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Guest Bicarda

We're 3 months into the life of a game that's barely, if at all, gonna live past its first birthday. 
My team is good enough it seems and chapeau for that. but the multiplayer is in a worse state than ever, and the lack of patches and updates is beyond comprehension.

Every league I know of is already struggling to keep the disillusioned drivers aboard because despite promises suggesting otherwise, this game continues the trend of having more buggy MP than the last one. 
There's still countless issues from the spectator standpoint. (Startlights, leaderboard glitches, incorrect tire info, incorrectly outlined tires, still no penalties) 

But also as a driver there's just TOO MUCH that can go wrong and require a restart. Some examples:
- Cars of disconnected people causing havok on the starts/restarts (Made worse by the fact that you cant take control BEFORE the start so there's always an ai car driving away as the lights go on and then being an unghosted obscacle. in the first lap.. with more chance of chaos as the driver tries to retake control (and there aren't even lights in my experience anymore so you better get your timing right) 
- Safety car still sometimes gives the instruction to overtake incorrectly and then DSQ'ing within a second after doing so (no time to slow down or something) 
- Safety car gets glitched out by the same bug thing that messes up the leaderboards in laps 2-3  requiring the field to overtake the s.c. sometimes etc. 
- Delta's are STILL unreliable. Especially on the start straight they not update/are wrong at the line. But people photofinishing behind can win, and sometimes both or NONE of 2 cars have drs.....
- Screenfreezes as people join/leave sessions. 
- Penalties awarded by the game for things that we DONT want the game to give penalties for, cause the game OBVIOUSLY can't reliably give the correct penalties for those. we have stewards for that. 
- Tires in f2 being random so some people are unfairly stuck on the harder tire. 
- Entire lobbies glitching out because 1 driver's pc missed it's check/his game crashed. 
- Grip hack Cheaters (Although that's more of an open lobby/ranked issue.. in leagues they just get respectfully asked to move their folly elsewhere) 
- Ghosting needs to be reworked in general as it is unusable in either mode now (AI'ing disconnects should ALWAYS ghost.. even when ghosting is off)

I can go on but I think my point is made. 
@BarryBL How is it possible that we have to wait so long for more updates? 
How does your statement that multiplayer is getting more attention this time around relate to the amount of updates and fixes we're seeing? 
Can you explain to me why not more effort is being put into testing and fixing these glaring bugs right now? We should be getting an update every 2 weeks the state this game is in. Just TRY stuff at least. it can barely be worse than it is now.

The only meaningful updates that have come out so far in three (3!!!!) months are the hold button for ERS and the multiplayer car for time trial..  The first one after a huge "you think you do, but you don't" style turnaround from you guys. It was the first thing that came up in the beta and still took months.  The bugs are still there.

Just to compare. I sometimes play paradox games on the side. Recently CK3 was released, and just like with F1 2020, in pure Paradox fashion, it was very buggy at launch. 
This is where the comparison ends though. Because within a month of release, Paradox released patch 1.1. 
I want to invite you to have a look at the patch notes here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ck3-dev-diary-42-1-1-patch-notes.1428193/
Now those are patch notes. Written by a company that wants to fix their bugs. AND don't want to let their customers in the dark. 
They contain more text than all the text in all of the f1 games combined, and are just a blast to read for anyone who likes fixes 😉

How good would it be if we could get one of those for the f1 games once. Where you read, and read, and all the things that annoy you in one way or another, just got called out by name in text and FIXED. 
Those developer diaries in general are super enlightening. They have us get to know the developers. what they like about working on the game. aspects of it they find cool. I'd love to know them better and have explained to me why the priorities are so far away from a stable multiplayer. 

IMO it is stable multiplayer that will take the game around it's lifeyear in healthy fashion. it is what gets streamed the most, gives the most exposure for both f1 and your game in general. 
Right now mp is only making f1 2020 the laughing stock of online racing games, and multiple leagues are already discussing moving to ACC, DESPITE most of the communities being super f1 focussed. 

It's just not fun anymore. We've been lied to for too long. Nothing is changing. It's getting worse every year. 
We went from July until now without any meaningful updates to multiplayer stability. And although the driving itself is great and fun while it works, the continuous frustrations of having to restart way too many sessions, getting the screenfreezes whenever someone joins or leaves (0,2 sec stutter can easily be your quali gone) , and the streams looking trash half the time because the info on screen is not correct, just is too much for many people, myself included. 

I've just kinda lost hope now myself too. Seems like you're not really bothered about multiplayer after all. For people who only play multiplayer the amount of money that you dare to ask for the buggy mess that you get almost feels like theft. Especially considering the effort that obviously went into adding a microtransaction store to the game. Something that's not gonna be able to get used a lot if people stop playing your game very early on..

But hey, I must know nothing about it, and having even the most dedicated f1 fans stop playing your game within a few months because it's just too buggy is probably a very smart move that I just don't get. 

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Quick apology @Bicarda

I haven't changed your title on purpose, if you want to change it back, feel free. I was trying to merge the esports Fuel Assists posts and picked the wrong URL out of the 3 tabs I have live. Honest mess up on this one, on me.

However, your post has been sent over to Management for further discussion and development. We are always looking to improve Multiplayer, and do have bugs listed for these issues.

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Guest Bicarda

But how is it looking? @BarryBL
Any big MP fixes in the pipelines? Should we just be patient? or accept the broken mess we've gotten? 

Over the past weeks we've had a lot of races having to be restarted or postponed again. 
Yesterday we had a race where in lap 27-35 a handfull of people dropped from steam (but steam was fine so we blame the game) messing everything up and requiring us to postpone to next week.
The screenfreezes on people joining appear to be getting worse. (I don't know if it's a p2p ping or a codies server ping we're waiting fo during the freeze but this needs fixing NOW.)

This games mp is dieing faster than one can say "pitcoin", it's once again a worse ******** than last year 
And i don't get how you are not telling us what is being done? 

How are you guys crunching and crunching trying to make this game something you don't have to be ashamed of? 
We'd love to know and maybe it would have some people linger a while longer, knowing you're actually working on it now.and not just took our money like a bunch of thieves after promising the world and delivering nothing but more freezes, glitches, and wasted time. 

Like you SAID mp was gonna be a big focus/priority this time.. TELL us about how that works in your mind? when are we gonna see the fruits of that? 

Edited by Bicarda

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I cant agree more and i think thats what bothers all pc leagues atm.
We had players lose their connection to steam in almost every league race in F1 2020 so far. (F1 2019 was far more stable in this aspect)

Two of our races had to be restarted which is the worst that could happen.

Then, the bots, replacing some drivers are driving like they are alone on the track. I guess their is something wrong. The CPU doesnt know when someone is alongside.

You also mentioned the problems with the safety car which probably will never be fixed. The VSC ends very unaccountable. I think you should get a time penalty in league races instead of a drive through. So if the penalty was given incorrect, the stewards can correct it.

 

Also: it is stupid that the leagues are driving their league races in unranked lobbies instead of in the league system because of several flaws of it, but this is another topic... 

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I’d like to second this on the Xbox side, which in my opinion has been more broken than PC. Every single League Race I’ve commentated, there has been a huge host of glitches. For example:

- I commentated a race yesterday, someone went into the Pits on the First Lap, but the game said it was Lap 3 and he was in the lead. Deltas were messed up throughout the race, penalties flagged up on the screen that weren’t even real, the list goes on.

As a driver, the fact as well your FPS tanks if you join Midway through a session is STILL present and it makes the game unplayable, not acceptable in not only league racing, but not acceptable at all.

I don’t understand how you’ve gone back so many steps from F1 2019, which in itself was an absolute joke in Multiplayer. You promised in the Beta phase Multiplayer was a priority, but the fact that for many weeks on Xbox if someone left the session the timings would break shows to me you don’t care about Multiplayer and that your priority was making a Cash Grab out of MyTeam.

As the hub of F1 Esports and home for so many League Racers, you need to look into drastically improving multiplayer, and it needs to be soon.

Please do something.

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I understand that you guys have been in lockdown as well and kudos for releasing a game with the most game modes in the franchise history.For the first month or two, all good, ofcourse there would be bugs.But there are new bugs every day now.I have been casually playing F1 since F1 2013 and now since F1 2018 I have been playing F1 competitively every day.In the period between 2013 and 2019 I have only seen like 2 or 3 bugs at most when playing the games.This game ALONE I have seen around 20.This is unacceptable for a game licenced by F1.It's unacceptable for the esports scene because now these glitches are even affecting them too.For example I saw a guy get a 0 point glitch after doing a PB run for esports.I myself have experienced so many of these.As Bica mentioned the steam errors are a thing i get 2 times a week in practice for a league race.I have had the glitch where you fall in the ground apparently and start flying around.I have had a timing glitch affect the race results.I have also had a fastest lap glitch where another driver's fastest lap shows as 20 seconds or something ridicolous along these lines.A few updates ago right after the patch there was a glitch in spectator mode where black smoke was coming out of every car for no reason. Every league race the commentators have to go through numerous timing screen glitches and they cant even do tgeir job properly that way.I can go on for hours talking about every single glitch I have seen but if I did that by the time I've finished writing this F1 2021 would release.All I have to say is this is unacceptable for such a popular game.It's the worst I have seen in my life.If you dont fix this, the game will die and you will lose all of your audience.So please, fix these bugs and focus on multiplayer for once.We dont care if we have a gimmicky game, we just want a stable multiplayer that we can enjoy.

Edited by JaneTrpkov
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I want to throw a spanner in the works here and say that actually multiplayer has been in it's most stable state since launch the last couple of weeks, I was having lots of issues like the ones described above but it's actually worked ok the last couple of weeks. 🤯

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Guest Bicarda
6 minutes ago, zZ A M P Aa said:

I want to throw a spanner in the works here and say that actually multiplayer has been in it's most stable state since launch the last couple of weeks, I was having lots of issues like the ones described above but it's actually worked ok the last couple of weeks. 🤯

I daresay you just got lucky mate

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Time to give my two cents on this I think...

This game has had continuous bugs since 2017/18... We've put up with it for 3 years thinking we'll have a game that works... and TRUSTING Codemasters as a whole to live up to as their name states, to actually be competent enough to code appropriately. Codemasters have made plenty of other games that have been absolutely fine... and keep them well maintained, I've never heard anyone complain about titles within the DiRT Series for example. They still have their small physics glitches, but nothing like this game has. It's just unacceptable that we have this many bugs throughout the only series licensed for the F1 Branding to be used alongside it. We've got nowhere else to go to look at realistic F1 gameplay, aside from mods for other games that aren't licensed and can't be made to their full potential.

I'm sure if we had a working game, this game would be rated highly. You're giving us inconsistent games for every year that this has been made. It's beginning to get a bit silly. And for £60. We'd expect a game to be made better than it has been. You're pretty much just selling off the licensed part for a price. 

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I find it infuriating that such a promising game, not only this year, but year after year has its multiplayer ruined by bugs that make the experience frustrating. Having lobbies crash, lag, freeze and stuck in loading is just killing the fun out of it. When driving in an open lobby, getting screenfreezes when someone joins or leave the lobby us unbareable. Trying to time you steering correctly trough the final chicane in Canada, but OH NO! A screenfreeze just as you need to turn, and badabing badabom, a penalty. Having that go on in a lobby 3 or 4 times every lap is just the worst.

When it comes to league mode, nobody is using it because it doesnt bring anything new to the table, frankly it restricts more than it brings. Reserve drivers should be easy to pick when the need is there, and why not add something like engine parts that wear which u have to account for over the season, grid penalties for changing parts and so on. There is so much to flesh out if one were to take inspiration from in real life F1, or even your own Career mode. 

Im really sad about the state of the game, multiplayer in particular, which is why i bring these things up. Now, i dont know what you guys in Codemasters are doing about these things, but as it is, we dont seem to get any updates on what is being done. I really want to see this succeed, and that things are being done. But for the love of god, do not announce a damn pumpkin costume skin for halloween, because that just shows everyone that you are not even concentrating your efforts on the things we need to get fixed.

 

 

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Guest Bicarda
2 hours ago, Jontti said:

But for the love of god, do not announce a damn pumpkin costume skin for halloween, because that just shows everyone that you are not even concentrating your efforts on the things we need to get fixed.

This very much. If you don't even get the game to work there is no use for all of the peripherals you dress it up with. It just shows you're greedy and bad at making games. 

So @BarryBL any chance we'll get a roadmap of what you guys are working on and what will and won't get fixed? When will this game be worth the money we paid for it/fun to play online? 
Maybe one of the devs can come explain to us in detail some of the difficulties you guys seem to be having. Why so little testing is being done on your part. 

As someone passionate about the f1 games I just can't believe you would just let this one die out again so soon without trying ANYTHING to fix it. The speed of patching is WAY too slow for a game with this many issues/a yearly game. 

As said a lot of people are quitting, or leagues switching to different games. It's literally 23:59 and you guys should know this and we need a patch YESTERDAY. 
Honestly, what are you playing at taking so long to fix this mess? don't you get how badly this reflects on you as a company? such a waste of an otherwise great game. 

Talk to us, please. tell us way more often what is being worked on (and what it not worthy of your time). Don't promise us the world before launch, and then after transform back into the guy that makes us test your game for you. We want to know what you guys are doing/working on and why it appears to be NOT fixing the multiplayer, even though we got promised it would be a big priority.

Edited by Bicarda

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as a league owner it is very time consuming trying to keep drivers interested in driving in this year’s game and constantly needing to do recruitment to replace those that cba to drive the game no more because of bugs glitches or whatever, all the drivers that do jump ship have had enough because the same bugs from the last say 3 games are still present. The last 3 weeks alone we have had 1 tier needing to restart a lobby for league races every week.

people mention it every year but for those that want to do competitive league or esports racing the ability to have dedicated servers is a must have especially for connection/reliability, codies don’t need to host these we just need the ability to be able to rent one like what is done with AC or ACC from a third party, peer to peer connection is good for just quickly racing online in ranked or whatever but for those that do take this seriously we need an option to do dedicated servers as there is too many inconstancy’s and variables with peer to peer connections.

The game has the ability to do local area network multiplayer, why we can’t we just have servers? 

Edited by cearp8858
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Another league owner chiming in, we've had the lowest attendance in our Tier 1 in our history. Our commentators laugh at Codies at least 3-5 times a stream due to the blatant bugs on display for our viewers, which were already mentioned above. Just the other day we had half our Tier 3 grid pit for the wrong tyres even though they selected the right ones in the MFD. I had hoped the embarrassment Codies suffered during the virtual GPs, e.g. Lando and Max making fun of the state of their game for thousands of viewers, would force them to make improvements... but sadly not. We also run an ACC league, and their game is miles ahead in terms of spectator tools and online stability.

Someone mentioned the grip hacks earlier. The fact that Codies have turned a blind eye to this, with the Time Trial leaderboards being vandalized with impossible times and with ranked lobbies plagued with cheaters, only for Codies to shrug and essentially say "it be like that". Oh, and I really loved when Barry pretended that a blatant bug (can't use the Increase/Decrease ERS Mode shortcut to change ERS mode in quali) was "by design". Fantastic effort.

I'm trying to be optimistic, hoping that these fixes will come alongside the performance patch (the fact that it's taken this long for it to come is a whole other embarrassment), but Codies have already broken the promise they made as they said it's coming "early October" and it's October 14th already. 

This is not me whining or complaining, this is me knowing that Codies can do better, but either do not have the resources to do so (and need to hire more people) or they are choosing not to.

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Agreed with most if not all of the comments. The community pulled collectively and hard to give CM more feedback than ever before during the beta. That we're still not seeing the key issues fixed at four months in is deplorable.

I'm not apportioning any blame to forum staff, I think there were improvements there at first. I still don't agree with lumping all the console and PC issues together. PC has the most scope for niggly bugs due to the complexities and multitudes of different hardware (not to mention the beta OS software). Even the consoles are seeing grading issues, the game should basically function on the base PS4 and XB1 and the newer consoles should add higher resolutions, more stable framerates and the best fidelity in more detailed textures and HDR.

Anyway I digress and to borrow a little from my post in the chat thread regarding the performance update/Esports if the MP experience was more like that broadcast (did not watch qualifying as it was under-reported to me at least) then there is some hope but I think there may be something special have happened there tonight to ensure no repeat of the VirtualGP series.

But yeah the spectator cam engine audio bug was still there, the L2 interval bug was still there and now it occurs that Alex Jacques mentioned the fact there were no Safety Cars during the races....it looked like there were no incidents that would have caused any but still I am suspicious now lol. 

We will all agree to disagree on the ERS implementations. Until we have driven F1 cars we'll never know - those that do may have different understandings or experiences as the technology changes.

But yeah, basics, basics, basics. Get them right and the rest is easy.

 

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As I can see it's a topic where we can say something about the state of the game, so here's my word.

IMAGINE improving the mechanics and feeling of cars so much, but yet produce so disappointing game in terms of multiplayer.

-'Create a league' function is a mess. Why we can't add or deduct penalties after the results? Why we can't change the holder of the fastest lap since when you leave at formation lap you get FL of 20 seconds (also you have to either have a livetiming or swipe through race director to say who has the fastest lap if the issue occurs)? Also, why can't we deduct or add points to general standings? Such a shame.

-Safety Car in online is a disgrace. It's teleporting, somethimes lagging out. When you overtake someone under the SC, you have to return the position, if not, then you will have a penalty. I guess it's right? It is, but guess what - when you return the position, the guy being overtaken at first, now has to return you the position! The effect is, simply, if you overtake someone under the SC, either you or the other guy gets a 5s penalty.

-Hitting a spun-out/crashed car affects in a 5s penalty. Enough said.

-If someone leaves during the formation lap and returns, his temperatures are set to the lowest value possible (-250 Celsius degrees tyres, -50 degrees engine)

-Ranked is absolutely DEAD. Why? Because people are tired of stupid penalty points system, which is one of the worst things I've ever seen. Someone punts you into the wall? Ok, you'll get a penalty point. You cut the corner to avoid the absolute carnage of L1 T1? Penalty point. Also the fact, that except for ranks there is literally no reward for doing rankeds is quite depressing.

-Spectator mode is so much bugged. For the spectator lights go out, but for drivers the lights starts, which results in awkward moment when from spect POV lights go out, but cars still wait like 4-6s to get off the grid. Spectator is given wrong info on which tyres are currently on for a driver. Spectator often gets the engine in full revs glitch, which is present in this game from F1 2018, still not fixed. There is still no 'penalties' overlap in spectator's HUD.

-DESYNC. When I did a league race a week ago, my friend for me was in a complete other place on the track (for example on my screen he is passing the wall of champions, but on his screen - and others screens - he is in 2nd DRS straight!). I lapped him 5 times during the race, but in his real place he finished 5th, 10s behind me, without being lapped. Absolutely ridiculous.

-Why the tracks are so far from the real life ones? Like on every track you can clearly see some incompatibilities. Sorry to say, but in terms of track layout realism, Assetto Corsa is much better.


-Closed beta. Why don't you make open beta/demo version if you want the feedback so much? I'll tell you that half of the people that got the beta key didn't even move their ass to forum anymore to give you feedback. Why demo or open beta would be better? Because more right people have the access to give you feedback and report bugs, which would probably result in your game being more complete.

-Where is F2 2020?

-Why we won't get all the tracks that got added late to the calendar, for example Imola? I'm hopeful that this will be a DLC in F1 2021, but I don't think so.

-What happened to all these cool helmet ideas from F1 2019? I mean, 'End Racism' and 'We Race as One' helmets are so cool, but... where are the unusual ones, like the Pumpkin helmet? Disappointed.


Don't treat is as a roast, it's a criticistic feedback and I hope that this game will be soon fixed, I really hope and want to support you. 

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People saying they'd pay for a DLC of the new tracks.

1. It's not gonna happen they arent making them.

2. Why would anybody pay more money for tracks that should technically already be in the game?

Codemasters could add Bahrain Loop track, Austria short and some other layouts of Paul Ricard quite easily, the other option would be to allow us to run the tracks in reverse. Then we have a whole new calendar.

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I can confirm the bugs mentioned by @Bicarda are in-game and I have been witness to all of them.

I don't know what development model Codemasters are using, I would highly suggest they move to sprint based development, a 2-4 week sprint would be great for the game and the developers themselves.
This would give the developers clear tasks to be done and for when, streamlining deployment and updates.
The sprint would incorporate pm, planning, development, testing and in the end deployment.

We as the community will have something to be based off knowing when every sprint will be deployed and there will be some kind of fix regardless of what different teams are doing.

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Hey @BarryBL, some communication would be nice from Codemasters regarding these issues, because at the moment, you are losing dedicated fans of your franchise every single day to other racing games - games that actually function in a competitive online environment.

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Guest Bicarda

It's true. Months and months have gone by and still we get no fixes for the mp bugs. League mode still is unusable. (except we're gonna try to use it as 1 event leagues for next season to be able to do quali and race on different days.... fix it or please bring back championship mode 😞) Start lights still not working right for spectators. Telemetry delta still messed up lap 1-2-3 after formation lap. 
Options to customize the penalty system are long overdue as well (no more 5 seconds penalties when someone else hit you), as is a way to move on a lobby when waiting for someone who glitched out. People who disconnected should always ghost (even when ghosting is turned off) and there's countless other small issues that heavily affect this games online modes.  (People suddenly stopping or falling through the track, in the air, for example, https://clips.twitch.tv/BigSassyDadFrankerZ  + https://clips.twitch.tv/BusyStrangeSowNerfBlueBlaster

 

There have been some updates: Penalties on the UI and Equal performance cars for timetrial being easily the best additions in years. 
But everybody with high hopes for this series' competitive online modes, especially since e-sports became a thing a few years ago is effing of to greener pastures. The focus has too firmly been with career and making the game as accessible as possible for pad users, and the online part has been neglected to the point that people don't expect improvement anymore. 

 

Even worse: a lot of the fixes that we were told they were working on have now after months and months not seen the light of day. and a lot of things that got marked as fixed aren't fixed at all. 
 

Can we get an update @BarryBL? Is this game gonna get fixed? Do you feel multiplayer got the attention for this game that you promised it would? both before and after launch? 
Will multiplayer get the much needed love in the next one? Or will it be as all of us here fear? Steady as she goes... the suckers will buy our broken game anyway? 

Thanks in advance!

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16 hours ago, Bicarda said:

It's true. Months and months have gone by and still we get no fixes for the mp bugs. League mode still is unusable. (except we're gonna try to use it as 1 event leagues for next season to be able to do quali and race on different days.... fix it or please bring back championship mode 😞) Start lights still not working right for spectators. Telemetry delta still messed up lap 1-2-3 after formation lap. 
Options to customize the penalty system are long overdue as well (no more 5 seconds penalties when someone else hit you), as is a way to move on a lobby when waiting for someone who glitched out. People who disconnected should always ghost (even when ghosting is turned off) and there's countless other small issues that heavily affect this games online modes.  (People suddenly stopping or falling through the track, in the air, for example, https://clips.twitch.tv/BigSassyDadFrankerZ  + https://clips.twitch.tv/BusyStrangeSowNerfBlueBlaster

 

There have been some updates: Penalties on the UI and Equal performance cars for timetrial being easily the best additions in years. 
But everybody with high hopes for this series' competitive online modes, especially since e-sports became a thing a few years ago is effing of to greener pastures. The focus has too firmly been with career and making the game as accessible as possible for pad users, and the online part has been neglected to the point that people don't expect improvement anymore. 

 

Even worse: a lot of the fixes that we were told they were working on have now after months and months not seen the light of day. and a lot of things that got marked as fixed aren't fixed at all. 
 

Can we get an update @BarryBL? Is this game gonna get fixed? Do you feel multiplayer got the attention for this game that you promised it would? both before and after launch? 
Will multiplayer get the much needed love in the next one? Or will it be as all of us here fear? Steady as she goes... the suckers will buy our broken game anyway? 

Thanks in advance!

I fear we are past the end of the development cycle of this game. Be interesting to see if they reboot the 20 game as the 21 game.

It's clear rewriting it each year isn't good because the same old issues are still present. But to offer the game as the 21 variant with continued patching from this point and obviously they can continue to insert meaningless PP DLC at intervals and have the livery / track updates as a DLC update to the base game. IDK, I think it's worth a spin*.

Given that, are you prepared to take a chance on CM fixing the core issues with this game over possible new ones in a 21 rewrite?

* It's a thing that there will be some reward for having purchased F1 2020 and put up with the issues - some will have bought 20 discounted but it's all about the DLC pricing really. You could also buy 21 'new' as 20 plus all DLC content.

And if they only started on the work on the 'missing' tracks, they could be present in June but some tracks weren't confirmed until late in 20. Bahrain Oval must surely be possible to replace Bahrain Short, Nurburgring (and Imola) had some base work as 2013 (DLC), Mugello and Portimau would be the 'hard' work. Saudi is also a new addition so we mustn't forget that is already in the workload.

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