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Calling all Fanatec Xbox users: PROOF that additional wheel inputs can be achieved!!!


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If you’re a frustrated Fanatec Xbox user, disappointed with limited inputs, this is going to be essential reading.

Strap yourself in because it’s going to be a long post, but please persevere with it because it’s going to be worth it if this issue effects you.

TL;DR at the bottom, if you want a summary.

As some of you may know (who have seen my activity), I recently switched from a Logitech G923 to Fanatec gear and I have been commenting heavily about all of the functionality of the G923 wheel being supported on ACC on Xbox

So what? We’re using Fanatec gear, why is this important? 

Well, you’ve probably heard (on forums and from Fanatec) that the limited wheel input experienced by Fanatec users on Xbox is down to Microsoft restricting 3rd party peripheral inputs to that of a standard Xbox controller. i.e. Sorry, there’s nothing that can be done about getting all the extra buttons/ knobs/ rev lights etc working on Xbox - “big bad” Microsoft aren’t playing ball.

This was the reply I received from Fanatec support in Dec 20: “Unfortunately, Microsoft only allows the buttons you can find in their regular controllers to be mapped and used (meaning that it doesn't support the use of thumb encoders, two way switches, or multi position switches)” - screenshot below.

Hang on, you say all the G923 functions work on ACC for Xbox? So if Microsoft limit inputs, how did Logitech get it working when Fanatec can’t? 

I did say that - this was the case when I owned the wheel from Sep 20 when I bought ACC (so this was the case before I enquired to Fanatec in Dec 20). Now I can prove it - this is what led to this post. 

Through some investigative work and collaboration amongst Codemaster forum members, we’ve found it was achieved via a two-step process; 

  •         Logitech developed the software to give the opportunity for game developers to use the additional inputs on their wheel (called a “SDK”). 
  •         The game developers then use this SDK to get those additional inputs working in their game.

Important note 1: Both these steps need to happen for the additional inputs to work in any game. When I had the G923 all functions worked on ACC, but on GRID the additional buttons didn’t (rev lights work in both games). This proves the 2nd point (see screenshots below).

Important note 2: I gather the outlined two-step process applies for any wheel manufacturer wanting to go over the standard number of Xbox inputs. If the wheel manufacturer doesn’t develop this SDK for their hardware, then the standard Xbox SDK is being used, thus limiting inputs to the same number as a standard Xbox controller (see screenshots below).

So have Fanatec developed the SDK’s?

I genuinely can’t say - you’d have to assume not, given the state of play. No one is able to confirm and I have not been able to find evidence of them existing for Xbox (if they did the functions would already be working right? Also, if they did exist and were awaiting approval from Microsoft, they would say so?). If they did exist and were fully functional I highly doubt Codemasters would choose to leave them out of the F1 Games; I know for sure on PS4 they haven’t (PS have expanded the inputs allowed on their standard SDK, so Fanatec didn’t need to to develop a SDK and Codemasters have made use of the additional inputs available on F1 2020).

OK, what if you’re wrong? Maybe Microsoft is contributing to the issue somehow?

OK, I might be, but I (and others) that have been given the “Microsoft limits inputs...”, can only take that at face value. It doesn’t explain why it can’t be achieved, which we now know it can, not does it tell us what Fanatec are doing to try to persuade Microsoft. That reasoning is akin to completely disowning and taking no responsibility on the issue. If there is something else going on Fanatec should say so, and explain what they are doing to help resolve it.

So, if the issue really is Microsoft’s and Fanatec really do care about it, why not set up some kind of platform so that the effected users can rally behind them on it? Perhaps some kind of poll/survey, to see how many are effected? Fanatec will have access to the right contacts at Microsoft, and could easily collate and pass that info on (if they cared). Even if nothing comes of it, at least they tried rather than give their Xbox customers the cold-shoulder - surely that’s better from a customer relations point of view? 

Showtime: The proof - Logitech G923 working on ACC on Xbox 

There’s been some requests to obtain proof of this (because clearly my “word” is worthless to some of you🤔).

So to make believers of you all, I contacted the person I sold my G923 wheel to, and they have kindly provided the following video (see below - click in the blank space below and the video should start).

It’s one continuous shot - all the way from the Home Screen to gameplay. You can see the wheel controlling the whole process: starting the ACC game, and in the button mapping screen that the +/- and dial left/right rotations are recognised, as well as the rev lights working in gameplay. You’ll just have to believe my (this time) that the remaining inputs not shown (RSB/LSB, and dial “enter” button) also work as inputs. The general assertion is proved - these inputs shown are above the standard controller range. You can also see the rev lights working in game (that needs inputs coming back from the game). For avoidance of doubt, that mod on the wheel is a MVH Studio rim - as good as it is, it’s nothing more than a piece of plastic, and does nothing to get additional wheel functions working on Xbox.

I’m an effected Xbox user, what now?

It’s only right and long overdue that Fanatec tell us what the situation actually is. Make no mistake, this is important - you are now armed with the knowledge and proof of what is possible. What is clear is we need to make more noise about this where possible, and in order to make a real impact, I can’t do it alone and need your help;

  •         Get in contact with Fanatec and let them know Logitech have managed to get the G923 fully working on the Xbox.
  •         Ask them what they are doing about their own wheel support on Xbox in light of this.
  •         If they tell you Microsoft limits inputs line, repeat the first point.
  •         Spread the message and knowledge to other Xbox Fanatec users, via your game forums etc so that they can do the same.

I hope the above has been informative. If you stuck with me this far, thank you. If you take up the cause - thank you, and may the force be with you. 

Monzie 🏎 

EDIT 20/03/20: There is also evidence of other types of 3rd party peripherals being fully supported on Xbox: https://fselite.net/news/honeycomb-aeronautical-reveals-new-controls-xbox-support-and-more/ and https://twinfinite.net/2020/11/microsoft-flight-simulator-honeycomb-xbox-series-x-s/

TL;DR

Fanatec can’t say limited wheel support on Xbox is because of Microsoft, Logitech G923 proves otherwise (see video). It was achieved via Logitech developing an SDK. Let Fanatec know they have the ability to get functions working, ask them what they intend to do about it, and spread the message about this to others. ☮️

55CCD79C-4B78-4017-880C-CF86B583EF80.jpeg

6CD480E9-DA60-431D-8396-2FF242D2025A.jpeg

D9D7B4A6-30D7-4FED-860E-827FA244B569.jpeg

 

B3A9DE5C-5748-4462-91CA-06FE9085C420.jpeg

Edited by Monzie83
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I've had mine since Nov.  ACC always had button/light support and their update not long later added trueforce.  DR2.0 worked as a basic FF wheel but LSB/RSB, the dial, enter, +&- and rev lights didn't work.  Apparently the recent patch has messed even that up.  PC2 thought it was a basic/old thrustmaster.
 

 

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19 hours ago, MauriceMiller said:

I've had mine since Nov.  ACC always had button/light support and their update not long later added trueforce.  DR2.0 worked as a basic FF wheel but LSB/RSB, the dial, enter, +&- and rev lights didn't work.  Apparently the recent patch has messed even that up.  PC2 thought it was a basic/old thrustmaster.
 

 

Super - thank you for confirming that it does work on ACC for Xbox and for the video also!

It all worked when I had the wheel (from release) but didn’t realise how much of an issue this was until I switched to Fanatec gear and sold my G923 wheel in December. Would have made a video of it all working if I knew what I do now then. I searched far and wide for video evidence and in the end got in touch with the buyer to make one!

Edited by Monzie83
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On 2/23/2021 at 3:21 PM, MauriceMiller said:

DR2.0 worked as a basic FF wheel but LSB/RSB, the dial, enter, +&- and rev lights didn't work.  Apparently the recent patch has messed even that up.

Known issue regarding 1.17 and Logitech wheels. Rally team is investigating.

 

[update: fixed in final patch]

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@Monzie83 Something I noticed when using my Fanatec gear in DiRT Rally 2.0 across both Steam and Xbox is that on Steam I have access to more force-feedback options.

When I ported my Xbox settings over I wondered why the wheel felt different, and turning Wheel Friction and Tyre Friction to zero gave me an identical feeling to my Xbox settings.

I guess this is another side-effect of the wheel not having native support on Xbox.

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28 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

@Monzie83 Something I noticed when using my Fanatec gear in DiRT Rally 2.0 across both Steam and Xbox is that on Steam I have access to more force-feedback options.

When I ported my Xbox settings over I wondered why the wheel felt different, and turning Wheel Friction and Tyre Friction to zero gave me an identical feeling to my Xbox settings.

I guess this is another side-effect of the wheel not having native support on Xbox.

Thanks for the input @PJTierney, the more examples of this type of thing we can gather, the better 👍🏽

Edited by Monzie83
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  • 1 month later...

As an Xbox One owner and soon-to-be owner of a new Fanatec McLaren GT3 v2 wheel (with lots of non-standard inputs), I would LOVE to see some kind of resolution to this issue. From what I can gather, it appears that the onus is on Fanatec to develop the appropriate SDK, and then make it available to software developers e.g. Codemasters, Kunos, etc. so that they can take advantage of the extra inputs within the games themselves...?

So basically, if I understand correctly, Fanatec are the ones who hold the key to get the ball rolling on this, and they're the ones who we should be contacting?

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One thing to note is that there are some positives to Fanatec's approach.

Take the WRC wheel for example; it's not natively supported in DiRT Rally 2.0 yet when you plug it into an Xbox it "just works" as the console considers it the same as any other steering wheel.

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23 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

One thing to note is that there are some positives to Fanatec's approach.

Take the WRC wheel for example; it's not natively supported in DiRT Rally 2.0 yet when you plug it into an Xbox it "just works" as the console considers it the same as any other steering wheel.

Yeah, fair enough I suppose. I'm not an expert by any means when it comes to knowledge of coding and SDK's, but...would someone like Codemasters supporting a "custom Fanatec SDK" need to come at the expense of not being able to support the standard Microsoft SDK that apparently is currently being used? I would think that if a game can support a custom Logitech SDK (as evidenced by the functionality of the additional G-series buttons), alongside the "generic" MS SDK that is currently being used by the Fanatec hardware, then surely it couldn't be *that* much more work for CM to implement a custom SDK from Fanatec for their specific hardware as well, providing Fanatec were willing/able to produce such a custom solution.

Then if a specific game doesn't recognize a Fanatec wheel as something it supports, users would presumably be able to tell the game to just use a different, generic control profile and at least have basic functionality. Or am I missing something in my understanding of this whole situation?

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Some Fanatec (and Logitech) comments from GTPlanet, which clear up a few things:

 

image.png

image.png

 

Unless Fanatec build a brand-new wheel technology that the current Microsoft system doesn't support (like how Logitech introduced TRUEFORCE), I'd say this is a non-starter.

It must be said however, Fanatec wheels still play great on Xbox; even though I don't have access to shift lights and rotary switches the force-feedback is good and the Podium paddles really elevate the experience. I'm sure '21 will be just as fun to play on Xbox as '20 was.

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

Unless Fanatec build a brand-new wheel technology that the current Microsoft system doesn't support (like how Logitech introduced TRUEFORCE), I'd say this is a non-starter.

It must be said however, Fanatec wheels still play great on Xbox; even though I don't have access to shift lights and rotary switches the force-feedback is good and the Podium paddles really elevate the experience. I'm sure '21 will be just as fun to play on Xbox as '20 was.

All due respect, but I hope you're wrong. I feel like it's a bit of a black eye on Fanatec's reputation for building "premium" sim racing gear for Xbox when an "entry-level" wheel from the likes of Logitech is able to implement functionality that Fanatec is not. I feel like as Xbox users of Fanatec products, we shouldn't be content to just sit back and accept that we're not able to utilize things like rev lights, toggles and rotary encoders that gamers on PC and PS4/5 are fully able to enjoy. "That's just the way it is" isn't good enough here.

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That's fair enough, but ultimately this is a Fanatec issue and not a Codemasters one. If you want to see it changed you'll have to take it up with them.

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9 hours ago, PJTierney said:

That's fair enough, but ultimately this is a Fanatec issue and not a Codemasters one. If you want to see it changed you'll have to take it up with them.

Agreed. Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was having a go at you personally, or at CM. It's just a frustrating situation all around. But thank you for helping bring a bit more clarity to the matter.

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Hi all,

I must admit, I do not think things are so clear-cut anymore. 

I started the topic originally to combat the Fanatec reasoning I was given that “Microsoft limits inputs on 3rd party peripherals to that of a standard Xbox controller”, and also to inform other Fanatec Xbox users of this as most have a long-held belief that the Microsoft were to blame because of this Fanatec reasoning, because well, Logitech did it.

Since I’ve posted this on various forums (including Fanatec’s), the discussion has been interesting and at times, difficult (particularly on the Fanatec forum, where some users are particularly aggressive), stupid (and funny - ah the excuses I’ve heard, again on the Fanatec forum…).

Through some of these discussions, it’s not clear anymore what’s actually going on, and that Logitech being able to achieve extra inputs isn’t the “silver bullet” I thought it was going to be.

Summary;
- It is true Logitech were able to get extra buttons, a rotary and rev lights working on the G923 for Xbox. That is a fact.
- We think they did this via creating a SDK (as explained above), and it appeared, at that time, to be Fanatec’s responsibility to get this working.
- Simple enough. However, this then comment appeared on the Fanatec forum recently, which if true, might explain some Microsoft culpability in the situation; “I dealt with a customer complaints specialist from Microsoft for 4 days before they closed my case without a solution. Not being happy about this I wrote back to Microsofts CEO citing my disappointment and was passed to an Executive from Customer Escalation. This person informed me that Microsoft were aware of the limitations in their product in working with Fanatec's SDK and that they hoped to be able to provide a solution soon.” (https://forum.fanatec.com/discussion/comment/67151#Comment_67151). 
- On the same Fanatec Forum thread above I also hear (which kind of backs up the above point), that ‘Microsoft need to open up Xbox limitations so that the Fanatec SDK can be implemented’. If this is true did Microsoft do this for Logitech and are leaving Fanatec in the dark? It doesn’t make sense commercially. And how did Logitech get around this if not given a “pass” by Microsoft? 

So many questions, and so many versions of the “truth”… I genuinely do not know who or what to believe anymore. All I know is it can be done.

What we really need is someone to fill us in on the roles and responsibilities of the entities involved and general flow of activities in getting this working.

 @PJTierney or anyone else reading - do you know anyone who might be able to fill in the blanks/ make sense of all the above?

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Interesting stuff; I don't have any further information.

I guess we need to wait and see but it sounds like something might be in the works?

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4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Interesting stuff; I don't have any further information.

I guess we need to wait and see but it sounds like something might be in the works?

Fingers crossed 🤞🏽 

It just feels like the lack of general understanding about this in the consumer base has played into Fanatec and a Microsoft’s hands, and means we can’t ask the right questions - it’s probably where they want us while they figure things out, but is certainly bad from a customer relations point of view.

While the information we have found and presented has moved the conversation on a bit, it appears it has moved it into a bit of a no-mans land;

- If Microsoft are hesitant to open up their limitations, then we could direct our issues to them. Fine. If this was the case all along, I’m surprised Fanatec didn’t organise something earlier for the effected users to get behind to spur Microsoft into action, and they should still do this if Microsoft are being the issue.

- If no limitations exist, then why are Fanatec trying to get Microsft to open up whatever it is? In that situation, surely Microsoft provide some kind of construct/ guidance for those wanting to go above standard inputs? Fanatec have the tools and the guidance, so they just need to get on with it? Maybe there isn’t any guidance and that why they need to work together. Ultimately, it’s the Fanatec product that needs to work on the Microsoft platform, so I’m sure Microsoft have some rules for that they would communicate. If they don’t, and each integration needs to developed separately, well… I don’t see how that is sensible from security etc from Microsoft’s point of view…

- Maybe there is a hard limit, and the clever devs at Logitech figured a way around it? Unlikely.

- Maybe there is a hard limit on the Microsoft side and they opened it up for Logitech alone, due to some commercial agreement/ payoff between them, but then that doesn’t make long-term commercial sense for Microsoft as better general 3rd party support = more potential console sales… I can see why Logitech would want this, but can’t believe Microsoft would permanently go with this unless they got paid - even then, really? It’s Microsoft, they’re not exactly strapped for cash - so maybe the agreement is for Logitech have some exclusivity on this for a time, and it’s only a matter of time before it’s opened up for other 3rd party peripheral makers, and that’s what Fanatec are waiting for. If it is simple as some kind of commercial agreement/ payoff that Fanatec could access now, perhaps Fanatec don’t want to do it as the price is too high and the Xbox user base is too small - they might be waiting for Microsoft to see sense… although we know they’re not exactly broke given all the new products recently released…

The last point is now where my thoughts on the situation is at, but who knows - we just end up scratching around for information and taking shots in the dark with our conspiracy theories because nobody wants to come out with what the situation actually is.

Hopeful something can be achieved, but I’m not holding my breath…

We just need to keep pushing and something will come of it 🖖🏽

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Posted (edited)

@LogiUK - thank you for that.

Are you able to elaborate on these Microsoft limitations a 3rd party peripheral maker faces?

You spoke on another post about the standard SDK (“Legacy Force Feedback”) being adhered to control the standard inputs and anything above that needing to be developed by the peripheral maker (I assume this is the “limitation”); do Microsoft provide guidance on how to acheive additional inputs this within a set construct that they define or is it a collaborative process between the peripheral maker and Microsoft? I.e. are the inputs above that of a standard controller already defined on the Microsoft side and the peripheral maker develops their software to “talk” with that, or does the peripheral maker also need to develop these “additional inputs” to sit on the Xbox platform (possibly in collaboration with Microsoft)?

Any insight you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Edited by Monzie83
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, LogiUK said:

Anything new is classed as "vendor-defined" so it has to be defined by the peripheral maker, with an SDK then provided to the game developer so they know how to talk to the additional features.  We provide a Trueforce SDK to developers for each platform (PC, Xbox and PlayStation) that they use to talk to the G923.

@LogiUK - Thank you for your comment.

Sorry to be a pain - please bear with me as I’m trying to understand and I have some more questions.

If I understand your comment correctly, it is up the the peripheral maker to define (and make the software for) the additional inputs they want on the Xbox side, as Microsoft do not have additional inputs pre-defined in the Xbox code.

Fair enough - do Microsoft provide guidelines/ instructions about how a peripheral maker should go about doing that (depending on the types of inputs required) and leave them to it, or is it some kind of collaborative process to develop that software together - I’m guessing the former?

I guess then, that once that software is created, there’s a process for Microsoft to OK this software. If not OK’d there’s a bit of revision to the software/ back and forth between the peripheral maker and Microsoft etc etc.

So once OK’d, do Microsoft implement that code onto the Xbox platform, or does the wheel maker put this software into the wheel firmware - I’m guessing it’s the latter?

Fully understand once the SDK is created and approved, it needs to be given to the game developer so that can incorporate it into the game to support the device.

I really appreciate your inputs on this (as I’m sure others do also)!

Edited by Monzie83
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, LogiUK said:

The game developers have to integrate our code into their game, which is the same as the way things already happen on PlayStation.

@LogiUK Interesting - thank you.

I think I understand now -  the standard Xbox SDK (“Legacy Force Feedback”) covers all the standard inputs, and the additional input mapping only exists between the game and the device as it were - the additional inputs do not need to exist (and therefore do not need to be mapped or created) between the device and console as they’re not required there and core functionality (d-pad, enter, back, options buttons etc) are already covered by the standard SDK. The additional inputs are simply “passed through” the console to the game.

I guess then Microsoft have no input/ dominion over that as it’s between the peripheral maker and game dev - interesting then Fanatec are saying the issue is with Microsoft limitations 🤔

Does anyone else read this differently?

Edited by Monzie83
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13 minutes ago, Monzie83 said:

@LogiUK Interesting - thank you.

I think I understand now -  the standard Xbox SDK (“Legacy Force Feedback”) covers all the standard inputs, and the additional input mapping only exists between the game and the device as it were - the additional inputs do not need to exist and therefore mapped or created between the device and console as they’re not required there and core functionality (d-pad, enter, back, options buttons etc) are already covered by the standard SDK.

I guess then Microsoft have no input/ dominion over that as it’s between the peripheral maker and game dev - interesting then Fanatec are saying the issue is with Microsoft limitations 🤔

Does anyone else read this differently?

While all this information is interesting to speculate about, I think at the end of the day, the question that really matters is: who do we need to contact to voice our concerns, and how do we go about doing so in the most effective manner possible? 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, TrippulG said:

While all this information is interesting to speculate about, I think at the end of the day, the question that really matters is: who do we need to contact to voice our concerns, and how do we go about doing so in the most effective manner possible? 

@TrippulG I understand your frustration.

Believe me when I say I’ve fought for a solid 6 months with all those potentially at fault (no doubt you’ll seen my numerous posts on the Fanatec, Microsoft and CodeMaster forums, as well as direct communications with Fanatec and Microsoft). I spent money to buy ACC for the guy I sold my G923 to so I could provide video proof to Fanatec extra inputs could be achieved because they didn’t believe me. Others have been fighting this for years.

I’m not sure how long the issue has effected you and what avenues you’ve tried - what I’ve quickly found was the lack of understanding on this subject in the consumer base makes us collectively toothless - this grey area is being exploited by those culpable, as we can’t target the right parties with the right questions and requests.

We can scream at them all till we’re blue in the face (as we have done), but that has got us nowhere so far and they will continue to fob us off with semi-plausible answers for how they’re not responsible and we just get nowhere because we can’t counter the people at fault - this lack of knowledge is why they’ve been able to get away with it for ages. 

You're welcome to join the effort to try to get this resolved without this information, but you’ll be doing what so many others before you have done without it: get nowhere fast and feel frustrated.

In my mind this is getting this information and putting it out there is the highest priority - because we don’t know who is supposed to do what, so we don’t know who to target. Because then, even as individuals, we can nullify their excuses because we are coming at them from a place of knowledge.

Full disclosure, this issue doesn’t even effect me anymore as I’m now on PS (a mate gifted me his PS4 as he’s on PS5), but I don’t understand why it couldn’t be achieved and feel sure I’ve been lied to (as I’m sure many do) - as such I want to help get a resolution.

The other thing I’ve noticed is the community needs someone to get behind as we’re all operating independently. While I am less motivated to “lead the charge” as I once was and have been doing for the reasons above, I still keep an eye on it and contribute where I can.

One of the next steps could be some kind of petition to Microsoft (which if they are to blame as Fanatec say, Fanatec should lead this but won’t) - I know a large part of the community will back it.

Although if my last comment on this thread is true, maybe it’s Fanatec we need to petition… And that’s the point - we just don’t know who to target.

Without this information, we aren’t having an effect as individuals, but collectively we might be able to achieve something - is this something you can pick up?

Edited by Monzie83
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11 hours ago, Monzie83 said:

@TrippulG

Without this information, we aren’t having an effect as individuals, but collectively we might be able to achieve something - is this something you can pick up?

I mean, I'm happy to write an email or two to whoever, but I don't know that I'm the person who should be spearheading something like this. Has anyone looked into or thought about starting some sort of online petition (e.g. change.org) that gamers could get behind? It feels like that might be what's needed now - some sort of unified directive that those affected can all rally behind, instead of the scattershot approach of random emails, forum posts, etc. that, although they've helped reveal some of the details of what exactly is going on, haven't been successful in bringing about any kind of a meaningful solution. 

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