Why Does Qualifying and Race Car feel Different Than Practice Car?

[Scrench 0]

I'm so damn aggravated at this game.  I practice for hours to learn a new track, change around settings on the car, adjust settings on my wheel, and when I finally get to where I'm all set and setting pretty decent track times in Time Trial, I go to qualify and the can feels NOTHING like it did in practice.  My times drop off by several seconds because the car feels so differently in qualifying, resulting in crappy times, and again in the race I feel like I'm driving on eggshells and have to slow down and be very careful.  Setups are all the same.  What gives?  The car I set up and practice in should be the same car I go to track in.  Unless I'm missing something vital, this absolutely needs to be corrected in 2014.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Scrench

[JuanFF 0]

Hi! 

I've had a similar problem with the game this year but only on tracks I'm not  familiar with. For example Japan (a new track for me without any assists) was horrible for me, my lap times were pretty bad, I couldn't find the right setup and the race went terrible. Tire wear destroyed my race. (this is all in Legend difficulty with no assists by the way). But when I raced in Canada (a track I love, and I know really well) I qualyfied 1st, tire wear was great and I won the Canadian GP! (again on Legend and no assists). I've had a few podiums but only on tracks I know well (like Spa, Monza, Hungaroring, USA, Brazil). But I've noticed that my lap times aren't too good and that tire wear is pretty heavy on "new" tracks for me. I think it's tire wear, because in practice, you're learning the track and you don't focus on tire wear, when you get to Q1,2 and 3. Tire wear may be giving you a difficult time, and instead of driving to the limit, you have to control the car on every corner. (well at least that's what happens to me!). So I think it's a matter of patience, and studying not only the track but also the car setup. Stick to realistic setups, trust me it works (1-1 wings in Monaco is not realistic, it kills your tires quickly). That's what I've been doing and it's working for me. Let me know if this helps! 

Juan 

Sauber F1 Team 

No assists Legend AI

[JuanFF 0]

Oh one more thing, if you don't know the track well, try watching some of the track guides on youtube, they really help except for the setups though, those are terrible for a 100% race  ;)

[Scrench 0]

JuanFF,

Thanks for your reply. 

About the only thing I could think of that could be causing it (besides crappy game continuity), is the tires.  Are the tires used in Time Trial different than what we get in qualifying and racing?  I think my narrator told me the tires used while qualifying were "scrub" tires, whatever that is.  Assuming scrub tires are poor, if I select my best set of tires for qualifying, primes, I guess, would the wear I put on them in qualifying shorten their life in the actual race, or do races start with fresh tires, regardless of what you use in qualifying?

I do study Youtube videos, particularly Tiametmarduk (Ben), AlexZafro, and recently watched Rakka84 set the unbelievable time of 1:26:378 at Silverstone.  Which brings up another point:

I'm on Silverstone right now, and my absolute best time so far is 1:35:36.  I'm still early in the game so I'm using a Force India car.  I've already had a few podiums and 2 first place finishes, so I'm not as pathetic as that lap time otherwise indicates.  I won every race on the highest setting in Forza 4 on Xbox with a Logitech FX wheel and pedals.  Right now I'm using the new Fanatec Forza wheel and pedals that I bought specifically for this game, but I'm wondering if the wheel setup I'm using is just not well suited to this game.  I don't see it recommended or approved anywhere, but I figured since it was new that it would be at some time.  I watch these other guys set great times (with Logitech G25's and Madcatz wheels, but I think they are on consoles, not PC), and I drive basically the exact same lines, even shift and accelerate the same, but they set times 6-7-8 seconds faster than me.  Is the Force car really that much slower?  I use KERS and DRS to the max, and ashamedly, because the cars are uncontrollable otherwise, I have traction control on.  I'm seriously considering buying another wheel setup because I DO love this game, even with it's flaws.  Maybe I shouldn't complain too much since I'm doing well as is, but it just hacks me off to know I can go faster, but It's not happening, and some of the features of the game are not accessible to me, like being able to watch a replay of my wins.  It would be nice to isolate the problem to me, the wheel, or the game, so I can take corrective action.

Any and all replies and suggestions are welcome.

Thank You,
Scrench

[JuanFF 0]

Hi Scrench!

Well I see that you like to play the game in a "realistic way" and that's great because not everyone does that! This is what I do for all races.

P1 (I tend to do 3 practice sessions, to simulate a real race weekend and also to setup my car).

during P1,2 and 3 I learn the track (if i'm not familiar with it) and I setup my car (a Sauber). I try to setup each component individualy, because this allows me to make sure that whatever change I make, I make the right one. I'm still kinda "new" to car setup (even though I've been playoing this game since '11) because every year the setup characteristics change and it's not as realistic as it should be (once again 1-1 wings in Monaco! Seriously?). 

Q1,2,3 

Keep in mind that the tires you use in qualifying are the same tires you will use during the race. So let's say you start Q1, I tend to do Q1 on Primes (fresh primes, don't use more than one set of tires during the practice session, use ONLY one set of primes and another set of options, that's it! because if you use let's say all 4 options tires, you won't have fresh tires for qualifyng and thus you will suffer during the race). I do about 2, or 3 laps on those Primes, I don't select the option "flying lap" in the garage because that wears out your tires more! careful with that! Then I move on to Q2, I put on a set of fresh options and I go out, I do a maximum of 2 laps, (timed laps), then I go back to the pits. If those 2 laps aren't enough, I put on the other set of options and I repeat the process. If I make it to Q3 then I put on a set of fresh options (remember that we've used 2 out of 3 sets so far so if I need fresh rubber in Q3 I will have it) If I don't use that last set of options I know that I will have one fresh set of options that I will use during the race. Remember that the tires you use during Q3 are the same tires you start the race with, so don't kill your tires during Q3, otherwise you could ruin your strategy. 

Now about your lap times problem, I have a similar issue, I'm good but sometimes I can't deliver good lap times! I've come to the conclusion that tire wear plays a big role in my lap times and another factor is car setup, if you have that wrong, times will be horrible and so will tire wear. make sure you're not heating up your tires too much (especially in Silverstone, a track that demands a lot from your tires). Find the right balance (which I know is hard) and see of you're taking the proper racing line. I like to improve my lap times under braking, I'm really good when it comes to trailbraking, and I gain a few tenths during corners. Maybe you should see if you're braking properly. Car setup is the key for being a fast driver.

About your wheel, well it is true that the better the wheel the more feedback you'll get and the "better" you should be, but I have a Hori EX2 (a cheap but good wheel) and I do fine! But I know that if I had a Fanatec, or something like that then I'd be a lot better! Have you seen the new wheel for the Xbox One? from Madcatz? check it out! I think I'm gonna buy it once I buy the Xbox one of course, but the great thing about that wheel, is the pedals, those are in the exact position as in a F1 car and the characteristics are exactly the same. That's the kind of wheel you wanna be looking for. The more realistic, the better!

Here's the link, (it's the Madcatz Pro Racing by the way)

http://store.madcatz.com/categories/specialty-controllers-category/Mad-Catz-Pro-Racing-Force-Feedback-Wheel-and-Pedals-for-Xbox-One.html

If you need anything else let me know, hope this helped! 

Juan  

[JuanFF 0]

Oh another thing haha, remember that each driver is unique in every single way! Your setup is YOUR setup, the racing line you choose is YOURS, so if you can be yourself when driving (instead of trying to be like someone else) you WILL be better, and you will learn from your mistakes quicker. 

[flatspunout 0]

In Time Trial the car is fully developed, tires don't wear, the track is completely rubbered in, and there is in essence no fuel weight in the car. There is no point working on a setup in Time Trial hoping that it will transfer to a race. Actually there is no point in working on setups at all, 1-1 11-11 is still the fastest way around any track in the game.

[Scrench 0]

flatspunout,

That makes sense, but if I want to practice on a track with a car that feels similar to the qualifying and race cars, how do I do it?

JuanFF,

I used to win all my races by braking later and harder than anybody else, but then I learned an epiphinal point:  Braking late only wins the race to that corner, the person who comes out of that corner the fastest will always win on the straights.

[JuanFF 0]

Hi Scrench!

Practice sessions in career mode should give you the right feedback. Like I said before, repeat the practice session if you need to, and as as many times as you want, that way, you will get a better feel of the car.

About braking, it's true that the person who comes out of that corner the fastest will always win on the straights, but keep in mind that if you brake late, and you trailbrake, you should be able to carry more speed into the corner and thus be faster on corner exit. if you brake, then realease the brakes and then turn in, you're gonna be a lot slower into the corner, even if you're car accelerates well. Look at the current world champions. Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, all brake really late, but the ability that they have to trailbrake properly allows them to be carry more speed into the corner and thus be faster on the straights. Also they love late apexes. Late apex allows you to accelerate earlier than the geometric apex and thus be faster on the srtaights. I'm not saying you're wrong, actually what you're saying is completely right. In real life, amazing drivers (Schumacher, Senna) always gained advantage on braking. if you trailbrake, you will carry more speed into a corner. A lot of drivers focus on their acceleration but not on the speed they have when entering a corner.

[Scrench 0]

JuanFF,

Thanks for that explanation.  Perhaps I don't understand trail braking.  I do exactly what you said, just brake as late and hard as I can in a straight line, then left off the brakes completely and begin to turn in.  I always feel like I'm losing something in the few moments when I am essentially drifting thru the corner before I can apply power again.