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If Schumacher didn’t have his accident how many World Championships would he have now?


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50 minutes ago, MisterJesus said:

My guess is at least 12

Lol it will be the same 7 . He only showed he's loosing his skill when he came back . He made more mistakes than a rookie on his return . So going off his performance when he was partner to rosberg . Plus he would be in his 50s now 

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Looking back I think he would have taken the 1999 Championship so... 8.

When you look how Irvine performed with this car (and let's be clear, the whole time during his Ferrari run, Schumacher he had minimal better material than his teammate). he was mostly on par with Hakkinen. The comeback performance in Maylisia and the once prior to his accident should give a hint on what could have been possible in 1999.

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3 hours ago, mattw404 said:

The real question is, how many would he have won if he was not forced into retirement in 2007 to make way for Kimi Raikkonen.  My guess is he would have won in 2007 and 2008.  

Tough question, given the fact how Massa (freaking Massa) performed with that Car 2008. There's quite a good chance that could have happened.

But from my experience, Schumacher was never the best Reifenflüsterer (Tyre whisperer). The rule changes requiering Tyre management during those years would have probably to his diadvantage. Ther's a good chance that he might have learned it.

It would have given us the real Hamilton and Schumacher fight in 2008 though. (I'm getting Klitschko vs. Joshua Vibes)

Edited by CS21
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On 1/26/2021 at 9:49 AM, JonathanGreen88 said:

Thing that gets me is when people say Hamilton is better than schumacher coz he got more wins and pols but think back there was not that many races per season compared to recent years 

A counter argument could be that Schumacher started in more races than Hamilton thus far. (first in the Mcclaren and of course Mercedes)

Hamilton had the advantage that he had been in a GrandPrix and Championship winning car in every year of his career. Schumacher started in a Jordan than in a good but not great Bennetton, the 1996 Ferrari (let's not talk about that). And the 2010 to 2012 Mercedes who was a midfielder back then. Also keep in mind, mechanical failures among the top teams nowadays are almost non-existent which makes it easier finish top more oten.

Look back on the seasons 1998 to 2000 how many times Hakkinen and Schumacher had to retire because of mechanical issues.

 

Long story short, looking at how big of a role Schumacher played in rebuilding Ferrari and given the time. He has a minimal edge over Hamilton considering the whole package.

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On 1/28/2021 at 9:27 AM, CS21 said:

A counter argument could be that Schumacher started in more races than Hamilton thus far. (first in the Mcclaren and of course Mercedes)

Hamilton had the advantage that he had been in a GrandPrix and Championship winning car in every year of his career. Schumacher started in a Jordan than in a good but not great Bennetton, the 1996 Ferrari (let's not talk about that). And the 2010 to 2012 Mercedes who was a midfielder back then. Also keep in mind, mechanical failures among the top teams nowadays are almost non-existent which makes it easier finish top more oten.

Look back on the seasons 1998 to 2000 how many times Hakkinen and Schumacher had to retire because of mechanical issues.

 

Long story short, looking at how big of a role Schumacher played in rebuilding Ferrari and given the time. He has a minimal edge over Hamilton considering the whole package.

I think, even if you don't look at wins, poles, hat tricks, Lewis is on top. Ok yes Schumi started in more races, but to say that Lewis had a race winning car each year would suggest that both drivers on the team won at least 1 race and it was not the talent of the driver dragging the car to victory. Eg. in 2009 Ham won 2 races, his team mate none. Heikki was a highly rated driver in a top team and only scored 22 points all year. Even Sergio Perez who only lasted one year at Mclaren scored 49 points. I know the points were weighted differently but Sergio at least finished the year in the top 10 unlike Heikki which further points to the car being a boat in 2009.

Also Schumi never had a World champion as a team mate, Hamilton has had Jenson, Fernando and Nico and as a whole beat all except Jenson, they each had a year on top so lets call that a tie. if we don't count the years at Mercedes, since Micheal has had about 40 more dnf's than lewis, Lewis is still a few race starts behind Micheal and if he wins an 8th title in 2021, it would firmly put him well ahead of Schumi in all aspects. Even without the 8th title, almost all arguments would point to Hamilton being the better of the two. Especially considering in 2012 Rosberg won a race in the Mercedes, so by your standards Schumi squandered a year in a race winning car and could have added to his tally.

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1 hour ago, NerdyDarkChoc said:

Also Schumi never had a World champion as a team mate,

Schumacher had both Nelson Piquet Snr. and Nico Rosberg as a teammate during his career. 
 

I think think you’ve got a hard job comparing the Ham/Schu periods. More races now, more points available (remember that you had to finish in the top six to score points for most of schumi’s career), the utter dominance  of one team (Schumacher only ever enjoyed this advantage in one year, Hamilton has had it for close to six), the different competitors (Schumacher had Piquet, Senna, Mansell, Prost, Patrese, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso. Hamilton had Rosberg, Alonso, Raikonnen, Button, Vettel) makes it just too hard to square the circle and say with any sort of definitive formula who was best.

The closest thing to that is percentage of podiums or wins over races run, and if you use that they are both worse than Juan Manuel Fangio 🙂

I tend to believe that without the 1999 accident Schumacher would have won 8 world titles, and maybe a race or two had he stayed on in Mercedes till 2014, but the fact remains that he was a spent force by then and no longer a champion

Edited by nothere270
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21 hours ago, nothere270 said:

Schumacher had both Nelson Piquet Snr. and Nico Rosberg as a teammate during his career. 
 

I think think you’ve got a hard job comparing the Ham/Schu periods. More races now, more points available (remember that you had to finish in the top six to score points for most of schumi’s career), the utter dominance  of one team (Schumacher only ever enjoyed this advantage in one year, Hamilton has had it for close to six), the different competitors (Schumacher had Piquet, Senna, Mansell, Prost, Patrese, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso. Hamilton had Rosberg, Alonso, Raikonnen, Button, Vettel) makes it just too hard to square the circle and say with any sort of definitive formula who was best.

The closest thing to that is percentage of podiums or wins over races run, and if you use that they are both worse than Juan Manuel Fangio 🙂

I tend to believe that without the 1999 accident Schumacher would have won 8 world titles, and maybe a race or two had he stayed on in Mercedes till 2014, but the fact remains that he was a spent force by then and no longer a champion

You make some good points, I didn't count Rosberg as a team mate as i wasn't considering his years at Mercedes and if I were, i'd say it was pretty clear that Rosberg had him beat and Hamilton for the most part had had Rosberg beat so ipso facto, he's better than micheal lol, but Micheal was also past his prime so none of that really counts. I did however forget about Piquet, but when they were team mates, Piquet was well past his prime.

Ferrari had 2 pretty dominant seasons, 2002 & 2004, pretty close to the dominance of Mercedes, in just those two seasons he had 24 wins and a total of 72 with his time at Ferrari and Lewis thus far has had 74 Wins with Mercedes, so when you look at it like that, the difference doesn't seem that large however i will concede that Hamilton has been with Mercedes for just 8 years, compared to the 11 of Micheal with Ferrari. 

But saying Micheal would have had an 8th title if he didn't crash is liek saying Hamilton would have had an 8th title if in 2016 he didn't have more than double the technical issues of his team mate, two of which caused retirements. He only loss by 5 points, in a year where his worse finish was 7th. if even one of his retirements was switched with a 7th place finish, he would have been Champion by 1 point.

I think one think one thing we can agree upon tho is Fangio was definitely one of the greats.

Hamilton, win or lose the 8th title will statistically be the greatest driver thus far, unless this year he somehow falls apart. Stats never tell the whole picture. I've never been a Micheal fan, but i'm Canadian and i'm still mad at him for try (and failing) to take out Jacque Villenueve in 97 for the world championship. With that being said, i'm not blind to his talent, he was fast, he was aggressive (some times dirty) and he knew how to make the hard passes. My gut says that Ham still has the edge, but it's truly something we'll never know.

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