SpikiestLight23 0 Posted August 2, 2015 CodeMasters will listen if we do this. Please vote yes if you support the world wide dispute. On August 4th regardless if you purchased downloaded content or the physical game. Both Digital users and physical game users can get a refund. Call your bank or credit card company and tell them that you want your money back because the game you bought doesn't work. You will get an instant credit on the game and your money back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjsharp2010 226 Posted August 2, 2015 Berad88 said: The game works. yeah the game works fine for me as well. Yes it has bugs and issues but most games do however CM are working on them we must give them time to hand out fixes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbsy777 0 Posted August 2, 2015 sjsharp2010 said: Berad88 said: The game works. yeah the game works fine for me as well. Yes it has bugs and issues but most games do however CM are working on them we must give them time to hand out fixes I tend to agree with you and the validity of the OPs post is debatable, but don't you think that you are understating the magnitude of the bugs/problems/omissions/lack of communication on release of this game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
holdin09 0 Posted August 2, 2015 holdin09 said:As a sole trader chargebacks are a nightmare and should not be used unless necessary. A lot of people miss use the claims, as in this case the game works just not how some people want or expected. If you knew what it was like to try and survive in the business world you would never use a chargeback. My quote from another thread. I bought this game inserted the disc and it came on and I was able to play so therefore it works. No claim at all then. Like I said on the other thread if you knew what it is like to have a chargeback against you when you know the buyer is just trying to get something for nothing you would understand and never issue a chargeback. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjsharp2010 226 Posted August 2, 2015 hobbsy777 said: sjsharp2010 said: Berad88 said: The game works. yeah the game works fine for me as well. Yes it has bugs and issues but most games do however CM are working on them we must give them time to hand out fixes I tend to agree with you and the validity of the OPs post is debatable, but don't you think that you are understating the magnitude of the bugs/problems/omissions/lack of communication on release of this game? well @justbiglee and the other Community managers can only tell us what they're allowed to tell us we can't change that only their bosses can. I do agree that it's frustrating but unfortunately there's not a great deal we can do about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbsy777 0 Posted August 2, 2015 sjsharp2010 said: hobbsy777 said: sjsharp2010 said: Berad88 said: The game works. yeah the game works fine for me as well. Yes it has bugs and issues but most games do however CM are working on them we must give them time to hand out fixes I tend to agree with you and the validity of the OPs post is debatable, but don't you think that you are understating the magnitude of the bugs/problems/omissions/lack of communication on release of this game? well @justbiglee and the other Community managers can only tell us what they're allowed to tell us we can't change that only their bosses can. I do agree that it's frustrating but unfortunately there's not a great deal we can do about it. Well that sure seems to be true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
banshee555 0 Posted August 2, 2015 Doesn't look like your poll is doing well :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blowndiffuser 0 Posted August 2, 2015 If any of you owned your own business, particularly in software or gaming, I promise you'd take a completely different stance on this. I understand, you don't have much leverage on the company and they do have a monopoly on the F1 brand so they are your only source for F1 gaming, so perhaps this is a way to send a clear message to them. But I don't see this effectively communicating much. They already know the game is broken. In fact, they are highly aware, I assure you. But firing a cannon at a sinking ship isn't going to help get those bugs fixed much less offer hope for a better game in the future. And there's certainly no guarantee that ousting them will bring about a more capable developer who has enough interest or money to obtain the license and will come along and give us a better F1 offering.I too hold CM responsible for the poorly-timed release of the game even though it hasn't affected me to the extent it has others. But it's clearly not finished and they should make good on that in some way in addition to the patches. Whether it's a discount for F1 2016, the additional features that were in previous games or the ones everyone's been asking for, or something to show they value you as a customer. One thing for sure that would help is having a more open line of communication - something I wouldn't say is normally needed from a game developer, but because of the given circumstances it's critical they show more interest in their community. Any of these would be a good start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DAL1189 0 Posted August 2, 2015 What do you expect them to do? Say " Oh no we're so sorry! look here is a fixed version of the game, we're so sorry!!!" NO! Codemasters are working on it. They tried something different by releasing the game early and it has bugs. To me this is really an early access game. They probably couldn't call it that because of FOM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odemdemz 0 Posted August 2, 2015 I think the OP is a bit of a diva. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjsharp2010 226 Posted August 2, 2015 DAL1189 said: What do you expect them to do? Say " Oh no we're so sorry! look here is a fixed version of the game, we're so sorry!!!" NO! Codemasters are working on it. They tried something different by releasing the game early and it has bugs. To me this is really an early access game. They probably couldn't call it that because of FOM. yeah I agree now that they can get patches all ew ca ndo is hope they can fix the worst of the issues learn from the mistakes that have been made thia syear and hope they get it right for next year's game assuming there still will be one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Operator1 4 Posted August 2, 2015 I think a better way to get them to listen would be if more people just stop buying from them in the first place.Instead of buying & then trying to get a refund, just don't buy from them at all.Every year, the quality declines. We know what to expect from them by now, so do everyone a favor & stop funding further decline.Every time you purchase from them, you're voting with your wallet - a vote that shows support for what they're doing. If you show your support for declining quality by continuing to buy from them, then your "reward" for your ongoing "loyalty" is more declining quality because that's what you voted for every time you bought it.If you want them to do something different/better, then vote differently with your wallet & don't give them your money until after they've delivered something more satisfactory.We'll never get more value for our money if we continue accepting less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbsy777 0 Posted August 2, 2015 blowndiffuser said: If any of you owned your own business, particularly in software or gaming, I promise you'd take a completely different stance on this. I understand, you don't have much leverage on the company and they do have a monopoly on the F1 brand so they are your only source for F1 gaming, so perhaps this is a way to send a clear message to them. But I don't see this effectively communicating much. They already know the game is broken. In fact, they are highly aware, I assure you. But firing a cannon at a sinking ship isn't going to help get those bugs fixed much less offer hope for a better game in the future. And there's certainly no guarantee that ousting them will bring about a more capable developer who has enough interest or money to obtain the license and will come along and give us a better F1 offering.I too hold CM responsible for the poorly-timed release of the game even though it hasn't affected me to the extent it has others. But it's clearly not finished and they should make good on that in some way in addition to the patches. Whether it's a discount for F1 2016, the additional features that were in previous games or the ones everyone's been asking for, or something to show they value you as a customer. One thing for sure that would help is having a more open line of communication - something I wouldn't say is normally needed from a game developer, but because of the given circumstances it's critical they show more interest in their community. Any of these would be a good start. I have sent them an email through their Customer service portal, not a rant, just explaining the problems I have had with the controller interface on 2015 and that I think it needs to be fixed, consider the number of patches we have had and still problems. I told them that in fact their last patch created more problems in this area than it solved. Whether they answer or how they answer will tell me how much they care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blowndiffuser 0 Posted August 2, 2015 hobbsy777 said: I have sent them an email through their Customer service portal, not a rant, just explaining the problems I have had with the controller interface on 2015 and that I think it needs to be fixed, consider the number of patches we have had and still problems. I told them that in fact their last patch created more problems in this area than it solved. Whether they answer or how they answer will tell me how much they care. That's good. This is a healthy approach. It explains the problem and the effort therein underlines the weight of the issue. Your purchase also validates you as someone they should listen to if they value your continued loyalty. This is how it's supposed to work.I honestly think a good open letter to the company could also help. You'd need it crafted by someone who shares the frustration of the group as a whole, but who isn't too naive to dismiss the company's plight and position and understands the issue as a whole (few here do). Someone who can professionally and effectively communicate the problem and a proposal to the company in an effort to find a reasonable resolution satisfactory to both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Operator1 4 Posted August 2, 2015 blowndiffuser said: hobbsy777 said: I have sent them an email through their Customer service portal, not a rant, just explaining the problems I have had with the controller interface on 2015 and that I think it needs to be fixed, consider the number of patches we have had and still problems. I told them that in fact their last patch created more problems in this area than it solved. Whether they answer or how they answer will tell me how much they care. That's good. This is a healthy approach. It explains the problem and the effort therein underlines the weight of the issue. Your purchase also validates you as someone they should listen to if they value your continued loyalty. This is how it's supposed to work.I honestly think a good open letter to the company could also help. You'd need it crafted by someone who shares the frustration of the group as a whole, but who isn't too naive to dismiss the company's plight and position and understands the issue as a whole (few here do). Someone who can professionally and effectively communicate the problem and a proposal to the company in an effort to find a reasonable resolution satisfactory to both sides. People have been trying that for years, yet the quality keeps getting worse."Kid gloves" & diplomacy haven't resulted in better quality.Outrage & inflammatory rants haven't resulted in better quality.Bad review scores & ratings haven't resulted in better quality.They don't care what we say.They don't care what we want.They only care what we buy.Money talks, and the only way they'll listen is if we collectively put our money where our mouth is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blowndiffuser 0 Posted August 2, 2015 Sorry, but I don't think it's that simple. The fact they do or don't respond in a certain way or to someone's standard doesn't simply equate to "they don't care". This is why I said, few here understand the business and politics of game development. It's always easy to criticize as an armchair activist, or heck as a seasoned game developer or even middle management, or other laterally equal industry title, but until you've held the reins, you really can't pass judgement so easily.Nobody goes into game development, particularly F1 racing and invests in the license and builds a team just to put forth a half-hearted effort only to make a few bucks and ultimately tarnish their reputation as a motorsport game developer. That was never their company agenda and certainly not on their 2015 roadmap, I assure you. If you can put together all the evidence and apply just a bit of critical thinking you can also easily arrive at the same conclusion. To make a game like this, there has to be a passion for motorsport and this caliber of it to invest the time and money and to continually do it year after year despite the decline in sales. And in spite of the overwhelming number of bugs there's quite a bit of detail to appreciate in the game if you're one of the few who bought it. The effort, to me paints a clear picture - they ran out of time. They set an overly ambitious deadline which they had to meet and this is the result. Sure it remove some game modes and arguably non-essential features many fans expected, but I think the game would have been more accepted as a new engine/platform release if it hadn't been for the bugs and missing essential features (safety cars, etc).I'm not excusing them of their mistakes, but stating it's not as black and white as many think and I personally don't think refunds or even the 'vote with your wallet' approaches will do much good in this situation. Stand for your cause all you like, it's your choice, but unless you've got valuable time to spare, standing on the internet street corner and preaching caveat emptor won't guarantee much with gamers. I get the principal, trust me I do, but even informed buyers don't care that much about a squandered $60 purchase so maybe it's time to take a different approach and have a different mindset. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captnkuesel 0 Posted August 2, 2015 Just don't buy the game next time until three months after the release when all the patches are out. You might even get it on sale. I am actually interested in what my bank would say if I want money back because a game is broken... Probably politely tell me that it won't work like that and laugh their ass off when the call is over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbsy777 0 Posted August 2, 2015 The biggest mistake they made, was to push it out the door. They would have received a lot of heat if they had delayed release again, even more if they had gone months over their original date. Everybody would still be lining up to purchase this game if it went till November, me included, but the angor would all be forgotten after turn one at Melbourne if they had got it right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Operator1 4 Posted August 2, 2015 blowndiffuser said: Sorry, but I don't think it's that simple. The fact they do or don't respond in a certain way or to someone's standard doesn't simply equate to "they don't care". This is why I said, few here understand the business and politics of game development. It's always easy to criticize as an armchair activist, or heck as a seasoned game developer or even middle management, or other laterally equal industry title, but until you've held the reins, you really can't pass judgement so easily.Nobody goes into game development, particularly F1 racing and invests in the license and builds a team just to put forth a half-hearted effort only to make a few bucks and ultimately tarnish their reputation as a motorsport game developer. That was never their company agenda and certainly not on their 2015 roadmap, I assure you. If you can put together all the evidence and apply just a bit of critical thinking you can also easily arrive at the same conclusion. To make a game like this, there has to be a passion for motorsport and this caliber of it to invest the time and money and to continually do it year after year despite the decline in sales. And in spite of the overwhelming number of bugs there's quite a bit of detail to appreciate in the game if you're one of the few who bought it. The effort, to me paints a clear picture - they ran out of time. They set an overly ambitious deadline which they had to meet and this is the result. Sure it remove some game modes and arguably non-essential features many fans expected, but I think the game would have been more accepted as a new engine/platform release if it hadn't been for the bugs and missing essential features (safety cars, etc).I'm not excusing them of their mistakes, but stating it's not as black and white as many think and I personally don't think refunds or even the 'vote with your wallet' approaches will do much good in this situation. Stand for your cause all you like, it's your choice, but unless you've got valuable time to spare, standing on the internet street corner and preaching caveat emptor won't guarantee much with gamers. I get the principal, trust me I do, but even informed buyers don't care that much about a squandered $60 purchase so maybe it's time to take a different approach and have a different mindset. LOL! So if we want better quality, we should just keep giving them our money & writing polite letters? That's nowhere near "a different approach/mindset" and it most certainly hasn't worked any wonders so far. Check the mirror first before you claim that "few here understand the business and politics of game development." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blowndiffuser 0 Posted August 3, 2015 Operator1 said:LOL! So if we want better quality, we should just keep giving them our money & writing polite letters? That's nowhere near "a different approach/mindset" and it most certainly hasn't worked any wonders so far. Check the mirror first before you claim that "few here understand the business and politics of game development." Reading and comprehension wasn't your forté in school was it? I nearly forgot why I stopped responding to your rhetoric, but now I recall the absurd leaps in logic and and faulty generalizations.Stick to your meme's and lol's. They suit you better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cupidz 0 Posted August 3, 2015 this poll is sad. but i participated with an EMPHATIC NO. go on a date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Operator1 4 Posted August 3, 2015 blowndiffuser said: Operator1 said:LOL! So if we want better quality, we should just keep giving them our money & writing polite letters? That's nowhere near "a different approach/mindset" and it most certainly hasn't worked any wonders so far. Check the mirror first before you claim that "few here understand the business and politics of game development." Reading and comprehension wasn't your forté in school was it? I nearly forgot why I stopped responding to your rhetoric, but now I recall the absurd leaps in logic and and faulty generalizations.Stick to your meme's and lol's. They suit you better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
transfix 18 Posted August 3, 2015 Interesting that it has become acceptable to pay full price to become a beta tester for games with multiple issues. Not just F1 but in general.As long as people continue to buy it will go on. Happy I held out this time around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blowndiffuser 0 Posted August 3, 2015 matt231985 said: There's always that one guy on a forum who thinks he's intellectually above everyone else by cracking out a list of big words during a debate. I never said or even implied that I'm intellectually above anyone else here so I don't know where you're getting that. Also, I don't mean to embarrass you in front of everyone but none of the words I used were big, but thanks for the tip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites