2014 Austrian Grand Prix

[yugin96 0]

That's just a number- if anything it's worse for Alonso since a) his titles were further back and b) he's had more opportunities/ come closer to winning than Lewis.

[GoldenColt 1]

yugin96 said:

That's just a number- if anything it's worse for Alonso since a) his titles were further back and b) he's had more opportunities/ come closer to winning than Lewis.

Yeah, but Lewis is in the same WDC-club as drivers like Hill, Button and *ugh* Villeneuve. :P

[buttonfan 5]

GoldenColt said:

Or Hamilton ending his race in T1 or somewhere else on Lap1.

Or Hamilton's race being terminated by someone else.

Or Hamilton on his way to the podium suffering from mechanical problems.

Welcome to the life of a Lewis Hamilton-fan on Sunday morning.

Ugh. I feel this championship will be decided today. Lewis is just not meant to win another WDC. Tell him to get Turn X right and he'll win the next 25 championships, he'd find a way to get that turn wrong.

I guess that corner is turn 10 at A1-ring ;)

[GoldenColt 1]

Unlikely. :P

[KRTheIceman 0]

It's odd though, I mean Lewis has spent almost all his seasons in top cars, got beaten by Button and right now is being beaten by Rosberg. I don't think he's overrated, but it makes you think what Alonso would have done in the 2012 Mclaren, 2011 Mclaren, 2014 Mercedes, 2008 Mclaren and so on.

[GoldenColt 1]

He got beaten by Button points-wise due to losing nearly 200 points in total (all 3 years combined) through no fault of his own. Besides, why is it that suddenly we have these 3 year-championships popping up? He beat Button 2-1, how is that being beaten?

Top cars is what Alonso was driving in aswell in the last couple of years, but if one of the top cars is a far away from the rest of the grid like in 2010, 2011 and 2013 a top car isn't a guarantee for winning a WDC. Apart from the fact that Lewis had rotten luck in 2012.

[yugin96 0]

I think Lewis had done a brilliant job this season right up till before qualifying yesterday. Hadn't put a foot wrong in the first seven races of the season- won four, and had two mechanical failures and a disrupted qualifying in the other three that he didn't. He's outperformed Rosberg imo and there isn't much room for anyone to do better than he has done so far (again, yesterday's qualifying notwithstanding).

[KRTheIceman 0]

Yes, but people say he's the best driver on the grid, well he's had a good car almost every season yet only 1 WDC? And he's not much faster than Rosberg, if at all. 2012 he had a bad time, but what about all the other seasons?

[GoldenColt 1]

KRTheIceman said:

Yes, but people say he's the best driver on the grid, well he's had a good car almost every season yet only 1 WDC? And he's not much faster than Rosberg, if at all. 2012 he had a bad time, but what about all the other seasons?

2007 - gearbox-gremlins in Brazil after what was probably the best rookie-season ever
2008 - WDC in a car that was certainly not as good as the Ferrari
2009 - dog of a car until Germany
2010 - 3rd best car overall
2011 - 2nd best car overall, no chance to beat the bulls even if he had his head straight
2012 - lost more than 100 points through no fault of his own
2013 - never in a position to beat Vettel anyway

Besides, everyone says how Alonso is the best driver of the current grid for years, and yet he has only won 2 WDC despite being in top cars for nearly all of his career (bar 2001, 2008, 2009 and probably 2014).

It works both ways. 

[KRTheIceman 0]

You missed a few years with regards to Alonso, 2012 for example. Also the 2008 McLaren was better than the Ferrari, 2010 was still up there. 2007 he made his own mistakes as well, of course he was a rookie.

[buttonfan 5]

Hopefully the stewards will be as consistent as in qualifying.

[GoldenColt 1]

KRTheIceman said:

You missed a few years with regards to Alonso, 2012 for example. Also the 2008 McLaren was better than the Ferrari, 2010 was still up there. 2007 he made his own mistakes as well, of course he was a rookie.

Ferrari finished 2nd in the Constructors in 2012, how is that not a top car? With MASSA being one of their drivers. Massa.

About 2008: In what respect was the McLaren better?

And in 2007 he beat Alonso. Kind of crushes your argument. ;)

[buttonfan 5]

Slightly off-topic guys?

[GoldenColt 1]

Yeah, sorry.

[Tommig1995 0]

Alonso's not has a good run of cars at all.

2007 Beaten on the last day by Raikkonen

2008 he got a race win in a Renault that wasn't competitive (cheating probably, but not his call)

2009 Renault was nowhere

2010 Beaten on the last day be Vettel in a superior car

2011 4th, beating Hamilton in a car that was only 3rd fastest

2012 Beaten on the last day by Vettel, driving a that wasn't even in the top 4 for most of the season.

2013 2nd in car that was 3rd fastest

2014 Currently 4th in the 6th fastest car. 

C'mon. Don't tell me that's not impressive.

[KRTheIceman 0]

No need to start reporting people, I know it turns you all on but please.

[GoldenColt 1]

Tommig1995 said:

Alonso's not has a good run of cars at all.

2007 Beaten on the last day by Raikkonen

2008 he got a race win in a Renault that wasn't competitive (cheating probably, but not his call)

2009 Renault was nowhere

2010 Beaten on the last day be Vettel in a superior car

2011 4th, beating Hamilton in a car that was only 3rd fastest

2012 Beaten on the last day by Vettel, driving a that wasn't even in the top 4 for most of the season.

2013 2nd in car that was 3rd fastest

2014 Currently 4th in the 6th fastest car. 

C'mon. Don't tell me that's not impressive.

It's not because your list is nonsense.

2007: So what? How does that make his season look any better? Lewis also got beaten by Raikkonen in the last race, in his rookie year. And Alonso certainly had the car to win the WDC, but he cocked up like in Fuji.

2008: He got one race win due to his team cheating (and don't tell me he didn't know about that, so you think he didn't wonder why his team would call him in so early?) and another one due to Lewis and Massa tangling a few times in the first lap and both losing time by drive-throughs. At the end of the season the R28 was a much improved car compared to the beginning of the season, in Brazil he got 2nd place ahead of Kimi and even the McLaren was no match for the Renault that day.

2009: Renault was nowhere and Alonso wasn't impressive either. One podium for the man who is supposed to make a dog of a car look like a championship contender. Kind of throws that claim out of the window, don't you think?

2010: So what? Beaten by Vettel after leading the championship before the last race of the season. Yes, Ferrari screwed up in the last race, but Alonso wasn't bulletproof either. Ruined his weekend in Monaco, jump start in China, crashed out of the race in Belgium.

2011: Was an exceptionally bad year for Hamilton, so beating him wasn't that much of a miracle really.

2012: His car not even in Top4 for most of the year? Gotta be kidding me. Guess that's why they finished 2nd in the constructors.

2013: Now that's weird again, so Alonso can basically make a car out of the Top4 become  2nd in the constructors, but he's unable to get the 3rd best car on P1 in the WDC and WCC? Yeah right.

[VetteIfan 0]

The 2012 Ferrari is underrated. It started off as a dog, but by Catalunya in race trim it was a constant podium challenger (bar Hungary). The thing that makes people think it was so bad was mainly it's qualifying form. That's not to say it wasn't an impressive season, but it wasn't seconds off the pace like people sometimes like to make out.

[KRTheIceman 0]

2012 Ferrari scored 400 pts. Alonso scored 278. The car wasn't upgraded enough and was already clearly a very slow and difficult to drive car. If you deny this I don't know what to say.

[GoldenColt 1]

There will be a race between 9 austrian ex-F1 drivers in their cars in a few mins lol, so cool.

Lauda in his 76 Ferrari
Berger in his 88 Ferrari
Wurz in his 99 Benetton
Friesacher in his 05 Minardi
Klien in his 05 Red Bull
Marko in his 73 BRM
Wendlinger in his 95 Sauber

And a few others I don't know that well.

[GoldenColt 1]

And the best of all: Berger says he'll go flat out and he wants to win, Lauda wants an arrangement between the drivers to not push too much.

Some things never change. :P

[Tommig1995 0]

GoldenColt said:

Ferrari finished 2nd in the Constructors in 2012, how is that not a top car? With MASSA being one of their drivers. Massa.

Oh, and if you wan't to bring 2nd in the constructors in 2012 into the picture, between Spa and Interlagos that year, the only driver to score more points than Massa was Vettel. End of argument.

Don't try and tell me that the Merc was not quicker than the Ferrari for most of 2013 either. It was.

[KRTheIceman 0]

Bottas is better than both ok.

[yugin96 0]

GoldenColt said:

2013: Now that's weird again, so Alonso can basically make a car out of the Top4 become  2nd in the constructors, but he's unable to get the 3rd best car on P1 in the WDC and WCC? Yeah right.

Not going to reply to the rest because this entire discussion is off topic, but this point in particular... that's surely the flimsiest logic in the world?

[GoldenColt 1]

yugin96 said:

GoldenColt said:

2013: Now that's weird again, so Alonso can basically make a car out of the Top4 become  2nd in the constructors, but he's unable to get the 3rd best car on P1 in the WDC and WCC? Yeah right.

Not going to reply to the rest because this entire discussion is off topic, but this point in particular... that's surely the flimsiest logic in the world?

It's the logic some people use to explain Alonsos greatness. You know, like "outdriving" the car, "getting more out of the car than there is"  etc. It's nonsense, but there's no harm in using the same flawed logic as a counter-argument, right? ;)

@ Tommig: So one more reason to believe the Ferrari was a much better car than "out of the Top4" in 2012, if even someone like Massa was able to score that many points. Thanks for proving my point. ;)