Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dirt Rally - can we talk about damage and DNF please

Recommended Posts

I'm enjoying Dirt Rally and I like where it's going in-general - but I'm concerned that the whole issue of damaging your car upto and including DNF is currently a bit of a dogs breakfast/mess/joke.

I'm pretty sure that earlier builds had more 'damage' included - I got punctures and other issues which I've not seen in the last few weeks - maybe a drive better but I SHOULD be seeing more of that.

A particular mystery to me is how hitting a small pile of snow on the Monte will often be a total DNF as you 'sink into the mountain' but flying-off a cliff in Greece often inflicts NO DAMAGE AT ALL (just a small time penalty) - this is just stupid/annoying at the same time.

I'm also concerned that the whole 'reset to road' system allows people to stop an accident before damage is done and just take the penalty - that seems a bit weird and messy too.  The existence of 'reset to road' is not very sim - but if it's going to exist, it should not be a path to avoiding damage.

I'd really like to know what the overall plan is, because right now there's a lot of inconsistency between the stages/likelihood of DNFs and a general feeling that damage exists but is something you won't really need to know about (I'm fixing stuff at service areas but the car feels AOK either side of that anyway?)

To me, damage is KEY to making this game work.  If you can drive off-a-cliff with no penalty, we can't call this a sim or even a semi-serious rally title - we should be limping into service sometimes - we should be driving around problems sometimes - I'm just not seeing that (and as I said, I'm sure it was more noticeable in earlier builds)???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just beached my Mini on the side of the road on Monte and that apparently was way too much for the game to handle. It gave me an unrecoverable car. i could've just put it in reverse, killed the entire season. I would also like to add that punctures very well in fact still exist... I don't really play much..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree some of the triggers for DNF when falling off a cliff in MOnte Carlo are kinda weird, but its only in some places.
What might be a good solution for resetting to prevent damage is to require the car to have come to a complete stop to be able to reset it, istead of passing a visible wall and getting the prompt like we are now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Damage modelling is very high on my wish list for attention. That would also include how damage is repaired.

The whole recovery thing is actually starting to make me angry. My fault for failing to stay on the road of course but I reaching snapping point on the weekend and gave up trying to beat the 10 sec timer. Note to self, don't play the game when tired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, damage is inconsistent right now. The car should take a harder beating when hitting something. I almost never have problems to get it repaired completely in service. On the other hand, the terminal accidents in Monte Carlo often feel harmless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As an aside to this, I really do not understand the statistic-storm that is the team/engineer stuff - but since I recruited some (entirely random) ones - I wonder if that's why I seldom seem to feel the need for repairs?

That whole section of the game is really a mess tho - millions of stats and little explanation of their purpose.  I'm pretty sure that whatever was intended tho, just hiring 3 random people should not have made my car as indestructible as it is.

Note: I couldn't find an engineer with a snow shovel, obviously ;0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the percentages are probably a representative of the total part efficiency, an engine with 90% of life will just loose some power, 10% it will fail, 0% and it's dead...
The problem is that fixing the parts in 1% increments is very weird, should be at least 10% increments minimum (and of course the damage in general will need to be stronger)
Also you should be able to buy spare parts and be limited in how many spare parts you should be able to take to the rallies
Using a spare part will replace a damaged component and will take less time than fixing it, some parts you shouldn't be able to have a spare, like an engine or a complete bodywork, these would need to be repaired if needed, not replaced
This could be expanded to the tyre sets and compounds as well, like having limited tyre sets to bring to the rally, would be a RPG-like feature for the career mode and wouldn't be unrealistic/out of place for a rally :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Before you make the team stuff more complex - it probably needs to be explained a LOT better - there are far, far too many numbers involved, this isn't Dungeons and Dragons.

Hire engineers with specialities (car types/systems) and they get better so-long as you keep paying em - replace them if you change car types or want different specialities - but keep it SIMPLE, not 20 numbers per engineer...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is not much to explain, it is dead simple. The higher the number, the faster they can fix that part. No need to overthink it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But there are SO MANY NUMBERS - it's like Diablo, only the people you run over don't drop loot ;0

No sane person will hack through that list of engineers trying to get a perfectly balanced team - it's just not a fun idea/it makes no sense/it's nothing like reality either.

Just list some engineers, give them basic specialities (4wd, rwd, turbos etc.) and price them accordingly.  

Oh - and as well as costing money to renew their contract, they should be able to leave if you suck ;0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gonna copy paste a post I made in another thread as it fits here.

I don't care that much about the visual damage, but damage itself seems kinda random. Mostly you can hit a tree at 100mph and just get a broken windscreen, but now and then you drive off the side of the road and get a DNF straight away. It's lacking really bad.

I'm not that fond off the current repair system either. Fixing your wheel by 5%. What does that even mean? They should refine the system more. If one of your wheels are damaged you can tell the mechanics to replace it and add the time or you can keep going with a wobbly wheel risking to lose it.

If the radiator is leaking you can risk going on and the car might overheat, they can change it for a new adding service time or they can make a quickfix trying to seal it for half the time cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flying off a cliff should be like NFS Carbon's canyon runs - race over. They don't have to model the falling-to-the-bottom-of-the-hill-and-exploding-in-flames part, but there should be consequences!

Richard Burns Rally had a damage model where you were always on edge, that a minor slip could damage your radiator and/or put you out of the rally. I think adding a level of difficulty could make this game even more intense. As long as it can be toggled then there's no problem, is there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flying off a cliff should be like NFS Carbon's canyon runs - race over. They don't have to model the falling-to-the-bottom-of-the-hill-and-exploding-in-flames part, but there should be consequences!

Richard Burns Rally had a damage model where you were always on edge, that a minor slip could damage your radiator and/or put you out of the rally. I think adding a level of difficulty could make this game even more intense. As long as it can be toggled then there's no problem, is there?
Oh, the horror. I remember sliding off the track real slow a lot of times, hitting something with less than 50 km/h and getting a DNF (engine) right away. RBR was great, but that sort of frontal impact was vastly exagerrated. The truth lies somewhere in between that and DR's too forgiving damage model, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm all for more damage, maybe as a "hardcore" difficulty setting.

I've done numerous "I should be dead" crashes in the same race, and hardly felt any adverse effects from it. The only thing that has really had an impact is flats and losing a tyre, which I feel are happening at a decent rate and is the most scary thing at the moment.
The silliness of hitting a rock front on then rolling straight into a forest only to reset with a 10 second penalty is just laughable. Especially when you get to the service point and fix the car to almost mint condition in 30 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem with 'instant DNF' is that with some stages running 8mins, you'll be REALLY pissed if you fail in the last bit.- but that happens on the Monte right now - but not in Greece - which is odd.

I'm all for damage slowing the car and the possibilty of DNF (or at least retiring a stage) but it needs to be logical.

I did the Daily (Wales) last night during which I hit something in the middle of the track, the car flew-up and I picked-up a pair of punctures - this is fine, apart from the replay showing NOTHING on the track at that point - that's the sort of thing we don't want.

Consistency and a choice of whether you can write-off the car entirely is needed 

Oh - and the 'Recover Car' thing could be better - it flickers on and off to the point you end-up going into the menu to do it instead - it needs to make it's mind up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So not sure how many of you have checked this out, but i just came across this mod yesterday:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/hardcore-damage-model-for-dirt-rally.6657/

This damage mod is amazing! It's probably a touch too sensitive, but not by much. For the first time, I had to take penalty time in the Repair Garage, because my Radiator was at 0% and Engine was at 40%. I originally tried to repair only the radiator, but when I took off to race, right off the starting line i did my normal routine and the engine nearly stalled...first heavy corner, I stalled the engine and knew i needed to restart the game and repair a lot more than 40% of the  radiator  :D

Definitely check this out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×