is the best way to describe how CM treat the different surfaces and how we instinctively adjust our driving when on different surfaces.
This is all part of why driving in Grid 2 feels so unnatural, it goes against our innate logic as CM attempt to rewrite the laws of physics.

Whether Toca 3, Grid 1, or Dirt 3, handling, we cannot mention enough that Toca 3 set the standard and Grid 1 became the bible with Dirt 3 continuing the theme . . nothing else has a place in this trilogy . .so, CM, make that something else . .

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