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League mode.


Guest Bicarda

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Guest Bicarda

@BarryBL @RedDevilKT

Made a few topics about this already. But since we now HAVE to use league mode for next season, and I'm testing it at this very moment, I'm gonna explain as clearly as I can, WHY we didn't use it before, still very much rather not use it, and the issues we run into. 

Firstly, the reason we now have to use league mode is because we want to do quali and race on different days. We want to save the session after qualifying, keep park ferme and q2 quali tires, and do the race the next day.  Now this USED to be so easy to do with championship mode. Save session after quali and continue the next day. We could do this per event or make the calendar in advance, restart a session if things went awry, and the grid didn't get filled with ai drivers. 

Now championship mode is no more, and I want to explain why league mode is such a huge step backwards, why it is of no use to use as it is, and why we can't even really use it as it is supposed to if we want to. 
- We NEED to use on demand. because every league needs the flexibility to change times a bit if necessary. But also because you guys made it so the ONLY way we can stop playing after quali, and do the race the next day, is by picking "On Demand" in the settings: WHY4.thumb.png.0d92c11e6fbb215207c2421e1c3a9cc6.png
 
- This leads to problems as On demand forces you (for some reason) to fill the grid with ai reserves:

WHY.thumb.png.bf2d1fcba6a9f91b01ca49420fce9759.png

- This wouldn't be a problem if we could change the number of drivers in the race during the season but alas: 

WHY3.thumb.png.8be70f83b4cbd57cc4c28ab99c79366d.png


So there you have it. A very, very big issue that leagues that don't want to use AI in their races barely can go around. No league can guarantee 20 driver attendance for the entire season, and they shouldn't need to to stop having ai in the races. The thing we're thinking of now is make a league for every event. (just pop the same race after each other 5 times to get around the minimum 5 races thing)  So we can adjust the number of drivers to the number of signups.  So when we have 18 people signed up we change that to 18/4 JUST so we get no ai drivers. and then for next race we need to redo the whole league to set it back to 20 when everyone's present again.. Or, you know, reserves fill the slots. 

Which brings us to my last big point of why we can never use this league mode the way it's supposed to (like.. have IT keep score for us or something) Is the inflexibility with reserves. Reserves are not PART of the league. you can just invite randoms to fill the spots. And if they are there they both score points for the driver they replace (REALLY WEIRD) as well as their team, or not at all. 

WHY2.thumb.png.cec76a9aed9e283fa31999c934537c0f.png


Firstly, for us and most leagues we DO need them to score for themselves (albeit invisibly) so when they eventually get a full time seat they keep those points. <-- but if this was the  only thing we could live with it.  But we do absolutely need them to score for their team, because that's what our whole team game, and 1 reserve driver per team format is build on. while OBVIOUSLY not scoring for the driver they replace.. because scoring poins for someone else is wrong in SO many ways man.. incredible that this setting got in in this fashion. 


But yeah. The most obvious improvements to me: 

-Have us disable ai with 1 setting and force it in NO WAY WHATSOEVER via other options. No. A. I. even if there's only 3 damn people.  On demand or scheduled. 
-Make it so we can add 30 drivers (at least) to the league (3 per team) that all can score for themselves and their team. First 2 of a team that join the lobby are in, third one that tries gets a message "There are no available slots in your team for this session. If you want to join as spectator ask the league admin for an invite"  This gives us so much more flexibility. and would make us actually able to use the league mode to the the standings for us. 
-But while it doesn't apply to us: Also make a setting where you can add (at least) 30 drivers to the league where reserves are NOT assigned to a team and are free agents. make both options.


Until both issues are fixed, League mode is as good as unusable to us. As said we're gonna try it (1 league per event, delete, repeat) for the next season because we HAVE to because you took away our championship mode that was perfect as it was. But KNOW that this increases our workload a LOT just to do quali on a different day. And I already forsee a LOT of issues with late minute people that can't be there after all and we would have to REMAKE THE ENTIRE LEAGUE OR have an ai car in the mix because we're 1 car short then. So I'm already very very very very much NOT looking forward to use it. EVEN race per race. 


If you guys have any workarounds for the problems we're facing that wouldn't need a patch you're welcome to share with us too. We really need to make this work because if there's no park ferme.. what's the point of doing full quali. and we just can't have ai drivers. 

Ps. Just thought of this: If someone CAN be present for the race and not for quail... we are now FORCED to have an ai car drive quali for that person... unghosted... ai car.. on track in a multiplayer quali. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.  
 

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Guest Bicarda

Okay, update. We did some testing. Ai reserves don't come out in quali which is a relief. 

We have found something very serious however. and that is that Parc Ferme setups doesn't transfer between quali and the race (if you go back to the menu in between) 
This is pretty serious and, for us, removes the need to use the league mode altogether, because the whole point of it was to enforce parc ferme. 

Tires and tire wear do carry over. But tires are easily enforced in unranked anyway and.... in the end we don't really think all that is worth the effort JUST to give the top 10 5% tire wear at the start of every race. It would have been if the setups came across too. but now we found that they don't.  (There's also no way of enforcing it via telemetry as player setups are not in there. (They are however when they leave and the ai takes over their car <-- oversight. but that is of no use for us as we can't go about asking everybody to leave during a session to check their setups.


So now we're at the point where in f1 2020. it is currently impossible to do quali and race on different days while enforcing parc ferme.. or use the league mode at all because of the reasons above. 

PLEASE fix this. 2 games in a row league mode is unable for ANY serious league. we need the features that were working so fine in championship mode but got butchered in this league mode behind weird restrictions in terms of forced ai and reserve driver management. And now parc ferme isn't even working. 

SO updated fix list: 

-Please have us disable ai, always, altogether
-Please have us add more than 20 drivers to the league
-Please fix parc ferme and have it carry over between quali and race, even if it's on different days. I worked fine in championship mode too.

 

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I agree with every single point made by Bicarda. The league system is just so bad. It looks like it was designed by someone who thought he/she knew what this mode needed, instead of someone who actually researched what the players want/needed. Yes, if you look at the mode and think that everything will go as planned, the league mode can be useful in some very particular cases. In most leagues, nothing goes as planned. But the league mode offers zero flexibility to coop with these unexpected problems.

I only use league mode with my friend. We race against each other with 18 AI drivers. But we can't reset a race when we both crash in T1 or if one of us has a problem. We can save the qualifiying results, but then the setups aren't saved and tire wear is gone. We experience the same issues everytime we play, it's just afwufl. We didn't experience any of these issues with the old championship mode. But Codemasters mistakenly thought that they could make a better all-in-one mode for leagues. They didn't. They failed big time. 

I had some hopes that they would fix this mess in F1 2020, but the league system is still not worth it. When leagues all around the world rather use excel sheets and single events to organise a league than using your leage mode, it is a sign on the wall that you are doing it wrong.

F1 2020 is not a perfect game. In some cases it is just a bad game. If you are a league admin, it's just an awful game. We have to ask everyone every race to not ready up on the grid, because the standard 30 seconds are too little to set a proper strategy. Why did nobody at CM think that it might me a good idea to put that power in the hands of the admin. After every race, multiple 5 second penalties have to be removed because a little kiss during the SC gives the driver in front that did nothing wrong a penalty. It makes running a league so much more work than it should be. It's a shame.

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Guest Bicarda
On 2/12/2021 at 1:18 PM, BarryB said:

I don't think you should use the online leagues, they're not flexible at all. If you must have the quali and race on a different day, just host yourself.

Yeah well that way we have no way to save tires/weather/parc ferme. It's how we're gonna do it now but it's far from ideal. and it shows that even if we're willing to think of whatever workaround we can to make league mode work. it's not possible with the best will in the world. Apart from it not working (parc fermé) 

 

 

@BarryBL What do you think? Can you take this to the devs and are they actually gonna do something about it?
Or will league mode in next game be as unusable as this game?

And another question: Why don't you guys host the forum league in league mode? If you did you could have found the issues for the devs... these are not things you need to play the game 2k hours to spot. These are things that you notice the instant you try to create a league...

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Guest Bicarda

@BarryBL

A reply would be nice. 

We would very much like to get your game to work before our new season starts or find a workaround for our issues. 


League mode gets brought up by a lot of people as the first thing that annoys the hell out of them with this game. 

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