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[PS4] - Lapped cars can't overtake before the SC leaving


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Hi, @BarryBL I commented on the old post, I redo the report for the F1 2020 game:

  • A detailed description of the issue. Please include any error codes here. 
  • Platform: PS4
  • What version of the game you are using (Shown on the start screen in the bottom left corner of the screen): 1.13
  • Game-mode? Multiplayer
  • We need to be able to make your problem happen internally so we can fix the issue. Can you make the problem happen again? Yes, everytime when the SC was deployed.
  • How do you make the problem happen? It is not possible to do anything but take panality and overcome the SC.
  • What troubleshooting have you attempted? Please always try to attempt to fix the issue N/A
  • What peripherals are you are using (gamepad, wheel make & model etc) Fanatec CSL Elite
  • Any screenshots or video of the issue? If the video is long, please include a timestamp for when the issue appears. https://youtu.be/BqG1-Kfycxk?t=3072 (Between the first and the second position there is a lapped who could not overtake the SC)
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  • 3 months later...
7 hours ago, MicheMai51 said:

Hi, any updates?
if you tell me that the feature will not be implemented I stop keeping an eye on this post. We have been reporting it for 2 years.

Safety car logic has never been correctly implemented in this game if we are being honest and I say that having played since 2010 (SC was a vaunted feature in 2011).

The rules of F1 have always been open to reinterpretation or contain a degree of ambiguity.

I do not think that these human interpreted rules, regulations and clauses with exceptions and the like are easily interpreted by programmers.

I am not excusing the incorrect implementation of the feature but I do think that perhaps we will never see sound SC logic. Plus, allowing lapped cars to overtake would be open to being trolled by players either not overtaking or causing incidents whilst doing so.

So in all honesty, I think it’s safe that your threat to stop following the thread is a little hollow and futile.

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On 3/5/2021 at 7:30 PM, steviejay69 said:

Safety car logic has never been correctly implemented in this game if we are being honest and I say that having played since 2010 (SC was a vaunted feature in 2011).

The rules of F1 have always been open to reinterpretation or contain a degree of ambiguity.

I do not think that these human interpreted rules, regulations and clauses with exceptions and the like are easily interpreted by programmers.

I am not excusing the incorrect implementation of the feature but I do think that perhaps we will never see sound SC logic. Plus, allowing lapped cars to overtake would be open to being trolled by players either not overtaking or causing incidents whilst doing so.

So in all honesty, I think it’s safe that your threat to stop following the thread is a little hollow and futile.

Hi,
I am also a programmer and I understand very well that it is never easy to translate complex logic, such as those in F1, into programming code.

In any case, my report does not concern the SC in general, but only the functionality of allowing lapped cars to overtake under SC. I'll give you an example:
On the web there are hundreds of forums and groups that organize, more or less, competitive championships, with 100% race distance.
In this case it is likely that someone will be lapped, due to accidents or pit stops, and a SC could help get back into the race, as it happens in reality. If a SC comes out and you are dubbed you can safely turn off the console, as there is no possibility of recovering.

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1 minute ago, MicheMai51 said:

Hi,
I am also a programmer and I understand very well that it is never easy to translate complex logic, such as those in F1, into programming code.

In any case, my report does not concern the SC in general, but only the functionality of allowing lapped cars to overtake under SC. I'll give you an example:
On the web there are hundreds of forums and groups that organize, more or less, competitive championships, with 100% race distance.
In this case it is likely that someone will be lapped, due to accidents or pit stops, and a SC could help get back into the race, as it happens in reality. If a SC comes out and you are dubbed you can safely turn off the console, as there is no possibility of recovering.

I agree. I compete in such leagues. 

But at the moment there are stronger defects in the AI, such as penalising contacts under SC, penalising small track limits infringements under SC and issues with the timing delta, AI control at restarts, falling too far back triggering host allows overtake message, non-clearing yellow flags. Allowing cars to unlap should be a priority but unless the SC code has a complete rewrite there is little to no chance of correction in this game or the next.

We must document the errors but it's clear that in times like these, a working SC and VSC are highly unlikely.

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15 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

I agree. I compete in such leagues. 

But at the moment there are stronger defects in the AI, such as penalising contacts under SC, penalising small track limits infringements under SC and issues with the timing delta, AI control at restarts, falling too far back triggering host allows overtake message, non-clearing yellow flags. Allowing cars to unlap should be a priority but unless the SC code has a complete rewrite there is little to no chance of correction in this game or the next.

We must document the errors but it's clear that in times like these, a working SC and VSC are highly unlikely.

so are you telling us that the thousands of people who buy 70 € of game deserve such an answer? "in times like these"???? What an answer. So, as it stands, "in times like these" the 2021 game would be free... Do you know... "in times like these"...

We spent a lot of hours on the game ( i think you too ) and we do as much as we can to feedback on the beta time and after. I think users deserve a more concrete answer, maybe from @BarryBL or someone of the programmer team. It is not acceptable. If the SC logic is not good codies have to re-do at all to make it sensible. If you're lapped in a championship race you could switch off the game.

Greetings.

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Perhaps it may be done in offline mode in a first time (GP - Career - My Team) where the behaviour of lapped cars is just controlled by AI except the single human player who will have to behave properly (or get disqualified). This may be easier, it shouldn't be far distant from the "you are not in P1, you can overtake the SC" which is already implemented in the code, it happened to me a couple of races ago. And it could be used as a test for multiplayer.

It would be appreciated but it's not a critical task.

Just to share my thoughts, have a nice day :classic_smile:

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1 hour ago, [F1ITACOMMUNITY]-guidomix said:

so are you telling us that the thousands of people who buy 70 € of game deserve such an answer? "in times like these"???? What an answer. So, as it stands, "in times like these" the 2021 game would be free... Do you know... "in times like these"...

We spent a lot of hours on the game ( i think you too ) and we do as much as we can to feedback on the beta time and after. I think users deserve a more concrete answer, maybe from @BarryBL or someone of the programmer team. It is not acceptable. If the SC logic is not good codies have to re-do at all to make it sensible. If you're lapped in a championship race you could switch off the game.

Greetings.

No. I'm not saying that. I don't work for Codemasters, I have my opinion, just as you do.

And I also play the game, and I also paid for it.

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42 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

No. I'm not saying that. I don't work for Codemasters, I have my opinion, just as you do.

And I also play the game, and I also paid for it.

This is the "OFFICIAL F1 GAME". I think that if the users wants a realistic SC, that's the minimum. Or do you want to talk about the kerbs/turns/walls that are not similar compared to the real ones? Or about the new missing tracks? Come on guys, a little bit more would be appreciated.

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10 minutes ago, [F1ITACOMMUNITY]-guidomix said:

This is the "OFFICIAL F1 GAME". I think that if the users wants a realistic SC, that's the minimum. Or do you want to talk about the kerbs/turns/walls that are not similar compared to the real ones? Or about the new missing tracks? Come on guys, a little bit more would be appreciated.

I'm not the one to direct this at. I'm here to try to troubleshoot and replicate issues that may be causing bugs.

Personally, I couldn't care less about minor inaccuracies in tracks and liveries. It is a game after all. 

If the game experience is about as representative as can be expected and gives a good playing experience then that is good enough for me. Basic functionality is far from perfect, i.e. menus that don't populate with the correct data, gameplay that does not follow a logical flow, setups that bear no actual relation to physical values or realistic results.

Advanced functionality such as voice control and the ability to scale to play on different screens or with different audio devices are still not without issues.

Collision detection and penalty systems are still broken and some parts of multiplayer do not work consistently. 

The SC is a Gameplay bug because the logic does not implement lapped cars being allowed to overtake and has been evidenced here.

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2 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

I'm not the one to direct this at. I'm here to try to troubleshoot and replicate issues that may be causing bugs.

Personally, I couldn't care less about minor inaccuracies in tracks and liveries. It is a game after all. 

If the game experience is about as representative as can be expected and gives a good playing experience then that is good enough for me. Basic functionality is far from perfect, i.e. menus that don't populate with the correct data, gameplay that does not follow a logical flow, setups that bear no actual relation to physical values or realistic results.

Advanced functionality such as voice control and the ability to scale to play on different screens or with different audio devices are still not without issues.

Collision detection and penalty systems are still broken and some parts of multiplayer do not work consistently. 

The SC is a Gameplay bug because the logic does not implement lapped cars being allowed to overtake and has been evidenced here.

Totally agree with the things to improve that you mentioned.

Sorry mate but Is good enough for u doesn't mean that's good enough for each others. We are trying to help with feedbacks from 5 years and the objective is to help codies and all to get a better game. For me, and for a lot of other players the possibility to unlap is big issue to fix. 

Just trying to type my/our pov.

One question: from 27th November 2020 to today this issue is being put on review to the dev team?

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Just now, [F1ITACOMMUNITY]-guidomix said:

Totally agree with the things to improve that you mentioned.

Sorry mate but Is good enough for u doesn't mean that's good enough for each others. We are trying to help with feedbacks from 5 years and the objective is to help codies and all to get a better game. For me, and for a lot of other players the possibility to unlap is big issue to fix. 

Just trying to type my/our pov.

One question: from 27th November 2020 to today this issue is being put on review to the dev team?

That's not my area of responsibility.

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1 minute ago, steviejay69 said:

That's not my area of responsibility.

Could you bring at the attention of who is in the right area of responsability ant make him answer here please?

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1 hour ago, steviejay69 said:

@BarryBL is the community liaison. I am not sure what he is able to tell you (not because it is forbidden but maybe there is not much to tell) the bug is not in doubt.

Ok, thank you, we'll wait a poke!

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This has really gotta be fixed. 

Even if the ai takes control while the lapped cars are ghosted to the back of the field is fine, they dont have to be able to unlap themselves, but the cars need to be sorted into the correct order behind the safety car. If you are a lap down and a SC comes out you may aswell just quit there and then as you are going to be stuck in the field a lap down and be blue flagged as soon  as the race starts again, effectively putting you 2 laps down.

Edited by zampa
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1 hour ago, zampa said:

This has really gotta be fixed. 

Even if the ai takes control while the lapped cars are ghosted to the back of the field is fine, they dont have to be able to unlap themselves, but the cars need to be sorted into the correct order behind the safety car. If you are a lap down and a SC comes out you may aswell just quit there and then as you are going to be stuck in the field a lap down and be blue flagged as soon  as the race starts again, effectively putting you 2 laps down.

On the one hand you're asking for realism, and then on the other hand....

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56 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

On the one hand you're asking for realism, and then on the other hand....

Clearly the game can't be programmed to allow for the 'realistic' turn of events with the cars unlapping themselves manually. A compromise would be more than acceptable in terms of the ghosting cars to the correct order automatically, it's the ends not the means. If you are a lapped car and there's a safety car you are out of the race entirely, whereas in real life you would rejoin at the back and actually be back in the race. It's a game, we don't need hyper realism just a working safety car please!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got this information from an online group:

"As long as the leader of the race who is behind the safety car remains very close to the safety he does not allow anyone to overtake. But if the leader breaks away from the safety you will find that the safety will turn on the green lights in the straights allowing overtaking to the lapped who will have to get behind the safety and wait for the game to tell them to pass it."

is this true?

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46 minutes ago, MicheMai51 said:

I got this information from an online group:

"As long as the leader of the race who is behind the safety car remains very close to the safety he does not allow anyone to overtake. But if the leader breaks away from the safety you will find that the safety will turn on the green lights in the straights allowing overtaking to the lapped who will have to get behind the safety and wait for the game to tell them to pass it."

 is this true?

Lapped cars cannot overtake under safety car under any circumstances. If they attempt to overtake and unlap themselves the game will penalise them for overtaking under the SC.

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